One word. Saturation. GM has too many dealers in any area.

 

Too many different brands and too many models within those. No suprise GM is now looking to sell off or get rid of some of those.

 

Perception and price, not to mention those stats are incredibly misleading. You can't count Hummer, Cadillac, Buick and GMC dealers since they don't sell a comparable product to Toyota (I doubt many Corolla buyers cross-shop the H1). Figure only Chevy, Saturn and Pontiac dealers as legitimate competitors to Toyota, and the number probably falls to around 3,000.

DETROIT -- After years of sterling reliability, Toyota is showing cracks in its armor, according to data 08_camry_se_210 from Consumer Reports’ 2007 Annual Car Reliability Survey revealed Tuesday before the Automotive Press Association in Detroit.

By contrast, Ford’s domestic brands have made considerable improvements. Consumer Reports said 93 percent of Ford, Lincoln, Mercury models in the survey scored average or better.

“Ford continues to improve,” said David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports’ Auto Test Center. “The reliability of their cars has steadily improved over the years, and is showing consistency.”

He added, “We believe Toyota is aware of its issues and is trying to fix problems quickly.”

Despite the problems, Toyota (including Lexus and Scion) still ranks 3rd in reliability among all automakers, behind only Honda and Subaru.

Toyota’s Quality Cracks Revealed

Considered by many to be the bible on product quality, Consumer Reports said the V6 version of the top-selling Toyota Camry and the four-wheel-drive V8 version of the Tundra pickup, both redesigned for 2007, now rate below average in Consumer Reports’ predicted reliability rating. The all-wheel-drive version of the Lexus GS sedan also received a below-average rating.

Because Consumer Reports does not recommend models with below-average reliability, these models no longer make the magazine's “Recommended” list.

The four-cylinder and hybrid versions of the Camry and rear-drive version of the GS scored above average in reliability and will continue to with their Recommended rating.

No More Automatic Recommendations for Toyota

Because of its findings, Consumer Reports will no longer recommend any new or redesigned Toyota-built models without reliability data on a specific design. Previously, new and redesigned Toyota models were recommended because of the automaker’s excellent track record, even if the publication didn’t have sufficient reliability data on the new model. If Toyota returns to its previous record of outstanding overall reliability, Consumer Reports said it may resume this practice.

Typically, the publication will only recommend a vehicle if the magazine has at least one year of reliability data for that specific model.

The rest is the result of the media, Consumer Report groups and Internet chatter painting Toyota as the greatest thing since sliced bread, and GM as a piece of shit. These constant threads about the subject are a perfect example of the problem.

 

How does say, the Buick Lucerne not compete with the Toyota Avalon? So if we cut out everyone except for Chevy, Saturn and Pontiac - than where does GM fall in regards to the amount of vehicles sold on a yearly basis in comparison to Toyota? That would be even more unbalanced..

GM needs to fix their overlap. They have too many vehicles that compete with themselves. Why are there Chevy trucks AND GMC trucks? Why not consolidate all the research, development and marketing dollars into either one or the other? This same question can be asked with all the GM brands.. They're spreading themselves too thin and I'm afraid companies like Cadillac will suffer as a result. I personally love the Northstar engine and would have loved to see the new "Ultra" - but they ran out of money.

Perception and price, not to mention those stats are incredibly misleading. You can't count Hummer, Cadillac, Buick and GMC dealers since they don't sell a comparable product to Toyota (I doubt many Corolla buyers cross-shop the H1). Figure only Chevy, Saturn and Pontiac dealers as legitimate competitors to Toyota, and the number probably falls to around 3,000.



The rest is the result of the media, Consumer Report groups and Internet chatter painting Toyota as the greatest thing since sliced bread, and GM as a piece of shit. These constant threads about the subject are a perfect example of the problem.

 

I think GM needs to consolidate a bit and focus more of it's R&D and marketing money on fewer initiatives...

 

See ya Hummer!

 

look at the number of Lexus Dealers vs the number of Cadillac dealers. Its scary Lexus sells so much from so few dealers

 

The sales teams are on coke. That's the only way that Lexus could push so many cars.

 

I think part of the reason GMC and Chevrolet both sell the same trucks is just due to tradition. It's been done for so long, and for the longest time it was successful, but now it's time to consolidate and it's gonna be weird to see what happens.

Maybe if Chevrolet made all of the "light duty" trucks (1500-3500) and GMC made all of the "full duty" trucks (4500-6500)?

 

I was thinking that and it could work.. Why not simply allow GMC to build all the "professional grade" vehicles and leave crossovers like the Traverse (the new Acadia) to Chevy?

 

The Ultra motor wasnt canx due to money, Sal. It was canned due to the CAFE regs. I had nearly 1MM in equipment sold based on the Ultra. No shit, the day after the CAFE regs were announced, all my orders were cancelled.

