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'15 ATS 3.6L shaking violently and service Stabilitrak

35K views 39 replies 11 participants last post by  RWApplegate  
#1 ·
I started my car a few days to drive and the car started shaking like crazy shaking like the engine was loose, I was still parked and just started the car I hit the gas and the traction control turned off and I got a Service Stabilitrak light and the engine light was flashing and the car was still shaking very violently The car was running completely fine before this happened randomly. I'm going to take it to the mechanic tomorrow morning.

this happened on my 2015 Cadillac ATS 3.6L
 
#2 ·
Welcome to CF !!!

Do you have access to an OBD-II diagnostic scanner?? There are most likely one or more diagnostic trouble codes set in the car's system and, if you can retrieve the codes, use the below link to define and post what you found. Repair shops and parts stores ............... maybe an auto club.


Diagnostic codes read out as a letter, four digits, maybe a suffix letter.
 
#4 ·
Welcome to CF !!!

Do you have access to an OBD-II diagnostic scanner?? There are most likely one or more diagnostic trouble codes set in the car's system and, if you can retrieve the codes, use the below link to define and post what you found. Repair shops and parts stores ............... maybe an auto club.

Diagnostic codes read out as a letter, four digits, maybe a suffix letter.
I unfortunately do not have a OBD-II diagnostic scanner. I will probably buy one in case this happens again(I hope not)
Thanks
 
#3 ·
The flashing CEL indicates sustained misfire of one or more cylinders. Traction control and Stabilitrak are disabled when the engine is not operating properly because those systems depend upon the engine to respond exactly as commanded in order for those systems to operate.

If you mechanic is a significant distance away, if the flashing CEL continues while the car is in motion then I would strongly advise that you have it towed or put on a flatbed to your mechanic. A flashing CEL is used when a sustained significant misfire is occurring because it is likely that raw fuel is being dumped into the catalytic converters and this will rapidly overheat them resulting in their destruction and it can lead to a vehicle fire because they will soon be glowing yellow hot. If it is ABSOLUTELY necessary to drive it a very few miles with the flashing CEL, do so slowly and at very light throttle application. But that is still a bad idea.

Rodger
 
#8 ·
There are a lot of mechanical things that could happen but do NOT worry about that until you have the car scanned by your mechanic because the odds are extremely high that it is a very simple issue with spark (coil pack or plug) or fuel injection (injector not spraying or not spraying the correct pattern).

The 3.6L had become highly reliable by the time the ATS was introduced, the original generation 3.6L I had in my 2008 CTS is known for timing chain guide wear which was made far worse by GM trying to match BMW's idiotic extreme mileage between oil change interval when they introduced their DI engine. I had a fairly early production 3.6L direct injection but it got its first oil change at 1,000 miles and thereafter was changed at the 60 and 20% OLM indicated intervals at which point I would reset it. If you followed the original OLM calibration, it would allow over 25K between changes under normal conditions which was ridiculous and that OLM set of constants was changed through a recall with new calibration by GM after the engines started eating timing chains early in life. Mine was still fine at 90K when I traded it in for my ATS.

The 3.6L has been one of my favorite GM engines, along with the highly reliable "3800" and the classic 350 V8. Anything can break and break expensively but your odds are very favorable with GM's better engineering efforts and the 3.6L falls in that school. I ordered the current generation 3.6L when I bought a 2021 Camaro after my daughter started driving the ATS. I would have ordered the CT-4 replacement for the ATS IF they had a powertrain choice I liked, if the 3.6 had still been available I would be driving a CT-4 instead.

Shortly after my generation of Corvette was released (I have a 2016 C7 Z06), a bunch of owners freaked out when their nearly brand new vehicles displayed the same symptoms as your car. The assembler wasn't always pushing the spark plug wire caps firmly onto the plugs and many cars with under 1,000 miles were suddenly displaying a flashing CEL for misfire along with shaking and TCS and Stabilitrak systems disabled.

Rodger
 
#9 ·
I'm having the car scanned and hopefully fixed by the mechanic tomorrow morning.

I bought this car used and it had like 110,000km (68,350 miles according to google) on it.
This car is used, the guy who I bought it from (we are friends now) said that he changed all the oils on time. after I bought it, I changed engine oil and the car was in excellent condition, I don't know what you mean by OLM calibration.
Thanks for letting me know about the reliability of this engine, I will keep you updated on what the mechanic tells me.
Thank you for all your help.
 
#10 ·
OLM is the acronym for Oil Life Monitor. It is a system that GM has used for many years and has continuously improved which tracks vehicle operation in order to indicate needed oil changes. It is a very sophisticated system that track multiple aspects of vehicle operation to accurately gauge the impact upon the oil. With your ATS, you can feel safe in trusting what its percentage readout tells you in terms of remaining oil life and when to change it.

