[shchow]

If the next V remains under $90k loaded, I'm in.
I just hope they don't do what Nissan did with the GT-R and jump up over $100k.
If so, I see AMG in my future...

 

[RaVeNous]

You have to remember, AWD cars of today don't lose much of that RWD feel, becuase most of the time in a performance platform there is more power going there anyway. The V3 would be killer in an AWD manaul. Killer. The manual option would set it apart from other sport sedan AWD options as well. I don't regret getting the A6 at all, and would have been fine with either option, but one thing that's nice about the auto in our V2 is not worrying as much about traction. With the AWD and manual, particularly with some kind of launch control, it would just be....killer.

Loaded I don't think the V3 will be much if any under $90,000. Fully loaded the Vsport I think is more than the V2 - $76-78,000, I'm not sure the pricing has been fully released.

Yes at 90k, barring any severe depreciation, on a 1-3 year old car, I'd be looking at an AMG 4 Matic as well.

 

[V-Horse]

The next V is not going to have AWD no matter what we think so keep on dreaming if that's what you want...

 

[RGaret]

If the next V remains under $90k loaded, I'm in.
I just hope they don't do what Nissan did with the GT-R and jump up over $100k.
If so, I see AMG in my future...

At $90k they had better offer tons of incentives. I got my current V2 for $10k less than sticker so if that holds up, I'm in.

 

[Xaqtly]

Well it's not like AWD is an inconceivable concept, CTSes have had an AWD option for a while now, and here's how it would help the CTS-V:

The new 2014 E63 AMG S 4matic wagon can do an easy 11.7 @ 120 MPH, which is faster than the CTS-V. It also does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds which is obviously faster than the CTS-V, but here's the kicker: The new E63 wagon gained a bunch of weight, and now it weighs 4703 lbs. Its HP rating is 577, which gives it a power to weight ratio of 8.2 lbs per HP. The current CTS-V wagon weighs 4400 lbs and has 556 HP, which gives it a power to weight ratio of 7.9 lbs per HP, which means the V2 CTS-V actually has a better power to weight ratio than the new E63.

So try to imagine what AWD could do for the current CTS-V, never mind the V3 which will probably be lighter and have 600+ HP. Performance numbers aren't everything, but I'm just using it as an example to show how much of a difference having traction actually makes. The C7 is an even better example, with 3298 lbs and 460 HP its power to weight ratio is 7.2 lbs per HP but it's only doing 12 flat in testing @ 117 or so, and I'm guessing that's because of the same problem the CTS-V has - lots of power and torque, and 285mm tires on the rear.

Even if it's not AWD, the next V needs something to solve the traction issues, I just think AWD is a good way to go because it offers more benefit than just being able to leave a stop light quickly.

 

[MacBuster]

AWD drive is optional on the E63 in some markets....

 

[Guy.Seminerio]

Awd is the only way you can get the new e63 in the us. I think that's what made folks wonder if the next cts-v would follow suit.

 

[JFJr]

Again, AWD should be an option, if it doesn't interfere with all around performance superiority, but let's quit following and be leaders. We have a winning formula and shouldn't stray from it.

Jud

 

[Guy.Seminerio]

We can only hope. "Historically" Cadillac hasn't been known to be very good at offering very many different combinations of transmissions and driven wheels. See the CTS and even the ATS. We shall see.

----------

You can only get a manual with 1 of the 3 engines in the ats, and you have to go RWD to get it.

 

[MEDISIN]

My last car was a Subaru STi with AWD, and that car is faster than the CTS-V around the nurburgring.

Modified??

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The new E63 wagon gained a bunch of weight, and now it weighs 4703 lbs. Its HP rating is 577, which gives it a power to weight ratio of 8.2 lbs per HP. The current CTS-V wagon weighs 4400 lbs and has 556 HP, which gives it a power to weight ratio of 7.9 lbs per HP, which means the V2 CTS-V actually has a better power to weight ratio than the new E63.

The power to weight ratio is likely better than 8.2lbs. The 5.5L TT V8 is making ~ 610HP which puts it around 7.7lbs per HP.

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=679580

But as you said, the AWD simply magnifies that advantage.

 

[Jinx]

Can you get a CTS Vsport with AWD?
Can you get a BMW M5 with AWD?

Those are your leading indicators.

Yeah, AWD sells in the frozen north, but Cadillac will Vsport a SRX and point you to the XTS Vsport and call it a day.

