I certainly hope not but, possible. I don't think I can justify $90k. I read somewhere that there were only going to be 4 options on the V3. Recaro seats, PDR, Carbon fiber kit and sun roof. I find it hard to believe there won't be a break color and rim options (unless those options are somewhat standard, like paint options). I think all I want is the Recaro seats and the PDR, not sure on the carbon fiber option. ATS-V PDR is $1300, Z06 PDR is $1750, ATS-V Recaro is $2300 my 2012 Recaro's were $3200 (I think). Some reports say no gas guzzler tax which will help. Mine was $2600 on 2012 A6. I am still hoping for under $80k base. Not sure it will happen though.

 

I really think GM's pricing is way out of whack over the last year. They are going to have a lot of cars sitting on dealer lots and they will have to resort to big incentives when they see that guys like us won't buy the 3rd gen CTS-V if it's priced at over $90K. Time will tell, but all my pricing predictions so far have come true. Dealers can't sell ATS or CTS vehicles without putting thousands of dollars of incentives on the hoods of these cars. They have a 6 month supply of ATS vehicles on dealer lots and a 4 month supply of CTS vehicles on dealers lots.

Johan's strategy of keeping high MSRPs and making less cars is going to shoot Cadillac and GM in the foot. They need to make Cadillacs priced way less to make it appealing to potential German luxury vehicle buyers in order to woo them into dealer showrooms. All they are doing right now is pushing people off the fence and into German luxury dealership showrooms. Why would anyone buy a Cadillac when a similarly equipped BMW or Mercedes is around the same price?!!! Someone that wants to buy an expensive luxury car isn't going to come to Cadillac for a couple thousand dollars in savings. This isn't rocket science. Cadillac needs to prove themselves in the marketplace and once they have people hooked, then slowly raise the prices. That strategy works everytime! What GM is doing with their pricing across their entire brand lineup is just assinine!

 

I couldn't agree more with this post. Assuming all other things are equal, the cars are made here in America, don't need to be shipped over in a cargo ship. That alone should be worth $1,000. I am not taking anything away from BMW or AMG, but part of the appeal of the V2 for me was the tremendous value proposition, if you can say that about a $72k car. My V2 was $73k MSRP. After my GM discount, conquest incentive, and other stuff, plus them paying off my old lease, I walked out of there for $59k. Let's wait and see what they actually get for this thing. But I have to say, at $90k, no sale from me.

 

Where are you guys finding the price breakdown for the options? All I've seen is the press release regarding the base prices for the ATS-V sedan and coupe.

 

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-ats-v-series-forum/616889-ats-v-pricing-12.html

 

Yep. With the ATS V topping out in the mid $70k range it wouldn't be surprising if the V3 hits $90k.
Too bad GM doesn't pay de Nysschen based on Cadillac's quarterly profits. I'll bet if they did Johan would start seeing things differently!

 

I don't think the V is a cash cow for GM. More of a prestige thing. Escalades are where they make their real money I heard. Take a Chevy Tahoe, add nice shiny bits, and charge crazy money. They can't build those things fast enough.

 

I'm not a buyer at 90k...85k max...

 

Sales are down year over year but profits on each sale have nearly doubled. Cadillac is producing better cars than it has in decades and they are selling for far less than advertized. In my area the base ATS is selling for $28,000. That's $4,000 less than the base A4, 328i and $9,000 less than the C300. That's a lot of car for the money. People are getting turned away by the sticker but there has never been a better time to buy a Cadillac.

 

^^^I don't disagree that now is a great time to buy a Cadillac. Heck, with all the great discounts and incentives a new Cadillac can be had for well below the original (inflated) price.
Overpricing even a great car and then having to offer everything but the kitchen sink to sell them does not help Cadillacs image/prestige.

 

The new V is a big step up from the V2. As the V2 was over the V1.

None of the V2 guys blinked an eye at upper 60s for a loaded one. V1 guys may have.

You will all be replaced.

Higher price, bigger snobs. No biggie...

