[Bonz]

Please help...
I am stuck. Lately my 98 SLS has been slow to start (turns over slowly before starting). Another thing I have noticed around the same time frame is that there has been a loud popping noise occasionally right after the car starts. My radio has no volume for about 2 minutes, then I hear a noise (relay?) and the volume will work again.
As of last night, the car will not start at all. It may turn about 1/2 crank before it does nothing. My lights still work and my voltage (on dash) shows between 11.5 - 12.0 volts. I put in a new battery (old one was original) but it didn't solve the problem. I am also noticing the loud pop again occasionally after trying the ignition.
I changed the starter in January this year. I hope the new one hasn't gone bad already.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I am wondering if I am having another component causing a voltage draw. I tried jump starting it with no success - not even cranking over easier...
Please, Please, Please Help me...
Thanks,
Bonz

 

[Krashed989]

I'm not sure about the popping noise, but the slow cranking definatly sounds like a battery problem. Are you sure you got the right battery? It takes a lot of CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) to turn the engine over. Most batteries say the amount of CCA they have on them, printed on a sticker. Does your new battery have the same amount of CCA as the old one?

 

[Bonz]

Hello,

The replacement battery is the same - 880 cold cranking amps. I even had it checked for proper charge before I left the store.

I also had the old battery charged and it was checking good after 1 hour charge. I tried it also with no luck.

It is also not starting with a jump start...


I am really stumped on this one...


Bonz

 

[Krashed989]

First of all, When you go into diagnostics mode, are there any codes?
They should help to point you in the right direction...If there are any.

Other than that, the other thing that comes to mind is starter motor... but I think that would give out a code.

 

[Bonz]

Hello,

I am not sure how to get into diagnostic mode or read the codes once there. Is this something I can do without special equipment? Do I need a code reader?

Thanks for helping me with this... I need to try to get something figured out by end of day tomorrow. My car is sitting in a small parking lot and it will be towed by Monday morning if I don't move it.

Thanks again for the help,

Bonz

 

[Krashed989]

This information was copied and pasted from: http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/cadidiag.html

HOW TO "ENTER" DIAGNOSTIC MODE


To enter diagnostic mode, proceed as follows:

1. Turn ignition "ON." Engine can be either OFF or RUNNING. For cars equipped with the Digital Instrument Panel Display (Digital IPC): Simultaneously press the "OFF and "WARMER" (red) buttons on climate control center (CCC) until all display segments (IPC and CCP) are illuminated
2. For cars equipped with the Analog Instrument Panel Display (Analog IPC): Simultaneously press on the Climate Control Panel (CCP) the "OFF" and "PASS WARMER" (up arrow) buttons.

After the segment display test, the driver message center displays all set DTC, current and history, in the following order:
1.PCM DTC
2.IPC DTC
3.ACM DTC
4.SDM DTC
5.TCS DTC
6.PZM DTC
7.IRC DTC
8.RFA DTC
9.CCP DTC
10.MSM DTC
11.MMM DTC
12.PHN DTC

The RSS, CCP, MSM, MMM and PHN DTC appear only on vehicles equipped with these options. Press the FAN DOWN button in order to bypass the DTC display. On the OBD II cars, the prefixes you'll see are: "IP" for the IPC instrument panel; "AC" for air conditioning module; "TC" for traction control; "RS" for the road suspension system; "SD" for the air bags; "PZ" for the body control module; "CC" for the cell phone; "RF" for the integrated radio system.


HOW TO "EXIT" DIAGNOSTIC MODE


To exit the diagnostic mode anytime during the test, depress the "ECON" or "DEFOG" button, or turn the ignition switch "OFF." Additional information on Trouble Codes and Diagnostic Procedures specific to the 1990 OBD-II Cadillacs.
-------------------------
Once you get the codes, just post them up here and I'll give you the definitions, unless someone beats me to it. :thumbsup:

Or you can follow that link and find them on those pages.

 

[Bonz]

Hello,

Thanks very much. I'll be going back to work on the car in the morning. I will get the diagnostic codes then and will follow the links you posted. I will post my findings here tomorrow.

Hopefully I can get her back up and running tomorrow...

Again, thank you for helping me with this.

Sincerely,

Bonz

 

[Ranger]

Turning over slowly is a pretty good sign that you are not getting the proper voltage to the starter.

How was the battery tested? I have had batteries test good but when put under a load, would not crank. I have also had batteries fail in 6 months or even be bad right off the shelf.

Check the cables closely. Any corrosion on the contacts or under the insulation can wreak havov with the electrical system.

Was the starter you replaced OEM or a cheap aftermarket? If all else checks out and it was an aftermarket (especially a cheap aftermarket) then I would go back and check the starter and the connections to it.

 

[DFBonnett]

Seconds to what Ranger said about possibly a bad starter, especially if it was a rebuilt. There are meters you can use to do a starter draw test. It tells how many amps it is pulling. Often a bad one will pull more amps than can be delivered from any battery or jump. I have a small meter from KD Tools (#2423) that has worked well. It senses the draw through the battery cable. I don't recall what is considered too much draw. It's been a while since I made a living doing this and much technology has passed me by. Perhaps someone can fill in the blanks.

 

[Bonz]

Hello Ranger & DFBonnett,

Thanks for helping with this.


Ranger,

It's funny you said something about a bad battery... I didn't say anything in previous posts to keep from getting too wordy. The first replacement battery I bought yesterday was actually bad (off the shelf). I put it in and it did nothing, not even crank a little. Although the lights and other accessories had enough power, it didn't have enough cca to turn the crank. I took the battery back (AC Delco) and had it checked... It was bad - off the shelf. As is my luck, they didn't have another battery in stock...

