[NJATS-V]

I always liked that the ATS-V shared its LF4 pedigree with the ATS-V.R maybe GM should have exploited it more.

 

[justinschmidt1]

Exactly. The V 8 has readily "pre-engineered" bolt-on mods available. The V6 took a little more effort. That's all,no other reason to make my comment.

Gotcha, understand that.

The LF4 aftermarket has been coming along pretty nicely I think for such a low production car with a unique engine.

We now have fuel system upgrades and hopefully it wont be too long before we have a few options for turbo upgrades on the market.

I would like the see some options as far as upgrading the engine internally and stuff come along, I believe renick has been working on all that.

 

[tinman]

I'm pleasantly surprised at how much has been done with the various mods that are available. It's tremendous.

 

[Bullwinj]

I do get the impression GM could have gone a lot further with the LF4 but held back in the interest of both longevity and competition with it's big brother CTS-V. The 0-60 times are only .1-.2 seconds apart, depending on the source. And on a small to medium sized track the ATS is very possibly quicker overall. Bumping the power up over 500 (advertised) might have cannibalized some sales or driven costs out of the target range.

But it seems like there was a lot more potential in this engine. I never tuned my Z06 due to warranty, but I'm told it would've added as much as 45 HP. Tuning the LF4 seems to result in far greater power gains (NA vs. turbo), which usually suggests the engineers could have easily just played with boost to achieve whatever HP number they wanted.

I love V8's, but this V6 is really impressive. Once I'm out of warranty, I'm really tempted to start playing with some mods. Of course, it's really hard to find anything Cali compliant, which is where the huge market of existing LTX/LSX mods are so beneficial. Some of the LF4 aftermarket manufacturers won't even ship to Cali. Insane. I love the weather and equity, but can't stand the "leadership".

 

[justinschmidt1]

I do get the impression GM could have gone a lot further with the LF4 but held back in the interest of both longevity and competition with it's big brother CTS-V. The 0-60 times are only .1-.2 seconds apart, depending on the source. And on a small to medium sized track the ATS is very possibly quicker overall. Bumping the power up over 500 (advertised) might have cannibalized some sales or driven costs out of the target range.

But it seems like there was a lot more potential in this engine. I never tuned my Z06 due to warranty, but I'm told it would've added as much as 45 HP. Tuning the LF4 seems to result in far greater power gains (NA vs. turbo), which usually suggests the engineers could have easily just played with boost to achieve whatever HP number they wanted.

I love V8's, but this V6 is really impressive. Once I'm out of warranty, I'm really tempted to start playing with some mods. Of course, it's really hard to find anything Cali compliant, which is where the huge market of existing LTX/LSX mods are so beneficial. Some of the LF4 aftermarket manufacturers won't even ship to Cali. Insane. I love the weather and equity, but can't stand the "leadership".

Yea, its rumored that Gm even detuned the ATSV more when it was out performing its big brother.

It still seems to be under rated at "464" hp as it tends to put down 420-440 rwhp stock which means its making more like 500 crank.

The whole "18 pounds of boost" we kept hearing pre launch, it seems like even in the worst conditions possible we are limited to around 15 psi which makes me feel that GM knocked it back some late in the game.

Then you check out some of the test results, car and driver tested that ATSV at 12.1@122 mph....

They later tested the CTSV V3 at 12.0@121 mph

So the 464 hp car is trapping higher mph than the 640 hp car?

It almost seems like the car sent to car and driver was sent out previous to GM knocking the boost down.

The ATSV actually was faster 0-150 than the CTSV in that testing.

it really makes you wonder how much further GM could have went with the LF4/ATSV if the CTSV wasnt in the way.

 

[Leesrt]

I do get the impression GM could have gone a lot further with the LF4 but held back in the interest of both longevity and competition with it's big brother CTS-V. The 0-60 times are only .1-.2 seconds apart, depending on the source. And on a small to medium sized track the ATS is very possibly quicker overall. Bumping the power up over 500 (advertised) might have cannibalized some sales or driven costs out of the target range.

But it seems like there was a lot more potential in this engine. I never tuned my Z06 due to warranty, but I'm told it would've added as much as 45 HP. Tuning the LF4 seems to result in far greater power gains (NA vs. turbo), which usually suggests the engineers could have easily just played with boost to achieve whatever HP number they wanted.

I love V8's, but this V6 is really impressive. Once I'm out of warranty, I'm really tempted to start playing with some mods. Of course, it's really hard to find anything Cali compliant, which is where the huge market of existing LTX/LSX mods are so beneficial. Some of the LF4 aftermarket manufacturers won't even ship to Cali. Insane. I love the weather and equity, but can't stand the "leadership".

Yea, its rumored that Gm even detuned the ATSV more when it was out performing its big brother.

It still seems to be under rated at "464" hp as it tends to put down 420-440 rwhp stock which means its making more like 500 crank.