Thanks Congress....fooking fooktards.


F

 

I'm sorry to see it, but Hummers were a rampant fad to begin with, and I don't see how they can survive with what they have to offer to a limited marketplace. The H2 as it is has a place in a world that is salivating for SUVs, but it's not a practical vehicle due to the lack of cargo and interior space. Yes, it has better approach angles and more ground clearance -- but a Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade can carry a lot of people and a lot of stuff. The H3 is OK, but not good enough to survive on. With Jeep struggling as much as it is, I think Hummer is going to be done.

As far as the other brands go -- I think the most overlap is between Saturn and Chevrolet and GMC and Chevrolet. Buick and Pontiac are going to have to both be niche brands that combined provide an alternative to Chevrolet -- if they're going to survive. And no one is going to keel over dead if all the divisions don't all have the same model. The Traverse/Outlook/Acadia/Enclave insanity is the best case of this. The Enclave is a little more distinctive due to its styling, but the Acadia and Outlook are ridiculously similar, and I'm sure the Traverse will be just the same. Give it to Chevrolet and Buick and make the styling as different as possible -- DONE. I'm a little less eager to drop GMC overall, however, due to its history, and the fact that they're typically paired w/Buick-Pontiac-GMC. But, I'd kill it before I dropped Buick or Pontiac.

People are going to want either more luxury-oriented or performance-oriented cars. I'd buy a Buick over a Pontiac or a Chevrolet any day of the week. And as far as Toyota goes, they have 3 distinct brands of cars, and there are few cars more similar than a Camry and an ES. There's no reason that GM can't have 4, if they're done right.

 

As I've seen it for quite some time now, GM is overstretched by at least two, possibly three brands. First off... Hummer needs to go for the sole purpose that they never should have been brought into existence in the first place. Second, I see Pontiac as a largely irrelevant brand for two reasons - Chevy and Saturn. If Saturn had remained true to its original purpose there wouldn't be as much overlap, but since GM has continuously moved Saturn upmarket, there's absolutely nothing that Pontiac produces that can't be covered by the other two. Finally, there's GMC.... in and of itself, I don't have a problem with GMC, merely what GM does with it. I've felt for a long time that GMC should be GM's sole truck division and that there shouldn't be any Chevy counterparts.... They need to make all of there trucks under one division - preferably GMC, if not they need to axe the division and just produce Chevy trucks.

Also... as far as Buick goes, I think they have a far more relevant "raison d'etre" than Pontiac. GM needs a premium American brand, especially in light of the direction they've been taking Cadillac. There has only been one time when Buick's existence was rightfully called into question and that was when both they and Oldsmobile were in production. Regardless as to whether it was the right decision or not, they chose to keep Buick... so now the argument is fairly moot.

 

Don't forget about Toyota owning Oldsmobile's name...

Saturn for the economy buyers, Chevy for the every day worker/fleet, GMC for the luxury / hard working truck, Buick for the people that want something nice, but don't want the glitzy brands, Cadillac for the American Luxury segment, Pontiac for the sport enthusiast market.

If anything needs to be ditched, it should be Hummer. GMC could easily take over their product line.

 

Toyota owning Oldsmobile's name was an April Fool's Day joke..

 

Hummer should embrace the fact that they are a Fad brand and go with it.

New Lineup could be ALL Hybrid or Diesel or Both. Have a variation of the Volt, hybrid H2, Diesel Hybrid H3.

"Hummer----Whats Cool Right Now"

 

I don't really see how this 'over-lap' is necessarily a bad thing though. I mean, the company is GM, not Chevrolet, Cadillac, Pontaic, GMC, etc. If you combine the sales of the Silverado and Sierra, they are the most popular truck in sales figures. If you want a Silverado with a nicer dash and seats, you have the Sierra. You also pay a bit more, but either way GM gets the money. It's not like (or maybe it is?) people go "Well the Cobalt and G5 are so close, I can't make up my mind, lemme go buy a Civic.'

I agree 100% with what Tony said. Just the sheer hype behind the foreign name plates is enough to cause people to drive 2 hours to a Toyota dealer. Crazy...

 

Also GMC is usually combined with other dealerships giving Pontiac and Buick dealers a truck line to sell that they otherwise would not have.

 

Brand overlap and model confusion was what prompted Alfred Sloan to reorganize GM into the stairstep hierarchy that served it so well and that Roger Smith destroyed. For it's own good, GM needs to undo the idiot Smith's damage. Here's how:

GMC: All trucks, buses, etc.

Chevy: All economy and basic transportation CARS. All cars, no more trucks.

Pontiac: Sport and performace cars. Or, kill it, and allow Chevy to have sport and performace variants of its models. I doubt many would mourn Pontiac's passing.