 

The problem is the MSRP GM has been setting on their cars. Most people shopping for Cadillacs look at the MSRP, not at the price they can ACTUALLY get the car for. Most people don't know they can get the car for THOUSANDS off MSRP. That's the problem. People look at the MSRP of the new GM vehicles and they run out the door and think to themselves...why should I buy a Cadillac when I can get the Mercedes or BMW for around the same price? The MSRP is what is hurting GM and Cadillac. Nothing more. Whatever value we all saw in the V2's pricing is now gone. The V2 value was such that offered better performance over the German luxury brands but for tens of thousands of dollars less. Now that gap is narrowing at a scary pace and I keep scratching my head and shaking my head at what GM is thinking. I don't know how long it will be for GM to realize that their inflated pricing will slowly decrease their sales volumes. If history is any indication, it shouldn't be long. Once they see cars collecting dust on dealer lots, they will start the big incentives because they will have NO choice in the matter. If you want to move the metal, you have to make it attractive to the consumer. Cadillac hasn't earned the right to charge the prices that GM is publishing on the window stickers. It will take Cadillac AT LEAST 10 more years before they can start creeping prices higher. In the meantime, give people a nice car with a good value and then let the brand speak for itself.

 

The cars ARE that good. Period. The public will eventually get there. If not, they're stupid.

 

The cars may be that good, but the brand definitely is not. Lousy dealer experiences and service horror stories. I never had the problems with service I've had with Cadillac when I had a BMW, Lexus, or Infiniti. They need to weed out the bad dealers, improve the quality of the showrooms, and most of all, bring the service up to the level people spending this kind of money demand. Period. They just don't have that yet, and it will take a long time. I've never had a BMW SA tell me to come back in two weeks for an appointment because they were too busy, or tell me that "we don't do that type of work on Fridays", but my Cadillac SA did before I switched to a better dealer.

 

Johan is an idiot. One of Cadillacs differentiators is it's value proposition compared to the Germans. Setting a high MRSP and discounting the sh!t out of it is a bad idea.

1 - Makes people wonder why the price is slashed....is something wrong with the car versus competitors and will resale / residual be garbage?
2 - People shopping for cars will see a high MRSP and not even bother going into the showroom.

Drives me nuts.

 

I have a bone stock ( except for corsa sport axle back exhaust) 2012 CTS-V A6 sedan with 23,000 miles, that I am planning to replace with a 2016 C7 Z06 A8 coupe. If I was going to stay with a CTS-V, I would just do a stage 2 upgrade with Vengeance Racing and have more power than the V3 at a cost of maybe 6 to 9 grand, depending on what goodies I added to the package. A lot cheaper than a new V3 if it's priced up around the 85/90 grand range. I still think the V3 is a better car than the M5 or Mercedes, but the status conscious pretentious types will always go to the BMW, Porsche, Mercedes etc.

 

Jim is right, if you think the price is too high, you will be replaced. I personally think at 90k the car is a fair deal. And, I'm happy they will produce less volume. One thing I always liked about my V's is I don't see them on the road very often. There's a lot of people not happy with Johan's strategy but as Jim said, you will be replaced.

 

Everyone knows that they won't have to pay 90k. Remember the XLR-V, that was a 100k car back in the day. I could have picked one up for 75k, before haggling. That's not the issue. The issue is that they think they can ask 90k. Judging by the way the current CTS is selling, they are reaching. I'll make my offer and see what happens. I remember when I got my V2, they were throwing money at me until I just said yes already. And, as I said before, get rid of the crappy dealers. They bring down the brand as a whole.

 

And likely so will Johan.

 

If anything, he'll just move on. Right now, I don't have any big disagreements with how he's running things...

 

Trust me, we won't be replaced. People won't spend around $100K for a Cadillac when they can get an S-Class Mercedes for the same price. All GM will do is lose potential buyers to Mercedes and BMW. It's already happening. Cadillac is already experiencing sales declines while other luxury brands are reporting record sales volumes!!! The sales numbers don't lie.

 

Well put.

