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Wierd Shifing Problem When Car Is Cold

3K views 30 replies 16 participants last post by  darkman 
#1 ·
Not really sure how this happens. But Friday morning before I left to go to Hot August nights at 5am, I started the car and tried to put it in 1st. The shifter didn't want to engage. I doulbe clutched it a few times and it finally said YES. Then I get to the coffee shop and get my coffee. Get into the car and tried to put the shifter into reverse. Same problem. The shifter didn't like it and wouldn't let me engage it into reverse. So after numerous double clutching and putting the car into random gears I was able to put the transmission into reverse. I had no other shifting problems on my way to Reno.

On the way home. I get into my car at my parents house and try to shift the transmission into reverse again. Nope. It won't let me. Kinda wierd. I just coasted out of the driveway instead.

So what do you guys think is the problem? Maybe not enough trans fluid? Clutch fluid? Maybe finnicky shifter? Maybe my CAGS eliminator isn't cooperating? What do you guys think?
 
#2 ·
Did you try to put it in another gear first other than the one you were trying to get into? For instance, if it wouldn't go into 1st, did you try shifting to second and then into first? That usually works, unless your synchros are shot (which they could be)...do you race the car? miss a lot of shifts and grind gears?
 
#3 ·
Yes. I tried putting it in the other gears and then into 1st. Then I was having problems with putting it into reverse.

This problem only happens randomly. Kinda wierd.

No I never speed shift the car. Never race it. Never have ever grinded a gear. That's why I am thinking it is either the trans fluid or the clutch fluid. Or maybe it has something to do with the electrical unit on the transmission.

The problems only seem to happen when the car is cold. Like early morning. But like I said, it happens randomly. Not every morning.
 
#4 ·
I have a similar prob, the first drive of the day its hard to get into gear and when i take off i have what feels like clutch hoping, you have any anything like that? i think i'm going to bleed the clutch and see if that will fix it.
 
#5 ·
It doesn't really feel like the clutch is hopping. Clutch feels fine. Just feels like I am locked out of the gears for some reason. And double clutching doesn't really allow me to get it in gear either.

I think I may drain the transmission and put some new fluid in it. Any suggestions? I had good results with Redline Shockproof synthetic in my WRX. Seemed to make shifts much more smooth.

http://www.turbobits.co.uk/acatalog/redline_heavy_weight_shockproof_synthetic_gear_oil.html
 
#6 ·
Clutch fluid? Huh? Hehe.. It actually could be a problem w/ the master or slave cyl. not working properly. I think we all really have problems getting into gear at some point.. I usually have to go into 3rd if reverse is hard to get into. Had the same prob. w/ my past Vettes..

If it keeps it up, it would def. be replaced under warranty... GM quality, baby!
 
#8 ·
Not really sure how this happens. But Friday morning before I left to go to Hot August nights at 5am, I started the car and tried to put it in 1st. The shifter didn't want to engage. I doulbe clutched it a few times and it finally said YES. Then I get to the coffee shop and get my coffee. Get into the car and tried to put the shifter into reverse. Same problem. The shifter didn't like it and wouldn't let me engage it into reverse. So after numerous double clutching and putting the car into random gears I was able to put the transmission into reverse. I had no other shifting problems on my way to Reno.

On the way home. I get into my car at my parents house and try to shift the transmission into reverse again. Nope. It won't let me. Kinda wierd. I just coasted out of the driveway instead.

So what do you guys think is the problem? Maybe not enough trans fluid? Clutch fluid? Maybe finnicky shifter? Maybe my CAGS eliminator isn't cooperating? What do you guys think?
As your post recognizes, when you cannot get the car into the gear you want, the standard work-around is to put it into another gear. However, your post does not make it clear that you are doing the whole work-around. Specifically, when you put the car into an alternative gear, like 2nd gear when your trying to get to reverse, you are supposed to relase the clutch enough to rotate the transmission "a little" before reattempting the shift into the desired gear, i.e. reverse.

If you look at the sevice manual regarding the diagnosis of transmission problems the first thing on the trouble shooting sequence is to go find the clutch troubleshooting chart. Under the clutch troubleshooting sequence the first items are clutch pedal related - its adjustment, its spring, etc. After that, the clutch trouble shooting process goes to the hydraulics. This involves the quantity and quality (age) of the brake fluid in the clutch master cylinder, possible kinks in the line, and whether the master cylinder and or slave cylinder could be binding. Bottom line is - check the clutch operation first.