Saturn (aka Oldsmobile): Solid, upscale near-luxury cars with sport car performance. What Oldsmobile could have been if GM hadn't let the marque die of willful neglect.

Buick: Luxury and performace in the American style at a near-luxury price. No model should overlap with either Saturn or Cadillac.

Cadillac: International-class luxury that spares nothing but price. Should always be priced at least 10% below top-line competitors. All Cadillacs will be cars, no more trucks or truck-based models.

Sell Saab. Kill Hummer.

Dealers: Chevy, Saturn, and GMC together. Buick pairs with Pontiac. Cadillac stands alone. No more than one of any such dealer in a 25 mile radius. Consider company ownership of sales outlets and elimination of franchising.

Pricing: Division pricing will meet but never overlap. Prices and production will be set so that rebates and incentives are eliminated. Production should always be about 5% below projected demand to stabilize prices and resale value.

These few steps would go a long way toward righting GM's North American operations.

 

Not a bad plan, but I would have Saturn only carry those cars that GM makes in Europe (Opel, Vauxhall) that wouldn't sell under another brand. Leave the sport and performance to Pontiac. Further differentiate Buick and Cadillac (they should have NO models in common.)

Do the split with the GMC/Chevy trucks, GMC gets the heavy trucks, Chevy gets the light ones. That eliminates most of the GMC dealers.

And weed out the crap dealers! That alone would chop the dealer list by 2/3rds. Be ruthless: ALL the bad dealers go even if that leaves an area without any dealerships. Then open a new one, under different ownership.

 

Post 1 has me a bit confused.

Why does the number of dealers control how many units a car company can sell?

If people want the cars they'll drive to where they are to buy them.
I don't know of any regulation that dictates how many cars a location can sell.

You could have 40,000 dealers sell 2 cars each and 200 dealers that sell 2,000 cars each right?
My useless statistics point out pretty well how useless the original statistics are... at least I think they do :lol:

 

Well the point of the matter was that it's just so much easier for the public to access a GM dealer than it is a Toyota one.

 

If dealerships cost money, than Toyota is doing something right by selling just as many cars with only a small percentage of dealerships. If GM had the same amount of dealerships, and sold the same amount of cars - wouldn't they be making more profit?

 

The unions make sure that won't happen.
:lol:

 

I have said it before and I will say it again, skipping everyone else said in this thread.
So here goes...
GM sales break down like this. 40% US 60% everywhere else.
Buick is the top selling car in China. It is going to be the largest market for cars in the next 5 to 7 years. If you are GM you MAYBE don't sell Buicks in the US, but you do keep it around closing Buick would KILL GM in China.
Maybe you get rid of Saturn becuase it dosen't sell well compared to the rest of the brands, or maybe Pontiac.

Back to your regularly thread.

 

TOKYO - A Japanese labor bureau has ruled that one of Toyota's top car engineers died from working too many hours, the latest in a string of such findings in a nation where extraordinarily long hours for some employees has long been the norm.

The man who died was aged 45 and had been under severe pressure as the lead engineer in developing a hybrid version of Toyota's blockbuster Camry line, said Mikio Mizuno, the lawyer representing his wife. The man's identity is being withheld at the request of his family, who continue to live in Toyota City where the company is based.

In the two months up to his death, the man averaged more than 80 hours of overtime per month, according to Mizuno.

He regularly worked nights and weekends, was frequently sent abroad and was grappling with shipping a model for the pivotal North American International Auto Show in Detroit when he died of ischemic heart disease in January 2006. The man's daughter found his body at their home the day before he was to leave for the United States.

The ruling was handed down June 30 and will allow his family to collect benefits from his work insurance, Mizuno said.

An officer at the Aichi Labor Bureau on Wednesday confirmed the ruling, but declined to comment on the record.

In a statement, Toyota Motor Corp. offered its condolences and said it would work to improve monitoring of the health of its workers.

There is an effort in Japan to cut down on deaths from overwork, known as "karoshi." Such deaths have steadily increased since the Health Ministry first recognized the phenomenon in 1987.

Last year, a court in central Japan ordered the government to pay compensation to Hiroko Uchino, the wife of a Toyota employee who collapsed at work and died at age 30 in 2002. She took the case to court after her application to the local labor bureau for compensation was rejected.


US AMERICAN WORKERS ARE TOO DAMN LAZY!!!! maybe if we put more hours in we could become higher up on the scale!

 

These Japanese companies are going to have to start treating their workers better.. That, however, doesn't sound like something that would hurt them in the long run. If their employees are happy, they'll probably build better products. This could explain the recent drop in Toyota quality...

 

I cannot for the love of me understand why the Chinese love Buicks so much. When was the last time you saw an Asian driving a Buick over here????

 

Check out the lineup of Buicks the Chinese get and you'll see why... We should be getting that goddamn Park Avenue over here, not just in China.