I just recently bought my 03 cts. It is very clean and has barely signs of wear and tear. No rust on body but the other day I was doing an oil change and saw that where the unibody is welded to the subframe is almost completely rusted out. It is exactly in the same place on both sides, right behind the front wheels when it starts to curve up. The rest of the underbody has no rust issues at all! It is past the mileage for the rust warranty. Anyone come across this or have any suggestions?? Please help!
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BEWARE OF SCAMMERS. Anyone trying to get your money should be checked out BEFORE you send anything anywhere.
CadiFTW
yeap my car is rusted pretty bad as well
no rust on the body, but under the car on sub-frames front and back rust is everywhere, specially near the cat converters. Brake lines are rusted too, I don't know what's the deal
no rust on the body, but under the car on sub-frames front and back rust is everywhere, specially near the cat converters. Brake lines are rusted too, I don't know what's the deal
Even with cars that are treated at the factory with special anti rust stuff. Will get that coating eaten away in some areas in the snow belt. It all depends on what the local government uses for their sand and salt mixture.
I know a lot of truckers are mad at the state I CT, where I live, that uses that corrosive stuff. You know what CT said? "It's up to the owner to do an underbody car wash every now and then during the winter."
KOT
I know a lot of truckers are mad at the state I CT, where I live, that uses that corrosive stuff. You know what CT said? "It's up to the owner to do an underbody car wash every now and then during the winter."
KOT
an update on my rust problem, I found out the foot wells are badly rusted as well. Almost completely rotted, planning to clean that stuff out and treat it with POR15. As for the sub frames I sprayed them with rust paint to prevent any further rusting.
Frame rust 2004 CTS-V
Well, I had a terrible weekend with my 04 CTS-V. This is the first time that I've wrenched on it since owning it for 5 months. The starter was acting up intermittently. So I got under it and discovered a problem 100x worse than the starter. The driver's side unibody frame rail towards the front of the chassis, right before it bends up, is completely rusted through. I placed the jack stands further back so as to not break through the rust when I lowered it, and gently lowering it gave me the gut-wrenching sound of a cracking, crumbling frame rail. The inside edge of the rail is just completely rust, and it buckled outwards falling apart from the load of setting the vehicle on jack stands. Unfortunately, I only have pictures of the outside and bottom of the rail, which is very bad but not anywhere near as catastrophic as the inside edge.
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This seems to be a severe design flaw in these vehicles. The rest of the underbody is completely fine, and this particular location is totally ****ed. I've found several other examples of varying severity. I even found one on this forum with someone seeing the first symptom of this major failure, at the point where he could have probably done something about it, and everyone on the forum piled on telling him that he's a wimp, and how back in their day, men were men and rust was rust. ( WTF : rust in the chasis (2009 cts-v ) ) . So let me tell you, if you see this pattern of rust forming at the front of the framerail on the driver's side, this is not you being paranoid, this is not a minor problem, and this is going to bite you in the ass if you don't have it fixed immediately. I don't know what is causing this, but it seriously sucks.
Has anyone actually had this fixed, and if so, who did you have do it (dealer, independent mechanic, body shop, diy, etc?), and how much did it cost?
Other references: Big Problem with '04 CTS
CTS frame rust????
2003 CTS 3.2L V6 Oil and Coolant leaking, Rusted frame.
Oh well, on the bright side, at least all 4 of the catalytic converter to exhaust studs sheared off when trying to remove them to get access to the starter, and now the starter will not come out, possibly because the motor mount is collapsed and interferes with pulling it out. Time to move to my more reliable and more structurally sound car, a 99 Bonneville, or my even less reliable motorcycle, a 2000 Ducati Monster.
Well, I had a terrible weekend with my 04 CTS-V. This is the first time that I've wrenched on it since owning it for 5 months. The starter was acting up intermittently. So I got under it and discovered a problem 100x worse than the starter. The driver's side unibody frame rail towards the front of the chassis, right before it bends up, is completely rusted through. I placed the jack stands further back so as to not break through the rust when I lowered it, and gently lowering it gave me the gut-wrenching sound of a cracking, crumbling frame rail. The inside edge of the rail is just completely rust, and it buckled outwards falling apart from the load of setting the vehicle on jack stands. Unfortunately, I only have pictures of the outside and bottom of the rail, which is very bad but not anywhere near as catastrophic as the inside edge.