 

[Guy.Seminerio]

No they won't. The v sport not having awd will change. It's just an other example of GM not having it ready. I would bet good money that the cts v sport will have RWD. M5? I think everyone was blind sided by mb. I think you will see it in the future. If GM has your mind state they'll just be following BMW some more because m5 will eventually offer awd. These automakers are missing out on more sales than you think by not offering these performance oriented variants of these sedans in awd.

I love nothing more than RWD but I am from NYC and ill be moving back in less than a year so awd means something to me.

Cadillac pointing you to srx and xts v sport and calling it a day is the old way of thinking at GM.

If GM had the $$ you'd have an awd cts v sport already.

 

[Zhariak]

In for my 2 cents....

With my love for my Cadillac's, I plan on holding on to my 13 V-Coupe (love the manual transmission and RWD), however wouldn't mind picking up a 3rd Gen V as well if it had these.

I want:

-To stay with a coupe
-Over 630HP
-AWD
-Dual clutch high performance transmission with paddle shifters
-Digital dash/tac, but a high def, clear, crisp one that is responsive, and doesn't have an "old" look to it
-Information on vehicle stats/status available on the NAV display
-And of course new BAD ass styling... Every time I go out for lunch/dinner, and walk outside for a cigarette, I'm in awe of my car, Mwhahaha I love it! Always attracts a few people who look inside at the interior/setup.


Things I know we'll get that I want changed:

-Don't care about CUE, but wish we could have real buttons (not haptic feedback touch buttons). Choice to use the screen, or "real" buttons would be awesome!
-I hope it has the same Caddillac logo as the 13 V coupe, I don't want that "new" Cadillac logo that I was reading about in other threads

Pointless things which could be "cool":

-Function to keep the rear view cam on in a competitive or sport mode for the track
-Driver preferences get saved (competitive mode, suspension modes) when the vehicle is turned off/on. Or a single switch inside the vehicle that by switching it once, changes the suspension, traction, and seat configuration.... When I feel like driving hard, I like the seat to hug more then when I'm just chilling, single switch to change all these would be rad!


I know the tranny, power, and AWD will cost $$$. But let's say Cadillac did this right, and I mean really right, I wouldn't mind dishing out $120,000 for that!

 

[Stop&Turnfreak]

As someone who has owned several AWD track cars (4 Evos) and 'borrowed' a buddies GTR one summer while he was doing his stent overseas, I wanted to chime in. AWD would be GREAT, but know, you will create alot of potential problems at our power level, unless they really over engineer the system. Clutches, T-cases, and other components will shatter when things get harsh, especially if you have a good tire / suspension package on the car. For any track car I built that had more than 500whp, I had to modify the clutch and t-case, or I would have heat and stability issues. Launching an AWD car is VERY hard on the driveline, and I would suspect the tranny would also need alot of reworking. But, greater than all of this would be weight and the AWD tech required to make the system work well. I am simply not sure that GM has the back ground to do a system like MB, Nissan, or Audi, which have good reliable systems, that work very well, and have intelligence to only act when required, rather than a simple system like the first gen evos had. And the weight would push this car to stellar territory. My Evos at race weight with manual transmissions were ~3200 with me in the car (200lb), and my Evo MR w/ auto was ~3750. I like the way our cars feel now, and woudl miss the 'raw' driving impression it gives, BUT if GM could make the car lighter and build a system that had the intelligence of the GTR or Audi, then I may reconsider, and deal with the weight.

 

[Xaqtly]

Can you get a CTS Vsport with AWD?
Can you get a BMW M5 with AWD?

Those are your leading indicators.

Can you get an E63 AMG wagon with AWD? Can you get an RS6 Avant with AWD? Can you get an Aventador with AWD? Can you get a GT-R with AWD? Those are your leading indicators. If you can prove how AWD hampers performance in those cars, that will be the end of the discussion.

Modified??

No, and that's the point. The STi is not faster than the CTS-V by a long shot - but its handling and precision is superior, and its AWD system allows it to rip through corners considerably faster than the CTS-V can. This is one of the ways an AWD system would benefit the CTS-V, in addition to the obvious traction benefits.

The power to weight ratio is likely better than 8.2lbs.

I see what you're saying, but I'm going with the published HP numbers in both cases.

 

[RaVeNous]

Show me the stock STI time that beats the 2009 CTS-V.