With the exception of the early 3.6L second generation CTS application, the OLM system has been excellent and I think that poorly implemented calibration was driven by marketing and not the engineering side of what was then called Powertrain Division because those engineers were first rate.

Hopefully your 3.6L is purring happily again soon!

Rodger
 
#13 ·
If a cylinder is misfiring allowing sufficient amounts of raw fuel to pass down to a catalytic converter and the converter is up to operating temperature, it may melt the substrate to the point of plugging up the the exhaust flow. You don't want to go there.

Why can't you have it towed?
 
#14 ·
Whatever is causing the misfire has mostly abated. I would drive straight to your mechanic at reasonable speed and park it. You may have a coil pack going out which is cheap and no big deal if addressed quickly.

IF the CEL starts flashing again, stop driving it because you will be turning a minor inexpensive problem into one that is very expensive. A flashing CEL means that there is a sustained misfire in one or more cylinders and if the misfire isn't due to lack of fuel (spark, valve, etc.) then there is raw fuel going directly into now hot and quickly getting hotter cats.

If it is a coil pack going out, make sure that the associated plug is also replaced because a bad plug can damage a coil pack.

Rodger
 
#15 · (Edited)
The CEL did not flash at all while I'm driving, I arrived at the mechanic, and he said I need to replace the oxygen sensor and spark plugs, I'm going to buy new ones right now and get them replaced. Thankfully you were right it was the spark plugs. The check engine light was on but was not flashing.

The mechanic is also checking the coils and the catalytic converters.

I'm guessing replacing the oxygen sensor would fix my StabiliTrak and Traction Control?

Thank you so much for your help!
 
#17 ·
A 3.6L normally wouldn't need plugs at your mileage, forced induction engines like the 2.0T have a shorter life/required change interval. I suspect you have a coil pack that is failing but it certainly won't hurt to change all of the plugs. Normal suggested life is 156,000km/97,500 miles and that is a "safe" interval where GM felt the chances of plug failure was extremely low. Not every part makes the expected MTBF but I would be very suspicious of the associated coil pack on cylinders with a high misfire count because they are far less reliable than plugs.

The ECM will show misfire counts by cylinder so it will be pretty easy for your mechanic to run down the cylinder(s) with the issue. The coil pack ignition systems used on these vehicles is very good at "firing" even plugs that are far past their prime so I would be very suspicious of the coil pack for any cylinder with a high misfire count unless the plug is obviously damaged (i.e. cracked insulator).

Glad you made it safely to your mechanic!

Rodger
 
#18 ·
I don't know what caused the spark plugs to need replacing, and the mechanic is checking the coils on the cylinders, they probably need replacing according to what you have told me.
I will keep you updated with what happens and what the mechanic says.
Once again thank you so much for your help, I would probably not know what to do.
 
#19 ·
I am sure it will turn out well.

I wouldn't replace all of the coil packs because they aren't a certain number of miles maintenance item. Just replace any that are failing.

Most cars go to the car graveyard with their factory coil packs still in place while others get one or two new packs over their lives but it would be incredibly unusual for a vehicle to have all coil packs fail. And depending upon the quality of the replacement, you could be replacing a functioning high quality OEM pack with a lesser quality aftermarket part.

The ECM retains a history count of misfire by cylinder and a good scan tool will also display misfire counts in real time so it is easy to identify which cylinder(s) cause the flashing CEL. And generally a weak coil pack or problematic plug will have the most trouble firing at high load, high RPM so full throttle acceleration will often cause the guilty party to reveal itself.

Rodger
 
#20 ·
I am sure it will turn out well.

I wouldn't replace all of the coil packs because they aren't a certain number of miles maintenance item. Just replace any that are failing.

Most cars go to the car graveyard with their factory coil packs still in place while others get one or two new packs over their lives but it would be incredibly unusual for a vehicle to have all coil packs fail. And depending upon the quality of the replacement, you could be replacing a functioning high quality OEM pack with a lesser quality aftermarket part.

The ECM retains a history count of misfire by cylinder and a good scan tool will also display misfire counts in real time so it is easy to identify which cylinder(s) cause the flashing CEL. And generally a weak coil pack or problematic plug will have the most trouble firing at high load, high RPM so full throttle acceleration will often cause the guilty party to reveal itself.

Rodger
Maybe I should go to the car graveyard and find a Cadillac with factory coil packs that work and use them as replacements.

I will get the mechanic to use a scan to check the ECM for the history of misfires by cylinder.
I will try the full throttle acceleration thing you are talking about.
Thanks!
 
#27 ·
There is no way a 3.6L that didn't have significant other issues can build up enough carbon in 72,000 miles to create those sort of dramatic symptoms. There is a huge difference between seeing some carbon buildup on the intake valves and having enough buildup to actually cause a minor loss of power much less severe vibration and DTCs being set.

