Catless down pipes with the crossover and stock everything else sounds great.

I am thinking of TIGing up a 4 or 5 inch oval to replace the midipe from where the exhaust transitions to the center tunnel. I hear a R35 GTR with a 4 inch oval mipe and stock everything else and it sounded deep, no rasp. Different car but similar set up.

ZZP stuff looks cool but all the other aftermarket mufflers I have seen and heard just don't do it for me so I am skeptical.



Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

 

Catless down pipes with the crossover and stock everything else sounds great.

I am thinking of TIGing up a 4 or 5 inch oval to replace the midipe from where the exhaust transitions to the center tunnel. I hear a R35 GTR with a 4 inch oval mipe and stock everything else and it sounded deep, no rasp. Different car but similar set up.

ZZP stuff looks cool but all the other aftermarket mufflers I have seen and heard just don't do it for me so I am skeptical.

Agreed... While the WOT video sounds great, it's the light throttle sound and volume level with the valves closed that the aftermarket exhausts seem to have a problem with, and there's none of that in the video.

The large factory muffler basically has 2 large helmholtz resonators inside with the valves closed which keeps things nice and quiet, and aftermarket systems with 2 smaller mufflers just aren't good enough IMO to keep things pleasant at cruise on the freeway. The factory muffler is also straight through with the valves open, so it's really not a restriction.

Of all the exhausts I've tried, the high flow cats with the added H and the factory catback is still my favorite all around combo. I wish it were a little louder at WOT but that's about it. The AFE catback sounded fantastic at WOT (favorite of all I've tried) but was just too loud all the time, even with the valves closed, and the boomy resonance at freeway speeds was enough to give you a headache.

It's nice to see another option out there, and hopefully they did everything right. I'm looking forward to some in car "normal driving" videos of the ZZP system as well as some actual reviews.

 

They havent released the exhaust yet. The model in the video doesnt have valves but the final model will. It will be some time before there are owner videos.

 

They havent released the exhaust yet. The model in the video doesn't have valves but the final model will. It will be some time before there are owner videos.

I figured it wasn't ready to ship yet since that was just a teaser video. The sound level and tone at WOT in that video sounds really, really good, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed they design it so it's nice and quiet at cruise with the valves closed.

Anyone heard the Rennick or Black Market Racing Oval mid pipe on a V yet?

I've heard a Renick resonated oval midpipe paired with the factory muffler and open downpipes (with no H crossover in the downpipes) and it sounded like crap at WOT, it was a nasty raspy mess. Not quite as raspy as the factory full catback with open downpipes with no H, but still terrible sounding IMO. The owner sold the car before adding an H to the downpipes so I never got to hear it in that configuration.

My hunch is an oval midsection would be more effective at toning things down on an aftermarket exhaust with 2 smaller mufflers, the large factory muffler kind of acts as a mixing chamber by itself-- although it's located all the way back at the car where the exhaust has already cooled somewhat and lost some energy. As adding an H in the downpipes has proven when it comes to mitigating rasp, equalizing the pulses as close to the turbos as possible seems to have the greatest effect.

Another thing I've been wondering is how the factory catback sound might change if the X was moved as far forward as possible up near the transmission (like the Borla system) compared to how far back the X sits in the factory setup. Or, leave the factory rear X pipe in place and add another X as far forward as possible (similar to a Corsa double helix system.)

Messing with a forward mounted single X, double X, and oval midsection configurations would be a fun science project if I had another factory exhaust to cut up and experiment with... but I'm not hacking mine up.

FYI, here's a cutaway of the stock muffler. Wish I had pictures of the baffle partitions to see what configuration and size the pass through cutouts are. The multi-chamber flowpath the exhaust takes with the valves closed is part of the reason the factory muffler is so quiet with the valves closed. Can't incorporate this kind of a design into an aftermarket exhaust that uses 2 smaller separate mufflers.

Be very interesting to see ZZP's final product, although it's really just going to be for additional sound and not really needed for performance... The factory catback seems to be working OK for high 9s at 135+.

 

Anyone heard the Rennick or Black Market Racing Oval mid pipe on a V yet?