This seems to be a severe design flaw in these vehicles. The rest of the underbody is completely fine, and this particular location is totally ****ed. I've found several other examples of varying severity. I even found one on this forum with someone seeing the first symptom of this major failure, at the point where he could have probably done something about it, and everyone on the forum piled on telling him that he's a wimp, and how back in their day, men were men and rust was rust. ( WTF : rust in the chasis (2009 cts-v ) ) . So let me tell you, if you see this pattern of rust forming at the front of the framerail on the driver's side, this is not you being paranoid, this is not a minor problem, and this is going to bite you in the ass if you don't have it fixed immediately. I don't know what is causing this, but it seriously sucks.
Has anyone actually had this fixed, and if so, who did you have do it (dealer, independent mechanic, body shop, diy, etc?), and how much did it cost?
Other references: Big Problem with '04 CTS
CTS frame rust????
2003 CTS 3.2L V6 Oil and Coolant leaking, Rusted frame.
Oh well, on the bright side, at least all 4 of the catalytic converter to exhaust studs sheared off when trying to remove them to get access to the starter, and now the starter will not come out, possibly because the motor mount is collapsed and interferes with pulling it out. Time to move to my more reliable and more structurally sound car, a 99 Bonneville, or my even less reliable motorcycle, a 2000 Ducati Monster.
Re: Frame rust 2004 CTS-V
Wow! So crazy seeing this pop up, because my car is in the shop right now and guess what.. There is a hole in the frame. I haven't seen it myself so I can't go into detail about that, but it's there. 04 - not a V.
I've been shopping around for mechanics and this one told me to "run" (his exact words). He said he didn't inspect the vehicle fully because as soon as he jacked it up, he immediately noticed the hole in the frame. He told me I'd have to go somewhere else, probably a body shop, and that I was looking at anywhere from $1000-$2000+ to repair it. I took it back to my previous mechanic (has worked on my mom's STS since she got it) and he could do it. He didn't even talk about it like it was a big issue, haha, but that's just the way he is. Quoted me $950 for not only the hole, but TONS of other things as well. Ball joints, tie rods, practically every light on the vehicle (seemed like it), etc, etc. (I mention this because I don't know what the quote was for just the hole specifically), but I was extremely happy to find out that was it. He's always been extremely good with pricing and I didn't get any other quotes, but I'll take it.
Trade your Ducati for my 04 CTS w/ hole???
Wow! So crazy seeing this pop up, because my car is in the shop right now and guess what.. There is a hole in the frame. I haven't seen it myself so I can't go into detail about that, but it's there. 04 - not a V.
I've been shopping around for mechanics and this one told me to "run" (his exact words). He said he didn't inspect the vehicle fully because as soon as he jacked it up, he immediately noticed the hole in the frame. He told me I'd have to go somewhere else, probably a body shop, and that I was looking at anywhere from $1000-$2000+ to repair it. I took it back to my previous mechanic (has worked on my mom's STS since she got it) and he could do it. He didn't even talk about it like it was a big issue, haha, but that's just the way he is. Quoted me $950 for not only the hole, but TONS of other things as well. Ball joints, tie rods, practically every light on the vehicle (seemed like it), etc, etc. (I mention this because I don't know what the quote was for just the hole specifically), but I was extremely happy to find out that was it. He's always been extremely good with pricing and I didn't get any other quotes, but I'll take it.
Trade your Ducati for my 04 CTS w/ hole???
Re: Frame rust 2004 CTS-V
Very interesting, thanks for the info. It seems like this problem isn't specific to the V; it seems to happen on both. I'd be thrilled if I could find someone to fix mine for <$1k, but I'm not terribly optimistic. My reaction to the problem is much more in line with the first mechanic who looked at yours; I pretty much went from loving to hating my car. I'd actually be pretty relieved if I could get it done for less than $2k, but maybe I'm being too pessimistic. I've never taken a car to a shop for anything before, so I don't have a lot of experience with pricing. Unfortunately, welding and metal fabrication is pretty far outside of my skillset, so I don't really have a choice here.