The whole "18 pounds of boost" we kept hearing pre launch, it seems like even in the worst conditions possible we are limited to around 15 psi which makes me feel that GM knocked it back some late in the game.

Then you check out some of the test results, car and driver tested that ATSV at 12.1@122 mph....

They later tested the CTSV V3 at 12.0@121 mph

So the 464 hp car is trapping higher mph than the 640 hp car?

It almost seems like the car sent to car and driver was sent out previous to GM knocking the boost down.

The ATSV actually was faster 0-150 than the CTSV in that testing.

it really makes you wonder how much further GM could have went with the LF4/ATSV if the CTSV wasnt in the way.

Keep in mind that the ATS is significantly lighter than the CTS, by 300lbs

 

[justinschmidt1]

Keep in mind that the ATS is significantly lighter than the CTS, by 300lbs

Im well aware, 300-400 lbs still doesnt even remotely come close to making up for almost 200 horsepower and torque though....

Tested weight from car and driver there was 4,168 lbs for the CTSV, at 640hp, that gives it 6.51 lbs per hp

The ATSV was quoted at 3,800 lbs at 464hp, that means its hauling 8.19 lbs per hp

of course, that assuming GMs figures are accurate....which based on dyno sheets for both cars, are not.

all im saying is it feels like GM sandbagged the ATSVs power figures , detuned the car, quoted power figures low, all in the name of trying to prop up the CTSV....maybe if they pushed out the ATSV with 550horsepower the car would have sold a lot more and turned a lot more heads initially cause when looking at the old V2 CTSV with 556hp and the new CTSV with 640hp, the ATSVs 464 hp seems weak on paper, despite how well they can run

maybe the over all out look of the ATSV woulldnt be "shoulda had a V8" if it didnt come with roughly the same quoted power figure as the LT1 stock

it may seem stupid, but its all about perspective...if the little twin turbo v6 was gapping the big boy CTSV from the factory I cant imagine we would hear a ton of these wish it had a v8 comments

 

[Bullwinj]

All this is what makes me want to tune the car once it's out of warranty. There seem to be plenty of tuners who are having great results. And I've only seen one or two cases where there have been engine issues, presumably due in some part to the modifications. Pretty confident GM left a lot of room to safely bump up boost without risking anything in terms of reliability. As long as I can smog the car, I'm good.

I do think the car is very well sorted as a road course car, which clearly seems to have been Cadillac's original intention. And I definitely noticed my first car at the Academy pulling boost in the heat after several hot laps. The second car they gave me was fine the rest of the weekend. So if the plan is to track the car, it's arguably better to just leave it in stock form (with high temp brake fluid and whatever else the manual says to do if tracking the car). Around town, at a drag strip, on the highway, etc., the extra boost would be really nice to have on tap. Actually, that would have been a really cool feature for GM to include; added levels of boost between Tour, Sport and Track modes, kinda like the valet key on C4 ZR1's.

 

[justinschmidt1]

All this is what makes me want to tune the car once it's out of warranty. There seem to be plenty of tuners who are having great results. And I've only seen one or two cases where there have been engine issues, presumably due in some part to the modifications. Pretty confident GM left a lot of room to safely bump up boost without risking anything in terms of reliability. As long as I can smog the car, I'm good.

I do think the car is very well sorted as a road course car, which clearly seems to have been Cadillac's original intention. And I definitely noticed my first car at the Academy pulling boost in the heat after several hot laps. The second car they gave me was fine the rest of the weekend. So if the plan is to track the car, it's arguably better to just leave it in stock form (with high temp brake fluid and whatever else the manual says to do if tracking the car). Around town, at a drag strip, on the highway, etc., the extra boost would be really nice to have on tap. Actually, that would have been a really cool feature for GM to include; added levels of boost between Tour, Sport and Track modes, kinda like the valet key on C4 ZR1's.

Yea, that would be really cool if they gave you different levels of performance from the factory almost like the red key with the hellcats.

460hp in tour, 500hp in sport, 550 in race.

I do believe these engines can handle 18-20 psi with no issues as they were designed to run up to 18 psi anyways apparently.

I havent seen or heard of any failures other than the guy that chipped a valve running lean at 150+mph but that was a tuning issue

These cars def pick up tons with a good tune.

 

[Leesrt]

All this is what makes me want to tune the car once it's out of warranty. There seem to be plenty of tuners who are having great results. And I've only seen one or two cases where there have been engine issues, presumably due in some part to the modifications. Pretty confident GM left a lot of room to safely bump up boost without risking anything in terms of reliability. As long as I can smog the car, I'm good.