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

 

I have that setup- Tapout DPs with Renick mid and stock axle-back. First iteration was with Renick DPs, before they came with an H-pipe. Sounded awful, literally embarrassing until about 4K at WOT, then it sounded pretty good. I sorted out much of the rasp with ZZP catted DPs, but it was still there to a degree. Adding the Tapout DPs with the built-in H-pipe perfected the sound. At this point I wouldn't change anything, it's perfect to my ears, well, as perfect as an ATS-V can sound. A GTR it is not lol.

 

My gut feeling after hearing the results of adding an H in the downpipes as close to the turbos as possible is that the H in the downpipes does 90% of the work of smoothing things out, since it has the largest effect on rasp-- and once you've added that H in the downpipes, changing the midsection to a double-X or full oval configuration is only going to make a small difference in sound.

I could be totally wrong through.

If I had a second factory exhaust system I would first try the double-X and then cut out the entire midsection and replace it with 4.5 oval and compare the two configurations-- but I don't want to hack up my factory system.

FYI, a 4" oval (2.625 x 4.625) has 10% less cross sectional area than the twin 2.75" factory tubes (ignoring the slightly crimped area of the factory midsection near the X pipe, can't figure out why they did that as it's certainly not needed for clearance.) A 4.5" oval (3 x 5.125) is about 10% more cross sectional area than the twin 2.75" tubes. A 5" oval (3.375 x 5.875) is starting to get too tall IMO and you're going to have fun getting it to clear the chassis brace near the back of the tunnel without contacting the heat shield above it. You may have to modify that heat shield a bit anyways since it has "double hump" reliefs stamped into it for the factory twin pipes-- the oval may hit the protrusion in the middle.

 

My gut feeling after hearing the results of adding an H in the downpipes as close to the turbos as possible is that the H in the downpipes does 90% of the work of smoothing things out, since it has the largest effect on rasp-- and once you've added that H in the downpipes, changing the midsection to a double-X or full oval configuration is only going to make a small difference in sound.

I could be totally wrong through. [emoji23]

If I had a second factory exhaust system I would first try the double-X and then cut out the entire midsection and replace it with 4.5 oval and compare the two configurations-- but I don't want to hack up my factory system.

FYI, a 4" oval (2.625 x 4.625) has 10% less cross sectional area than the twin 2.75" factory tubes (ignoring the slightly crimped area of the factory midsection near the X pipe, can't figure out why they did that as it's certainly not needed for clearance.) A 4.5" oval (3 x 5.125) is about 10% more cross sectional area than the twin 2.75" tubes. A 5" oval (3.375 x 5.875) is starting to get too tall IMO and you're going to have fun getting it to clear the chassis brace near the back of the tunnel without contacting the heat shield above it. You may have to modify that heat shield a bit anyways since it has "double hump" reliefs stamped into it for the factory twin pipes-- the oval may hit the protrusion in the middle.

Ya, the fit would be an issue if you went to 5".

Burns stainless and vibrant have some good sized oval that I could play with.

I have a few factory exhausts at work that I can hack up...could be fun.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

 

Also, Spintech makes a 5 inch oval that is 3" x 6.125", which should fit.



Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

 

The Spintech 3 x 6.125 would fit. My AFE exhaust had a dual 3" center section, with a small gap between the pipes... I'd say effective overall width through the tunnel was 6.5". The width wasn't a problem, but the height was... took a bit of messing with it to not tap either the chassis brace or the heat shield up top when going over bumps. Both were audible and annoying to hear in the car.

Nice you have a couple of factory exhausts to play with. I've thought about buying a used exhaust system as a test piece, but being it's in one piece shipping is quite expensive. Haven't found one within driving distance to pick up.

 

Hello, New to the forums, picked up my V a couple months back. In love, but looking at exhaust combos to wake my baby up. So much research my head hurts! Final conclusion as of now is ZZP's new catted H Downpipes + AFE 3" catback. I know I might be the first to try it but was wondering if anyone has related videos to this or has any feedback.

I'm sold on retaining cats + valves and this seems to be the only possible combo of the 2 without said criticism of rasp/sound. I like the idea of full 3" exhaust for performance gains (with tune), but I should probably stay put to see what this full ZZP system will look like. All mods will be as followed.