 

There are no replacements... The 80k car market is already small...the cars will certainly be on par with the Germans, but everyone's perception is not. Which is why the current cts-v sport is selling 10k under msrp...there are not going to be any amg or //m guys hoping ship for a comparably priced American made car.

 

There are no replacements... The 80k car market is already small...the cars will certainly be on par with the Germans, but everyone's perception is not. Which is why the current cts-v sport is selling 10k under msrp...there are not going to be any amg or //m guys hoping ship for a comparably priced American made car.

I tend to agree that the price should be reduced because we are dealing with equally ignorant customers from the country club set and/or the eurosnobs, which probably aren't car guys, but are really indiscriminate and clueless status seekers.

 

I feel that the pricing of the V3 may come in too high. Sure the V2 when introduced was higher but offered so much more and blew the competition away for substantially less. Now the price point is narrowing. On a good note it may help the resale on a V2. I may be a buyer for a V3...just want to see what the pricing and demand will be. I may even wait a year after the intro and try to find a low mileage year old one. Going to be a wait and see for me!!

 

Yes they ARE that good as Jim says and Cadillac deserves every penny to pay for all that world class Engineering that went into them. This car on paper seems much better than the V2. So many advanced features in this badddd ass machine. I'm just not sold on the interior of the V. Too cush and not enough Motor sport. The new recaro Seats really help. Maybe some more brushed metal... that Piano black CUE center console is ehh... But the performance and styling on the outside hasgot me yurning baby...

Now, I just hope i can get back into one. Had an 09 and yes I parted $72k including tax for one. $85K will be a big stretch that I may be willing to make...Depends. But hey if i'm going to spend that much I may just go for 2 doors and look at a Merc GT or an R8. Wishfull anyway....

But on the note of Dealers...And i've said this before on this forum...Cadillac wants to charge these big dollars, then their service better be on par with the likes of let's say Infinity where i had the best experience with my Wife's M35. I mean I roll in they're taking air pressure and checking fluids... i have greeter take my keys. Then i sit in a nice waiting room. I get my car serviced and a car wash... I get an Infinity courtesy car to use...No damn chevy cruz from a rental company. And i get a courtesy call from the dealership the next day asking if my experience with them was exemplary. I mean i never got that with my V til one dealer who owned this infinity delaership ended up buying a cadillac dealership that was going out.... They just knew how to service the customer. I just no longer worked in that area to use them again. Too bad... they were good.

Even still today, I have a 14' GMC Denali, same local GM dealer i brought my V to. These guys order the wrong part for my heated seat that went bad... now 3 times i have togo back for this. And i get a call from the Dealership Owner on my voicemail asking me to please submit a 100% satifactory survey... and if i cant do that i was to contact the service advisor first.... Yeah ok... i had issues with service before with my V for bad paint touch ups and i didnt give a SAT service survey then why would i do it now? Get it right GM... make you dealers step it up to the world class service we deserve as a premium buyer. Done ranting now...Still like Caddys...

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Yup I'm going to wait a year myself and get a barely uesd one... I lost too much residual on my V2 when i sold it... now im going to get it back!

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$85k All in is good... Incl. Carbon fiber, Sun roof PDR the works... but again I'll wait an see this time around... Although I did get $6k off my V2. Ill find one for me....

 

I don't think being a "car guy" has anything to do with where they should be pricing cars.. Country club snobs are the people buying the cars...not "car guys". "Car guys" watch youtube videos of cars they'll never be able to afford...country club snobs are writing checks...from a business aspect, you should appeal to your target market. The V market is "bang for buck". So to stay in that lane, 85k has to be a fully loaded v.

We will have a much better car than the V2, so there will be a premium...just not a German premium...

 

this is very true about who's writing checks....and it is also true that because of those check writers certain demands were made (bad ones) that that are being fulfilled..this is how Porsche ended up in the sedan ans SUV business, and M cars gained automatics, hardtop convertibles, and M SUVs

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It is a bit of a conundrum for those of us with V2s, especially coming from a 6-sp manual sedan.