I do think the car is very well sorted as a road course car, which clearly seems to have been Cadillac's original intention. And I definitely noticed my first car at the Academy pulling boost in the heat after several hot laps. The second car they gave me was fine the rest of the weekend. So if the plan is to track the car, it's arguably better to just leave it in stock form (with high temp brake fluid and whatever else the manual says to do if tracking the car). Around town, at a drag strip, on the highway, etc., the extra boost would be really nice to have on tap. Actually, that would have been a really cool feature for GM to include; added levels of boost between Tour, Sport and Track modes, kinda like the valet key on C4 ZR1's.

One thing I highly recommend anybody do before they get a tune is verify that the coolant levels for their intercooler system is full. Many cars have been found to have air pockets in the pump (cavitation). This car will definitely pull timing it's not cooling down properly. My intake manifold temps were sitting at about 150 all the time until I bled the system of all the air that was in it and backfilled it. Now, even on a hundred degree day in traffic, the highest I will see is about 135 and that drops quickly once I get back on the gas.

 

[Bullwinj]

One thing I in saticoy recommend anybody do before they get a tune is verify that the coolant levels for their intercooler system is full. Many cars have been found to have air pockets in the pump (cavitation). This car will definitely pull timing it's not cooling down properly. My intake manifold temps were sitting at about 150 all the time until I bled the system of all the air that was in it and backfilled it. Now, even on a hundred degree day in traffic, the highest I will see is about 135 and that drops quickly once I get back on the gas.

Ahh, interesting. I wonder if that's the problem my first car had at the Academy. It was noticeably slower after about 8 or 9 hot laps out there in Pahrump. A number of times the instructor was telling me to push more coming out of the turn but there was nothing left to push. The pedal was to the floor. But once I got the second car, I had a lot more to work with. Their initial guess was that I was pushing too early and the traction control was limiting it. But it happened on straights too. Anyway, good to know. I'm guessing this isn't something the factory is particularly concerned with in stock form. But 15° can make a world of difference on a boosted car.

 

[TwinTurboFan]

Ahh, interesting. I wonder if that's the problem my first car had at the Academy. It was noticeably slower after about 8 or 9 hot laps out there in Pahrump. A number of times the instructor was telling me to push more coming out of the turn but there was nothing left to push. The pedal was to the floor. But once I got the second car, I had a lot more to work with. Their initial guess was that I was pushing too early and the traction control was limiting it. But it happened on straights too. Anyway, good to know. I'm guessing this isn't something the factory is particularly concerned with in stock form. But 15° can make a world of difference on a boosted car.

Not only does the extra 15 degrees of heat reduce performance, but there are also intercooler protection tables in the ECM calibration that start reducing boost and/or closing the throttle once certain manifold air temperatures are reached. This is why we have carefully review scan data of all cars before we start turning up the boost.

 

[Renaldo1]

Since the 'lame V's' have been introduced, and the CT4-V has the 2.7L 4 cylinder Turbo, I'm hoping that when the CT4-V 'Blackwing' is introduced (the CT5-V has the 3L TT) that it has a new iteration of the LF4... maybe called the LF5 or LF6. This new variation of the High Feature/ High Performance 3.6 would have all the goodies of the LF4, but also the necessary Cylinder on Demand (reduced cylinder strategy) and the Stop/Start functions needed to meet ever increasing CAFE fuel demands.

 

[justinschmidt1]

Since the 'lame V's' have been introduced, and the CT4-V has the 2.7L 4 cylinder Turbo, I'm hoping that when the CT4-V 'Blackwing' is introduced (the CT5-V has the 3L TT) that it has a new iteration of the LF4... maybe called the LF5 or LF6. This new variation of the High Feature/ High Performance 3.6 would have all the goodies of the LF4, but also the necessary Cylinder on Demand (reduced cylinder strategy) and the Stop/Start functions needed to meet ever increasing CAFE fuel demands.

i really hope so as it would be nice to continue with this platform and hopefully continue to evolve

 

[tinman]

At least the Big Boy V will have a manual option!

 

[justinschmidt1]

At least the Big Boy V will have a manual option!

Did they announce that?

Where at?

 

[NJATS-V]

This is probably the last Hooray with Alpha 2.
My fiance was showing me Lansing Grand Assembly only runs 1 full assembly shift building ATS, CTS and Camaro so I do not see how it will be feasible to continue these cars on this platform afterwards..
He showed me CT6 is switching to a VS platform in a couple years which will be a car and cuv platform across the the Gm brand.

 

[tinman]

Did they announce that?

Where at?

http://cadillacsociety.com/2019/07/06/cadillac-v-series-will-offer-a-manual-transmission-option/

 

[LAROKE]

http://cadillacsociety.com/2019/07/06/cadillac-v-series-will-offer-a-manual-transmission-option/

That is most likely the CT5, not the "big boy" CT6 since the CT6 is all wheel drive

 

[tinman]

That is most likely the CT5, not the "big boy" CT6 since the CT6 is all wheel drive

We can only hope. After all, please remember that these cars are too much for the common driver, lol.