Giggs Ported throttle body
Turbosmart BOV
Magnum flow drop in filters
ZZP catted, 3" exhaust system
Spark plugs
tune (local or ZZP)

 

Hello, New to the forums, picked up my V a couple months back. In love, but looking at exhaust combos to wake my baby up. So much research my head hurts! Final conclusion as of now is ZZP's new catted H Downpipes + AFE 3" catback. I know I might be the first to try it but was wondering if anyone has related videos to this or has any feedback.

I'm sold on retaining cats + valves and this seems to be the only possible combo of the 2 without said criticism of rasp/sound. I like the idea of full 3" exhaust for performance gains (with tune), but I should probably stay put to see what this full ZZP system will look like. All mods will be as followed.

Giggs Ported throttle body
Turbosmart BOV
Magnum flow drop in filters
ZZP catted, 3" exhaust system
Spark plugs
tune (local or ZZP)

My advice is don't do the AFE exhaust if you like the volume reasonable at cruise. The valves on mine didn't seal well and didn't change the volume level between valves open and valves closed. It was terribly loud when cruising and the resonance on the freeway was terrible, bad enough to vibrate things and give you a headache.

I sold it, and the guy I sold it to put it back up for sale a while later for the same reason-- way too loud on the freeway.

Fit wasn't perfect, I had to slot the holes in the driver's side flange to get the midpipe to sit right and it was very close to the heat shield in the tunnel and the chassis brace. The borla dual 2.75 system on the other hand fit perfectly.

It sounded great at WOT though.

The stock catback is good for high 9s at 135+ so it's not holding anything back in terms of performance... Changing the exhaust is really only going to be for sound.

I would strongly suggest trying the new downpipes with the stock catback first and see how you like it. It will be louder and deeper with the downpipes and with the h in the downpipes it won't have any rasp. It will also be as quiet as stock at cruise with the valves closed.

 

Thank you for the response! You are right about getting just downpipes first and going from there, i just want to get a final configuration before tune.

I am curios if this H pipe addition to the catted DP will reduce cruise resonance/rasp as stated with the AFE exhaust or Borla. Also curios as to see what ZZP is planning on releasing. I would say this particular mod will be mostly for sound as I'm jealous when cruising with my V8 buddies, lol.

 

Thank you for the response! You are right about getting just downpipes first and going from there, i just want to get a final configuration before tune.



I am curios if this H pipe addition to the catted DP will reduce cruise resonance/rasp as stated with the AFE exhaust or Borla. Also curios as to see what ZZP is planning on releasing. I would say this particular mod will be mostly for sound as I'm jealous when cruising with my V8 buddies, lol.

I had zero rasp with the AFE high flow cats that I added an H to combined with the AFE exhaust.

No rasp with the factory catback either after adding the H.

The AFE high flow cats without the h were horribly raspy with a borla catback and had rasp from about 2200-2500rpm with the factory catback.

The h in the downpipes does a fantastic job of mitigating the rasp, I wouldn't do high flow cats without an h in the downpipes, and for open downpipes I'd want ones with resonators and the h.

 

I just wanted to share with you guys incase you haven't seen... ZZP released another video of the exhaust (without valves), and it sounds awesome! Excited for this system to be released and strongly leaning towards purchasing this when available. I am curios as to what it sounds like with the high flow cats and in an automatic if possible. I think this is the best sounding system i've heard thus far.

ZZP ATS-V Exhaust (W/Valve Delete) Teaser // ZZPerformance - YouTube

 

I just wanted to share with you guys incase you haven't seen... ZZP released another video of the exhaust (without valves), and it sounds awesome! Excited for this system to be released and strongly leaning towards purchasing this when available. I am curios as to what it sounds like with the high flow cats and in an automatic if possible. I think this is the best sounding system i've heard thus far.

ZZP ATS-V Exhaust (W/Valve Delete) Teaser // ZZPerformance - YouTube

It should be noted that the car has catless downpipes and the car will sound completely different than one with OEM units.