PS: No deal on the Ducati trade The last thing that I need is another rusted CTS, and the last thing that anyone needs is a carbureted Itallian motorcycle that needs to be fixed at least once a month!
Very interesting, thanks for the info. It seems like this problem isn't specific to the V; it seems to happen on both. I'd be thrilled if I could find someone to fix mine for <$1k, but I'm not terribly optimistic. My reaction to the problem is much more in line with the first mechanic who looked at yours; I pretty much went from loving to hating my car. I'd actually be pretty relieved if I could get it done for less than $2k, but maybe I'm being too pessimistic. I've never taken a car to a shop for anything before, so I don't have a lot of experience with pricing. Unfortunately, welding and metal fabrication is pretty far outside of my skillset, so I don't really have a choice here.
PS: No deal on the Ducati trade
The last thing that I need is another rusted CTS, and the last thing that anyone needs is a carbureted Itallian motorcycle that needs to be fixed at least once a month!
Re: Frame rust 2004 CTS-V
yeap I got rust in the same place on my 2003 CTS and my front and rear sub-frames are rusted out as if this car was build in 1980s
Some people might blame the rust on the previous owner's neglect to wash the car after driving in snow. Well last week I was changing brakes on my moms 2004 Honda Accord which has 250,XXX KMS and I've noticed it doesn't have nowhere near as much rust as my CTS. The only rust it has was on the rear control arms. And I know that my mom never washed the car in the winter and hardly ever washed it at all, and generally doesn't know how to take care of the car.
Anyway I just painted over my rust with "Rust Killer" to at least slow down the spreading of the cancer, don't want to dumb any more money into this car
yeap I got rust in the same place on my 2003 CTS and my front and rear sub-frames are rusted out as if this car was build in 1980s
Some people might blame the rust on the previous owner's neglect to wash the car after driving in snow. Well last week I was changing brakes on my moms 2004 Honda Accord which has 250,XXX KMS and I've noticed it doesn't have nowhere near as much rust as my CTS. The only rust it has was on the rear control arms. And I know that my mom never washed the car in the winter and hardly ever washed it at all, and generally doesn't know how to take care of the car.
Anyway I just painted over my rust with "Rust Killer" to at least slow down the spreading of the cancer, don't want to dumb any more money into this car
Re: Frame rust 2004 CTS-V
I would definitely shop around and see what you find, before totally giving up. It's really tough to find a good mechanic, I had no clue I'd have so much trouble with that but the first one ended up being the best (but he's really slow.. but now I'm just thankful). Another thing is that not every mechanic knows Cadillacs, regardless of what they claim.
But again.. I'm not sure what it looks like. I've never seen the underside of the car. Not sure how big the hole is, or about the rust. I'm Canadian so winter driving being the cause is probably a good guess, and I'm sure there is rust, but I don't know anymore than what I've been told. I also got it from an area where the roads aren't too good. So potholes and junk could be the cause. It's funny because I was planning to rust-proof it before the winter season this year but oh look! Turns out it's already there.
And I hear you! I've always wanted a motorcycle (something tiny.. Ninja), and while you put more time into fixing them, I feel like it's also a lot easier to do it yourself.
Ikera, I feel better knowing I'm not the only one with this issue, but I'm sorry you're going through it as well. Do you have any plans to repair it?
I would definitely shop around and see what you find, before totally giving up. It's really tough to find a good mechanic, I had no clue I'd have so much trouble with that but the first one ended up being the best (but he's really slow.. but now I'm just thankful). Another thing is that not every mechanic knows Cadillacs, regardless of what they claim.
But again.. I'm not sure what it looks like. I've never seen the underside of the car. Not sure how big the hole is, or about the rust. I'm Canadian so winter driving being the cause is probably a good guess, and I'm sure there is rust, but I don't know anymore than what I've been told. I also got it from an area where the roads aren't too good. So potholes and junk could be the cause. It's funny because I was planning to rust-proof it before the winter season this year but oh look! Turns out it's already there.