Maybe if it were an early generation BMW GDI engine which had major issues and required multiple cleanings by the time they hit moderate mileage but these engines regularly go over twice this mileage without carbon buildup creating any issues for the owner. GM and other manufacturers learned lessons from the early experiences of some of the other designers.

Rodger
 
#28 ·
The car has been running amazing before this stuff ever happened, I would rip through the streets and race people and the previous owner took good care of the car and from what you said its definitely not carbon buildup.

Also new thing, the car has been running bad and Stabilitrak turns off after 2 or 3 minutes of starting the car and along with the Stabilitrak turning off the CEL flashes for about 5 to 6 seconds I believe but then stops, I turn the car off and turn it back on and Stabilitrak stays on, but I still have a CEL light (NOT flashing)

After that I drive the car and it does not feel good, When I come to a traffic light and hit the brakes right before stopping the car jerks back and like jerks forward and back and I felt something with the transmission I just can't say what exactly.

One last thing, I still have not replaced the oxygen sensors.
 
#30 ·
The 4th (current generation of the 3.6 GDI which is the third GDI generation) begin use in model year 2016 and it is the current version of the engine. It provides for increased flow and power but no changes were made for carbon concerns. 2008 was the first gen GDI, the inital ATS production got the second gen GDI for early years and the the third gen for 2016 until the end of life.

A lot of the first gen GDI are still on the road and running fine without issue; the only major issue with gen 1 was the timing chain, tensioners, and guide exacerbated by a ridiculously long oil change interval that was corrected early in life.

The same basic carbon buildup strategies of the 3.6 GDI has been used in multiple displacement GDI engines by GM both in 4 valve OHC and 2 valve OHV designs. If carbon buildup were an issue, GM dealerships and independent shops would be loaded with repair work given the huge volume of these engines that have been sold since 2008. Most cars with high miles are going to have greater power loss from buildup in the cats and mufflers than from carbon on the valves, one side effect of these engines is greater exhaust particulate matter which will start to build up at very high miles in the exhaust system but again the rest of the car is probably going to be junk before it becomes significant to the performance of the car.

Cadillac was the initial user of the first 3.6 GDI engine but all of the development work was under GM Powertrain Division (since renamed Global Propulsions Division which better reflects their ICE and EV mandate). The 3.6 has served in platforms across GM and was also available in various incarnations as an OEM industrial engine via Powertrain Division.

Like other GDI engines, it will certainly have some carbon buildup on the valve stem and back of the valve but any issues (loss of power and economy) will occur with very high engine hours and it will not be sudden onset resulting in rough running and DTCs being set.

There is an industry built around selling consumers various "cures and treatments" just like there has been for other automotive concerns since the 1920s. I would be extremely careful with Youtube and other approaches to "the carbon buildup problem" because some of these magic mouse milk formula treatments can easily result in damage ranging from fouled cats through hyrdrolock with resulting bent rods and a windowed block (there is very little "squish space" in these small high compression engines so dribbling any liquid into the intake is a bad idea).

Carbon buildup is an unfortunate side effect of GDI. Some of the earliest designs (i.e. some BMW and VW engines) had horrible issues from a combination of rapid buildup and little robustness against the buildup. Later designs took the approach of both reducing the rate of formation and making engine performance robust against a small amount of buildup. Think of it like your intake air filter, it starts getting dirty from the moment you install it but it continues to function well over a long life because it is designed with the knowledge that there will be buildup.

The most important thing with GDI engines is to ALWAYS use oil formulated to avoid LSPI (low speed pre-ignition) which is a trait of almost all current automotive intended oils. Some specialty oils along with some of those designed for diesel engines don't meet this requirement and using those can definitely cause issues.

There are a lot of things that can go wrong with our cars but carbon buildup isn't one I would lose sleep over. One of the prime reasons I bought my first GDI Cadillac (a 2008 CTS) was because of the carbon buildup issues experienced by BMW along with the woefully undersized cooling system for the BMW 335i I was inches away from purchasing. It was a beautiful car that performed better than the CTS but I made the right choice back in 2008 :)

Rodger
 
#34 ·
I’ve not done it myself, but allegedly the Torque Pro app can read Mode 6 data, and that seems to be the key for what you’re after. Might have an easier time finding a Bluetooth OBD dongle and using the app then getting a scanner, recognizing that you may be limited by what’s available in your country.
 
#38 ·
My 2013 20.0 ATS just had similar issue. Was at a light waiting to get on highway and noticed rough idle. Got on the highway and couldn’t accelerate past like 40mph. Guess you could explain it as rumbling when tryna accelerate with no power. Stabilitrak came on the dash and I got towed. got it scanned and came back as p0301 cylinder 1 misfire.

Go in the car today almost a week later and no engine light. Drove around and seemed fine(going about 20mph) and when I tried to accelerate over like 35 it started doing the same thing but I let off the gas quick and no engine light came on. Made it home going about 15