 

I'm curious how quiet the H-Pipe DPs are with the stock cat back and valves closed

 

ZZP just posted a new teaser pic of their upcoming exhaust on their instagram page...

First impressions:

Valves look well built.

The "straight shot" tubing path is through the mufflers... interesting. Most other manufacturers like AFE have the "straight shot" path through the pipe without the mufflers, and only direct the exhaust through the mufflers when the valves are closed.

The mufflers look awfully small... might not be all that quiet during valves closed / cruising conditions.

However, in regards to the point above... how they built the valved pipes and where they positioned the valves means those two legs will act as 1/4 wavelength resonators when the valves are closed. My AFE exhaust had a horrible drone and resonance centered around 2250rpm on the freeway-- a little bit above that and a little bit below that and it was back to pretty quiet. After doing some math I figured if I could build ~28" long 1/4 wavelength resonators it would cancel the 2250rpm drone. Based off the picture it appears ZZP has the valved legs of tubing set up to be about 28" long from the valves back to where they join the exhaust just behind the diff. So... it may actually be nice and quiet at freeway speeds provided the valves seal well.

Wonder what the midsection looks like... X-pipe? Oval? Resonators? Guess we'll see when they post more info.

Not ready to buy exhaust system #4 yet, but I'm looking forward to some first hand reviews once it's available...

 

Somebody needs to buy this exhaust and let me know if its worth the price of admission.

 

I had the same issue on my AFE exhaust with the valves not closing completely. I found the mounting brackets for the actuators were not true, and when tightening the actuators completely that would cause a bind and the valves stayed opened. I loosened the bolts until the valves would close, then tweeked the brackets until I could tighten the bolts completely. I don't have any drone, the drop in db on the highway from open to close is very noticeable.

OP did you have the earlier AFE version without the H - pipe near the axle? Mine sounds great with the factory cats, and no drone like you described. Looks like the AFE exhausts might ship more than not with jacked up actuator brackets. I did also have to work to keep the pipes off the chassis and heatshield. I have to say AFE did a fantastic job on fitment, and with tip exit alignment, it turned out really good.

 

Mine had the rear h pipe.

The valves did not fit or seal very well on my system, even with the actuators removed. The AFE valves are a very crappy design IMO being just an elliptical flap inside the tubing that relies on the outside edge of the flap wedging against the ID of the tubing when closed to do the sealing. That means the tube must be perfectly circular with a tightly controlled ID and the flap has to be cut perfectly as well, otherwise there will be gaps. My valves touched in a few spots but also left large gaps between the flaps and the tubing ID in other areas when closed, it was very poor fitment.

Compare this to the Borla design where there is a heavy duty cast valve housing with positive lips/stepped surfaces for a butterfly valve to seal tightly against-- a far better design than the AFE valve and more tolerant of manufacturing variations while still providing a very good seal.

Still interested in the ZZP system myself, but I want to hear some first person reviews of the valved version as well as see some final production pictures of the valved version. The preproduction pictures on their webpage don't show much in the way of cross bracing on the valved version between the valved and unvalved legs of the system, which has me worried about the welds cracking over time. I'm sure they addressed that in the final production version, but I'd like to see pictures before spending more money on exhaust system #4...

 

The Borla was very high on my list, but went with the larger piping of the AFE. I don't have any valve issues on mine. I'm not home right now, but I thought the way the valve design was on the AFE, was like the OEM. Valve turns to close with tight but not a complete seal. I got mine for about $950 new, and couldn't be happier. To me the options for exhaust are only OEM, AFE and Corsa(not much for the $). Hopefully zzp gets the ats-v community another option!

 

I have the Borla cat back and I'm very happy with it. The fit, finish, quality and sound are what you would expect from Borla as is the price. No drone anywhere less raspy than stock not loud a just better sound. Would buy again.

 

Just a heads up - ZZP posted a video (stationary) w/ valves open/closed here:

Will likely be pulling the trigger on this in the very near future.

 

Just a heads up - ZZP posted a video (stationary) w/ valves open/closed here:

Will likely be pulling the trigger on this in the very near future.