The ATS-V is now priced in the CTS-V sweet spot...fully equipped with a 6-speed and carbon package (which looks sweet), it will run mid-$70s. Only problem it's a smaller car, with a lot less rear seat and trunk room than the CTS. It's sized like a 3-series, albeit not as space-efficient. Now that I've grown accustomed to the CTS form factor, not sure I want to downsize or lose the V8. Maybe if the performance is utterly spectacular, I'll change my mind.

Which leaves the new CTS-V. I agree it's looking like low-$80s to start and mid-$90s fully equipped -- but automatic only. I like it, but not an easy upgrade from a V2. And Cadillac should be thinking about us. Repeat buyers are a good thing -- better to find new buyers AND get existing customers to upgrade.

BTW, I do like what Cadillac is doing with the CTS VSport -- in fact, it's starting to grow on me with the new black grill and rear spoiler. Maybe there's a place for an "performance package" VSport with the ATS-V engine inside. If it had a 6-speed manual, I'd seriously consider one. Ahh well - anyone from Cadillac listening?

Alternatively, I can just hang on to the V2 and wait :thehand: Maybe the manuals will appreciate...

For alternatives, BMW/Merc/Audi are just not me. The Charger Hellcat is interesting for less money, but I doubt the chassis will be as well-sorted as the V's. The Tesla P85D is interesting, but way expensive. I can't price it under $115K.

i understand your sorrow at lack of manual, but your blame is misdirected.....cadillac was very cool and brave delivering a car gen 2 CTS in a WAGON, and STICK for the regular cars in a stick/wagon hostile country...to their credit they even combined them with the V-Wagon super cool...WE are to blame for gen3 not having either because we voted with our pocket books we told them not to make another....GM is not a charity, they are a business whose primary job is to make cool stuff we WILL buy, unfortunately for some STICKS and WAGONS weren't it

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The tried and true always works; low base price, with many options available.

if so tried and true why is this strategy not working for the Hyundai Genesis/Equus or Kia K900?

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Among many things, Cadillac invented the Magneride suspension that Ferrari licensed.
Don't forget hat previous V's were "tweeners" that fell between the M3 and M5. The ATS-V goes for the M3 and the CTS-V goes for the M5. This new development further explains the price jump. Again, as we agree, the market will decide... I for one, am an anxious V3 buyer.

so true....people seem to not want to remember Gen 2 CTS was a tweener and that car was effectively split in two with ATS/Gen3 CTS and part of the price is for a) bigger car and b) would be silly to have ATS and CTS the same price

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Cadillac didn't invent MagneRide, Delphi Automotive did. Cadillac was the first to deploy the technology on the 2002 STS. That was 13 years ago so still doesn't explain the price alienation of the current V2 buyer base. For the people who can't wait to throw money at Cadillac, have at it. I'll enjoy my V2 for another few months and then reevaluate my options.

Back then Delphi was GM...so saying Cadillac inventing MRC is truer than saying they didn't....and none of us are in a position to know if Delphi was doing this at cadillacs request, it was all GM after all

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Ding! There it is. And that's part of the problem, the ATS-V isn't being priced in a vacuum. So not only is Cadillac pricing the ATS-V almost exactly where the Germans are, they're also pricing it in a way that contradicts the expectations of the brand, those expectations having been set by the V2 CTS-V, which cost $20-30k less than its German competitors. Not a couple hundred - over 20 THOUSAND. Maybe that's unrealistic to expect of the ATS-V, but the fact remains that the V2 CTS-V set a precedent for pricing and that is what people expect from Cadillac.

And yes you will have to configure an M3 with a bunch of options to get the equipment level up but you're going to have to do the same thing on the ATS-V. And the same goes for the C63. But more importantly, people don't care about that. This is about perception, and when you're comparing price you're comparing MSRP. Where de Nysschen is screwing up, IMO, is in his belief that the quality and performance of the ATS-V is enough to sell the car at the same price point as the Germans. And even if it is - and I believe that it probably is - that's really not how it works in the real world.