This is my first car and so up until now I haven't had any experience with pricing either, but I also can't work on it myself.
And I hear you! I've always wanted a motorcycle (something tiny.. Ninja), and while you put more time into fixing them, I feel like it's also a lot easier to do it yourself.
Ikera, I feel better knowing I'm not the only one with this issue, but I'm sorry you're going through it as well. Do you have any plans to repair it?
Re: Frame rust 2004 CTS-V
Canadian winters likely didn't help anything, but they don't explain the localized nature of this corrosion, and my car was parked in a garage overnight for most of its life, and the PO said that he rarely drove it in the winter. It seems this problem is likely a result of the structural foam that was used in "strategic areas" of the longitudinal rails of the CTS to improve strength and crash worthiness. This location would make sense for reinforcement, as it is a high stress area.
This appears to be one of the first large scale deployments of structural foam by GM, maybe by any manufacturers. Polyurethane foam for NVH applications has been used for a while (with more than a few corrosion problems), but this is epoxy based foam that is structurally integral.
If this foam is absorbing and/or trapping water, and that is the root cause of this issue, then it is a particularly hard problem to solve. Coating the outside won't do anything if it is rotting from the inside.
Canadian winters likely didn't help anything, but they don't explain the localized nature of this corrosion, and my car was parked in a garage overnight for most of its life, and the PO said that he rarely drove it in the winter. It seems this problem is likely a result of the structural foam that was used in "strategic areas" of the longitudinal rails of the CTS to improve strength and crash worthiness. This location would make sense for reinforcement, as it is a high stress area.
This appears to be one of the first large scale deployments of structural foam by GM, maybe by any manufacturers. Polyurethane foam for NVH applications has been used for a while (with more than a few corrosion problems), but this is epoxy based foam that is structurally integral.
If this foam is absorbing and/or trapping water, and that is the root cause of this issue, then it is a particularly hard problem to solve. Coating the outside won't do anything if it is rotting from the inside.
The problem is the water drains down into that part of the frame and sits, salt et al.
I'd be surprised if it comes to $2k. You need someone good with a welder and to bend a bit of metal to ensure it penetrates and goes far enough on either side of the rot.
I was surprised to see it on my '03 (since sold) and luckily my neighbor is awesome with a welder!
I'd be surprised if it comes to $2k. You need someone good with a welder and to bend a bit of metal to ensure it penetrates and goes far enough on either side of the rot.
I was surprised to see it on my '03 (since sold) and luckily my neighbor is awesome with a welder!
Re: Frame rust 2004 CTS-V
It would be rather interesting to know what your state/town/providence uses to salt their roads. I wish I knew exactly what the substance that some use, but others will refuse because it rots out frames of cars. Of course those states that refuses to use this bad substance is using something else that cost a bit more.
I remember an article for my state, Connecticut, that wants to continue to use this bad substance. And they said it's up to us to wash under our cars a few days after the snow storm. It was a big fuss for the 18 wheelers.
KOT
It would be rather interesting to know what your state/town/providence uses to salt their roads. I wish I knew exactly what the substance that some use, but others will refuse because it rots out frames of cars. Of course those states that refuses to use this bad substance is using something else that cost a bit more.
I remember an article for my state, Connecticut, that wants to continue to use this bad substance. And they said it's up to us to wash under our cars a few days after the snow storm. It was a big fuss for the 18 wheelers.
KOT
Re: Frame rust 2004 CTS-V
I have a 2004 Cadillac CTS which I just took in for it's 100,000 tuneup. To my surprise I was told after the inspection the front frame rails, just behind the engine cradle had rusted and rotted. The frame needs repair.
I have taken very good care of my car. It is parked in the garage more than driven during the winter and regularly washed and waxed.
This is now a safety issue. My husband is in contact with Cadillac and GM to see what they can do for us. This is a Cadillac how could this happen?
I have a 2004 Cadillac CTS which I just took in for it's 100,000 tuneup. To my surprise I was told after the inspection the front frame rails, just behind the engine cradle had rusted and rotted. The frame needs repair.