Yep, saw that. They also added pics to their website of the production version of the exhaust which shows all the bracing that the prototypes were lacking. The valves are heavy cast housing which is nice. One thing that still has me scratching my head is why they put the flex joints up front where the weight of the midsection from the forward most set of hangers by the diff up to the downpipe connections is going to hang entirely on the flex joints. Flex joints are normally only for taking up movement and vibration and aren't meant to support the weight of the exhaust-- usually if you have them supporting weight they fail rather quickly. The logical place for the flex joints is where they are in the factory catback, right between two hangars so the hangars support all the weight of the exhaust and the flex joints only absorb vibration and movement and don't support any weight.

I'm still tempted to try ZZP's valved exhaust, but after throwing away a bunch of money buying and reselling 3 exhausts now (buying and reselling 2 anyways, as #3 was defective right out of the box and wouldn't fit and finally got a refund after 15 months) I think I've finally learned my lesson and will wait for a few honest independent reviews before I go spending any more money on exhaust #4. I should probably spend the exhaust money on a flex fuel sensor and high volume plunger kit instead and do an ethanol tune though...

Still happy with how my car sounds with the AFE high flow cats with an added 2" H pipe and the stock catback, but a bit louder and more aggressive sounding with the valves open wouldn't be a bad thing. I'm keeping my fingers crossed ZZP finally nailed it and came out with an exhaust that really works and sounds good on these cars... and the videos seem to indicate they may have pulled it off.

 

Im really tempted in the Borla system. But my ATS-V is my commuter, and I spend about 1 hour in it each way when I head into work, that being said, I take a fair amount of calls, and with stock exhaust valve closed people on the other end cant tell im driving, when I pull the fuse on the highway everyone knows im driving... So moral of the story is I want aftermarket, but want it quieter than the stock system with the valves always open (when the aftermarket system valve is closed)....

 

I helped my neighbor install catless down pipes from Tapout on his coupe. Sounds good with the valves open, a lot of cool turbo wine. But with the valves closed, it sounds pretty much the same as stock.

 

Ok..yes all i guess I am one of the very few that got the new zzp exaust about 2 weeks ago. However because of a major car issue i have not had them put on yet.

Hopefully I will be ok thru cpo or ext warranty. I actually want to hear what they sound like on a stock car. I will share a video when I can.

It will likely be just the new zzp mufflers on sock car for a minute. I Have not decided yet.

Or, hell I may really go for it and get the catless dp from tapeout
(..can u say turbo bleed and the smell..) or use my zzp catted dp ....with a tune. In any event got a friend who gets me text ordered inspection stickers for my cars so I will at least appear legal .-.

I will decide ..give me a few weeks. I am not technically savvy when comes to mufflers so for me it will be all about the Sound.

See picks of mufflers...(sorry these are not great pics..i was lazy).

It's all a fun and games money pit..so Enjoy your life..Enjoy your car!!

 

Looking forward to your review and thoughts on it.

Fab quality looks excellent on the pieces I can see in the box.

 

Looking forward to your review and thoughts on it.

Fab quality looks excellent on the pieces I can see in the box.

New ZZP Exhaust.! Very good quality material. The tips seem bigger than I was expecting. Not sure if I will like that. I will install in the next week or so for sound clips and aesthetics.

 

Will do..

 

It has got a nice sound on open or closed valves. Quite a bit louder with open valve but nice. I run open valves always. Starting at 3rd gear or so the sound levels out nicely. If you get on it at gear 6 or so you can still hear and feel the exhaust nicely. I need to but have not did a drive by yet.

HOWEVER, my valves do not open and close properly. I had them change out the factory actuator twice for the new mufflers and the passenger valves still do not open and close properly.

Thought about going back to factory exahust but I really like the sound. Buy at your own risk. I did not send the rear section back for exchange because I did not want all the hassle that would involve.

They are not borla exhaust loud but considerably louder then factory with a quite rumble added enough for a 3.6L v6
caddy.

Watch "February 18, 2022" on YouTube

Watch "zzp exhaust tour and track mode" on YouTube

 

Thanks for posting! I saw that they updated the valve springs, do you think that made a difference to your issue or do you think that there was binding of the valve?