2011 - not stock

http://www.worldcarfans.com/113050757368/revolution-tuned-sti-breaks-nurburgring-record-for-a-subaru

2011 by a professional race car driver...interstingly enough the same time as the above modified car.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2011-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti-sets-nrburgring-lap-record


There are some EVO times that are better, but I'm not sure if they are stock or special tuner editions or what. I get your point regardless. I would hardly car a Subaru STI a performance sedan....just because it has 4 doors... Its a compact car. Its lighter weight, and significantly physically smaller. I would imagine its more agile. Is is really supposed to compete with E Class, Audi, 3-5 series etc... They are freaking small ass cars - I looked at getting one.

 

[MPNX2]

Looks like they are offering the XTS VSport with AWD...

http://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/xts/2014/road-test.html

 

[RippyPartsDept]

XTS VSport is only available as AWD

 

[edsuski]

XTS VSport is only available as AWD

This was the whole idea behind this subject. Could GM get the AWD system to handle the added power of the V3? The XTS VSport is putting out 410 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque. AWD has so many benefits and the current platform will easily accommodate 600 - 700 hp, so adding enough power to compensate for the added weight of an AWD system (in the V3) should be easily possible for the manufacturer.

As for the "suggestion" that GM may not be able to “do it right” - I take exception. The entire V2 program was proof that GM engineers can produce world class luxury sports cars. Now simply challenging them to do this again, with an AWD platform that allowed the driver to put the available power to the ground, would just be another example of GM's engineering prowess. The CTS-V proved that GM does not have to worry about counting every penny and cutting every corner to make a platform a success. GM has some of the BEST automotive engineers on this planet! Bar none! Throw down the challenge to them and say - "make it the best AWD system on the market". Would that be difficult – sure, but keep in mind that GM has a long history of innovating. It is not like they would be starting from zero. There are plenty of good examples of AWD systems that work in sports cars. I think they could surprise the automotive world once again.

We just need to stop complaining about paying people living wages and retiree benefits and build a car that people will pay a couple of thousand dollars more for. I would gladly pay even $10K more for my V2 today - than I did in 2008/2009. It is just that good a vehicle! Straight from Detroit!

 

[MEDISIN]

Show me the stock STI time that beats the 2009 CTS-V.

2011 - not stock

http://www.worldcarfans.com/113050757368/revolution-tuned-sti-breaks-nurburgring-record-for-a-subaru

2011 by a professional race car driver...interstingly enough the same time as the above modified car.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2011-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti-sets-nrburgring-lap-record

The one reported in C&D wasn't a production car either.

"The stickler is that the Subaru in question wasn’t a production car. It was, in the words of the company, a 2011 Impreza WRX STI prototype. The car is basically the bastard child of two JDM-only models with some extra bespoke aero bits thrown in for slipperiness and high-speed stability.

The car starts with the suspension from the improved-for-2011 WRX STI—it’s 5 mm lower than the 2010 model, with 1-mm-thicker front and rear anti-roll bars, higher-rate springs all around, stiffer rear-subframe bushings, and new front-suspension pillow-ball bushings. The engine is the Japanese-market STI spec.c’s, a 2.0-liter turbocharged boxer-four that’s been given the larger turbo from the R205, another Japanese special-edition STI model. It’s now putting out a claimed 320 hp, which makes the time that much more impressive when compared with the Panamera’s 500 turbocharged ponies (although the Porsche is surely carrying around a few hundred extra pounds). The R205 also donates six-piston front brakes and a front strut-tower brace; it features a flexible center portion that allows vertical motion but maintains lateral stiffness. Weight is saved through the use of an aluminum hood from the spec.c, unique aluminum front fenders, the spec.c’s smaller battery, and the deletion of the radio as in the R205 and spec.c. Extra aero parts specific to this car include a full undertray, a front-lip extension tacked onto the R205’s lower spoiler, and a Gurney flap added—taped, really—to the rear at Mäkinen’s request. (The car was getting a bit out of shape without it in the high-speed sections.) A full roll cage and race buckets fitted with a five-point harness for the driver and a four-point for the passenger make things safe."

----------

I'm not convinced the V3 must have AWD to compete, especially on the track. Look what the C7 did to the GTR.

http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test1.html

The GTR has more power, AWD and costs $47,000 more but is still slower around Streets of Willow than the RWD C7.