I have taken very good care of my car. It is parked in the garage more than driven during the winter and regularly washed and waxed.
This is now a safety issue. My husband is in contact with Cadillac and GM to see what they can do for us. This is a Cadillac how could this happen?
Re: CTS frame rust?
We also found out after normal service that the frame rails on our CTS has the same problems as everybody.
We have made numerous contacts with Cadillac and their dealers. They say that there is nothing they can do with it, and recommended I trade it in for a new one. It's kind of like they didn't have an ignition switch problem. We are waiting to consult an attorney, and this might turn into a class action suite. Any body that might be interested let us know.
This is a safety problem, the car can break in half or crumble in an accident. They are well aware of the problem but do not want to admit it. Let's get together on this and get our cars fixed and safe. Thank you
The more people that say something maybe they will do something about it.
We also found out after normal service that the frame rails on our CTS has the same problems as everybody.
We have made numerous contacts with Cadillac and their dealers. They say that there is nothing they can do with it, and recommended I trade it in for a new one. It's kind of like they didn't have an ignition switch problem. We are waiting to consult an attorney, and this might turn into a class action suite. Any body that might be interested let us know.
This is a safety problem, the car can break in half or crumble in an accident. They are well aware of the problem but do not want to admit it. Let's get together on this and get our cars fixed and safe. Thank you
The more people that say something maybe they will do something about it.
I had my car on four jack stands to do my front upper / lower ball joints and a tire rotation so I decided to take my mechanic creeper for a spin under my car to inspect the chassis.
Though my car sees almost no AC-usage year around and I do at least two underside washes a month in the winter there was some rust starting on the passenger frame rail exactly were the brake / fuel lines clip to the passenger frame rail and a bit on the opposite side. But that was minor surface rust at least that's easy to deal with.
However the biggest issue I noticed was a rust spot on the driver frame rail, it wasn't at the frame rail seem like I saw in the pictures on this thread, it was almost a bit downward at the frame rail hole almost the one that is parallel to the transmission drain plug (I happened to be checking my transmission fluid level too this long weekend). Nothing is attached there obviously and it was starting from the inside it seems.
There was a very small rust spot on the outside side of that driver side frame rail that was starting at the opposite hole. But it was mostly surface rust.
After hammering all the flaky rust on the inside rust spot on the inside of the driver side frame rail which became as wide as a couple of golden dollars and as long as two and half quarters. It was in the middle and not on the edge at least.
I decided that the structural integrity doesn't seem to have been massively altered in a dangerous manner and I'm not willing to dump hundreds on repairs. So for the time being I decided last weekend to do it myself while the car was on jack stands.
I brushed cleaned all the surface rust that I found on the bottom on all frame rails, brushed clean and painted the brake lines as well. Then hit everything I could inside and out with a couple bottles of brake clean to remove debris.
I had a new can of Rust-oleum Rust Reformer on hand which allows one to paint over a clean semi-rusty / rusty surface which has been at least cleaned of debris.
So I sprayed that Rust Reformer heavily inside and outside of those three major spots that I had metal brushed to near bare metal and some rust. Then I sprayed the rest of the front half of the car with the leftover after of course brushing clean what I could.
All those major areas I sprayed inside and out three times to make a coat well what I could. Then that major hole on the driver side I wasn't sure what to fill it up with, I was running out of time, I had a Loctite silicon tube handy so I filled the heck out of that frame rail with silicone caulk to seal it on the inside. May have not been the best thing but I wanted anything that seals it and that's what I had on hand.
After emptying half a tube of silicone on that hole and perfectly smoothing the surface. I did a couple of thick coats of self-etching primer all over the Rust-oluem painted areas. After it dried I sprayed painted a couple of coats of paint followed by a couple of coats of enamel. I basically emptied my arsenal of old spray cans on that son of a gun underside. Then I idled my engine for a while to bake that finish and now I plan on inspecting it every couple of weeks to see if any of this hack job of rust proofing is failing.... I'll know for sure once winter comes.
While I was at it, I metal brushed and cleaned the transmission support and the front subframe and painted those as well with the Rust Reformer, self-etching primer, paint and protective enamel.