My original battery was charged at the same location and tested. They said it was bad... Upon returning the new (bad) battery, I got my old battery back and went hunting for another. By the way, this is the heaviest battery I have every had to tote around...

I went to an Advance Auto Parts store that had (1) in stock. I asked them to check it before I bought it (getting smarter...). It tested with a low charge and needed charging (they must not sell this battery very often and it sits on their shelf too long).

It was getting late and I didn't want to take the chance that the charge wouldn't hold. So, I drove further down the road to an Autozone that had (2) in stock.

Just for the heck of it... I asked them to check my old battery again (AC Delco - Freedom brand). All of a sudden, it tested good (3 times). I figured it is probably going to go bad soon (already 7 years old), so I bought their new one anyway - but kept the old battery too... I just couldn't see giving a $100 good battery away for an $8 core fee. New battery tested good too.

I put the new battery in with no luck... tried the old one again, just for kicks - no luck...

Starter - Unfortunately, the starter was a remanufactured brand from Autozone. I would gladly pay for it again and trade the lifetime warranty for the labor of taking that darned intake off again - lol...

I am still thinking this may have something to do with another component drawing too much power... Am I wrong in believing this??? I am probably leaning this way because I know how much trouble it was to change that starter back in January...

BTW... all the cables look new. No wear or corrosion at all - although I have not checked for a voltage drop (to the starter or the relay box under the hood).

I really don't want to take the intake off in the parking lot the car is in if I don't have to... I also don't want to pay to have it towed back to my house...

I am also getting the feeling I am not going to be able to have my cake and eat it too in this situation... lol.

Thanks again for all your help,

Sincerely,

Bonz

 

[Ranger]

FWIW, I have once heard it said, "Only buy dumb parts from Autozone" (oil, filters, etc). There is a reason that their parts are cheap. They have to cut corners somewhere to sell them that cheap. There is something to be said for OEM parts. I don't know if that is your problem but it looks like that is the next step in the elimination proccess.

 

[Krashed989]

BOTH batteries tested GOOD?!!!? Even after one already tested bad at another place? Chances are, that the guy who tested your batteries and said they were good, either didn't know what he was doing or was using a broken tester.

Since they both obviously have a low charge, try jumping the old one to the one thats in the car right now. Maybe the combined CCA of the two will have enough power.

 

[King3244]

I had all your symptoms and did most of what you have done, i.e. changed batteries and tested batteries, cleaned cables etc..........problem was the starter.
Changed it and wow does that baby ever spin over now! I took my starter in to an electrical shop and had them rebuild it for me. 150 bucks Canadian.

King

 

[Bonz]

Hello,

I checked for codes in the diagnostic mode. At first I got about 15 of them. I think they have never been cleared. I wrote them all down then cleared them. Then tried to start the car again - no luck.

I then ran the code check again and got one code - IPM B-1652

Does anyone know what this code means???

I tried to look it up but was unable to find it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Bonz

 

[Krashed989]

Please tell us all of the codes you wrote down because they will not come back unless the car is driven and they could help to pinpoint the source of the problem.

IPM -- Instrument Panel Integration Module <-the module that sensed the problem
B1652 - Loss of Keep Alive Memory (KAM) <-this code occurs when the battery dies for a long period of time.

 

[caddypete]

It sounds like a short somewhere to me, or a bad ground. If you draw alot of current, like a starter does, and then hear a crack, it is most likely electricity trying to find ground. The pop is the electric spark jumping across to ground. your starter may have worked it's way lose and is not properly grounded.

 

[SteveThefolkie]

check continuity in the battery cable that goes to the starter motor - if you have a multimeter you're just going to check the resistance between the terminal ends (one that attaches to the battery, the other which attaches to the solenoid) - you shouldn't show any appreciable resistance - if you do then the cable is bad.
Also check the ground (negative) connection - make sure it's secure - and check the lead to the solenoid from the ignition switch - you can do this with a test light - attach the alligator clip (thinking standard automotive test light here) to a good ground surface (clean) and probe the connection at the solenoid (should be a small wire connected by a nut) while someone turns the key to the "start" position - the test light should go on when the turn the key against the stop and off when they release it.
If both these tests turn out OK (no resistance on the cable, juice to the solenoid) AND the battery checks out OK under load then you've got a bad starter.
You can try one old trick - whack the side of the starter with a hammer while someone else is turning the key - sometimes that'll get you "one more start" out of a starter motor (not elegant but it can get you home - I drove from Milwaukee Wisconsin to York Pennsylvania straight through once after getting a car started using this method).

Best of luck

Steve

 

[DFBonnett]

It sounds like a short somewhere to me, or a bad ground. If you draw alot of current, like a starter does, and then hear a crack, it is most likely electricity trying to find ground. The pop is the electric spark jumping across to ground. your starter may have worked it's way lose and is not properly grounded.

Or the cable end or stud on the starter broke and the Pos cable end touched the block. That might well account for the "POP" sound. Good call caddypete.

 

[King3244]

The pop is indeed a backfire..............caused by camshaft overlap and a starter that is turning the engine too slow allowing a cylinder that is firing to "backfire" into the intake manifold.

Starter system failure of some sort........probably starter. I would check the battery connections at the posts especially taking apart the double connection on the positive side. if there is no problems there and you have already tested the battery then I am afriad you are going under the intake manifold to R and R your starter.

Remember always disconnect the negative post first........no ground for the battery no sparks anywhere.

As to the comment about whacking the starter with a hammer...............easier said then done on a N*.

King

 

[SteveThefolkie]

As to the comment about whacking the starter with a hammer...............easier said then done on a N*.

I've never been under a N* - the car in question was from a simpler time - 1971 Buick Riv - long, low, shiny and black ..... wish I'd never sold that ride ...

Steve