Brand perception is everything. In the end, given roughly equivalent stats and pricing, people will take the safe bet and go with the M3 or the C63, as those are established performance marques that come with a trunk full of prestige. The ATS-V is an unknown, and if you've been paying attention on message boards and forums over the last couple years, even performance enthusiasts still don't really "get" Cadillac. Most of them don't believe Cadillac is capable of building a good performance car, despite all the evidence. Evidence doesn't really matter. Perception does. You can tell somebody the ATS-V is a better performance car than the M3 until you're blue in the face, but most of the time they're still going to look at it sideways and go "eehhh...".

Because why would they buy an ATS-V when they can have an established marque like an M3 for the same money? It seems to me like de Nysschen has never asked himself this question. He's just expecting that people are open minded and will do the required research and they will learn how good the ATS-V is and it will sell itself at that point. Either that or he's expecting that people believe Cadillac is a performance brand now and will just buy the ATS-V because they innately understand how good it is. Kind of like we do. In either case, he's delusional.

Time will tell I guess, but I think he's making a mistake pricing it the way he did. He should have started it in the low 50s. That way it wouldn't conflict with the Chevy SS and it would still undercut the M3, and maybe more importantly, it would uphold the expectations Cadillac set for pricing. I mean I'm assuming de Nysschen wants to actually SELL some ATS-Vs. Pricing them exactly the same as the market leader is going to make less people buy them, not more. They may very well be worth $60k in a vacuum, but nobody really cares about that when you can have an AMG Mercedes for the same price.

And I hate to say it, but I think Merc actually out-did Cadillac for value this time, because that AMG C63 has a twin turbo V8. I know the ATS-V will most likely handle better but I doubt it will be faster, and for that price even I am having trouble coming up with reasons why you should buy an ATS-V over that C63.

gen 2 CTS was a tweener it had to be cheaper or it was overpriced.....gen2 CTS-V was a similiar performing car to M5/E63 AMG that was a smaller car than the germans...the misperception in its favor was that gen2 CTS was somehow equivalent to the 5 series/E-Class in every way...it was in performance definitely, better even....it was not as a car, smaller size, less refinement, not as nice buying experience.....on its own a great car overall

 

$85K, GM/Cadillac will have to really update the interior package. the power train IMHO is there. The interior needs major updating with optional colors available. The coupe should not have rear seats. unless you a member in a circus you cannot get an average adult in the back without major discomfort!

 

Like the NEW Z06, they started high, and now they are less and less. Hype but no sales equals reductions. I'm just glad that I'm not in a hurry to get something....yet!

 

Just checked the GM Supplier Discount website. Z06 is not currently eligible, but the other Vettes are. The discount is $6k. Z06 probably coming soon as well. V-Sport CTS discount is $4,300. No reason to think the V3 won't be at least as much.

 

It is a bit of a conundrum for those of us with V2s, especially coming from a 6-sp manual sedan.

The ATS-V is now priced in the CTS-V sweet spot...fully equipped with a 6-speed and carbon package (which looks sweet), it will run mid-$70s. Only problem it's a smaller car, with a lot less rear seat and trunk room than the CTS. It's sized like a 3-series, albeit not as space-efficient. Now that I've grown accustomed to the CTS form factor, not sure I want to downsize or lose the V8. Maybe if the performance is utterly spectacular, I'll change my mind.

Which leaves the new CTS-V. I agree it's looking like low-$80s to start and mid-$90s fully equipped -- but automatic only. I like it, but not an easy upgrade from a V2. And Cadillac should be thinking about us. Repeat buyers are a good thing -- better to find new buyers AND get existing customers to upgrade.

BTW, I do like what Cadillac is doing with the CTS VSport -- in fact, it's starting to grow on me with the new black grill and rear spoiler. Maybe there's a place for an "performance package" VSport with the ATS-V engine inside. If it had a 6-speed manual, I'd seriously consider one. Ahh well - anyone from Cadillac listening?

Alternatively, I can just hang on to the V2 and wait :thehand: Maybe the manuals will appreciate...

For alternatives, BMW/Merc/Audi are just not me. The Charger Hellcat is interesting for less money, but I doubt the chassis will be as well-sorted as the V's. The Tesla P85D is interesting, but way expensive. I can't price it under $115K.