I spent a good 3 hours on that job and I hope I at least have stopped things from going further than this.
I think I need to get my hands on some very high temp silicone in a caulk tube so I can fill all those frame rails of this car up to at least seal them from air and water. That's my working theory at least, since only one rail has been compromised a bit, it's not too late to pack those rails to the brim with high-temp silicone, at least salt and moisture will not find a good spot to go from there except away from the rails which have been protected from surface rust.
Someone correct me if what I did above is futile or there is method to my madness or if I made things a bit worse with that silicone filling.
After almost 150 miles of driving everything seems good so far, that hole which I assumed would cave in no time due to the exhaust heat is still holding up strong, when I have time I plan on making a metal plate that I can weld to shut it for good, but for now the silicone is holding up.
Though my car sees almost no AC-usage year around and I do at least two underside washes a month in the winter there was some rust starting on the passenger frame rail exactly were the brake / fuel lines clip to the passenger frame rail and a bit on the opposite side. But that was minor surface rust at least that's easy to deal with.
However the biggest issue I noticed was a rust spot on the driver frame rail, it wasn't at the frame rail seem like I saw in the pictures on this thread, it was almost a bit downward at the frame rail hole almost the one that is parallel to the transmission drain plug (I happened to be checking my transmission fluid level too this long weekend). Nothing is attached there obviously and it was starting from the inside it seems.
There was a very small rust spot on the outside side of that driver side frame rail that was starting at the opposite hole. But it was mostly surface rust.
After hammering all the flaky rust on the inside rust spot on the inside of the driver side frame rail which became as wide as a couple of golden dollars and as long as two and half quarters. It was in the middle and not on the edge at least.
I decided that the structural integrity doesn't seem to have been massively altered in a dangerous manner and I'm not willing to dump hundreds on repairs. So for the time being I decided last weekend to do it myself while the car was on jack stands.
I brushed cleaned all the surface rust that I found on the bottom on all frame rails, brushed clean and painted the brake lines as well. Then hit everything I could inside and out with a couple bottles of brake clean to remove debris.
I had a new can of Rust-oleum Rust Reformer on hand which allows one to paint over a clean semi-rusty / rusty surface which has been at least cleaned of debris.
So I sprayed that Rust Reformer heavily inside and outside of those three major spots that I had metal brushed to near bare metal and some rust. Then I sprayed the rest of the front half of the car with the leftover after of course brushing clean what I could.
All those major areas I sprayed inside and out three times to make a coat well what I could. Then that major hole on the driver side I wasn't sure what to fill it up with, I was running out of time, I had a Loctite silicon tube handy so I filled the heck out of that frame rail with silicone caulk to seal it on the inside. May have not been the best thing but I wanted anything that seals it and that's what I had on hand.
After emptying half a tube of silicone on that hole and perfectly smoothing the surface. I did a couple of thick coats of self-etching primer all over the Rust-oluem painted areas. After it dried I sprayed painted a couple of coats of paint followed by a couple of coats of enamel. I basically emptied my arsenal of old spray cans on that son of a gun underside. Then I idled my engine for a while to bake that finish and now I plan on inspecting it every couple of weeks to see if any of this hack job of rust proofing is failing.... I'll know for sure once winter comes.
While I was at it, I metal brushed and cleaned the transmission support and the front subframe and painted those as well with the Rust Reformer, self-etching primer, paint and protective enamel.
I spent a good 3 hours on that job and I hope I at least have stopped things from going further than this.
I think I need to get my hands on some very high temp silicone in a caulk tube so I can fill all those frame rails of this car up to at least seal them from air and water. That's my working theory at least, since only one rail has been compromised a bit, it's not too late to pack those rails to the brim with high-temp silicone, at least salt and moisture will not find a good spot to go from there except away from the rails which have been protected from surface rust.
Someone correct me if what I did above is futile or there is method to my madness or if I made things a bit worse with that silicone filling.
After almost 150 miles of driving everything seems good so far, that hole which I assumed would cave in no time due to the exhaust heat is still holding up strong, when I have time I plan on making a metal plate that I can weld to shut it for good, but for now the silicone is holding up.
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