Assuming the clutch operation is okay the next thing would be the quanitity and quality (age) of transmission fluid. Beyond checking the level of, or changing the transmission fluid I would be at the point where I take it to the dealer because troubleshooting the transmission requires diagnostic expertise beyond mine.
 
#9 ·
Well it happened to me again this morning. And it didn't get any better after the transmission warmed up. That's why I am thinking its the clutch fluid.

I do try to put the car in first gear every morning. If I can't, I double clutch it and try 2nd or 4th gear and then back to 1st. It doesn't always work though.

The clutch fluid has 28k miles on it. I will check it at break time during work hours:) I will also check the transmission fluid when I get home today, just in case.

If I do decide on taking it to the dealership, I will need to take off the CAGS eliminator off the transmission before I get there.
 
#10 ·
Putting it into another gear to get into first just puts extra wear on the gear teeth. The reason a car sometimes doesn't want to go into first is that synchros don't work unless the car is moving, and first gear requires the most synchronization to engage. The easiest workaround is to put the car in Neutral and let the clutch out, which will spin things a bit inside the transmission, then clutch in and put it in first. Putting it in another gear is just forcing a non-synchronized shift.

Every manual transmission car I've ever owned has this same behavior, including 3 Miatas (the pinnacle of transmission quality). If it happens constantly, you may be experiencing a problem with the clutch not fully disengaging. Darkman is right on the money as far as causes, such as slave cylinder pressure or aged fluid. You might also make sure that your floormat is not preventing the clutch pedal from going all the way to the floor. It sounds silly, but I've seen it happen.
 
#18 ·
Putting it into another gear to get into first just puts extra wear on the gear teeth. The reason a car sometimes doesn't want to go into first is that synchros don't work unless the car is moving, and first gear requires the most synchronization to engage. The easiest workaround is to put the car in Neutral and let the clutch out, which will spin things a bit inside the transmission, then clutch in and put it in first. Putting it in another gear is just forcing a non-synchronized shift.
I am not exactly clear as to what you mean here. I believe that if you start with the car running, the transmission in neutral, and the clutch engaged (pedal not depressed) that you can then (1) depress the clutch pedal; and (2) put the transmission in any gear you choose without damage. Specifically, you can start out in 2nd gear if you want to. Granted, starting out in higher gears may require a lot clutch work and/or bog the engine, but should not represent a transmission issue. Simply put, there is nothing magic about "first gear" being "first" chronologically.
 
#22 ·
UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I found that my clutch resevoir was almost completely empty. Luckily a friend at work had a bottle of brake fluid in their car. Drove it home and the shifting did feel a bit smoother. We'll just see if it cures the T-56 morning sickness.

I will be bleeding the clutch system very soon. Might put my last bottle of Motul in it. We'll see.
 
#23 ·
UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I found that my clutch resevoir was almost completely empty. Luckily a friend at work had a bottle of brake fluid in their car. Drove it home and the shifting did feel a bit smoother. We'll just see if it cures the T-56 morning sickness.

I will be bleeding the clutch system very soon. Might put my last bottle of Motul in it. We'll see.
AHA - a common problem in the V. For some odd reason the clutch hydraulic fluid seems to disappear and the reservoir needs filled every few months. And the fluid color (black) seems to indicate that it is leaching components (elastomers?) from the hydraulic system seals. Frankly, this seems to be too wide spread a problem to be acceptable. Fluid loss could be the slave cylinder seeping fluid past the seals although I see no fluid leaking from my bell housing. When the slave starts leaking it usually is an indication of a forthcoming failure - at least that has been my experience in several other cars with hydraulic clutches. Has anyone's slave cylinder failed completely yet?
 
#25 ·
Guess I should go check mine to catch it before it goes low. Not sure where the bleed valve is on the CTS-V. Have to learn that as well. On my 02 Corvette Z06, it was tucked up over the clutch in the tunnel. All but impossible to get to - had to lift the car, remove the exhaust center section, remove a heat shield that has something like 38 nuts, then reach up and over the clutch housing. No fun at all. Hope the Vs is easier...

FYI, if you do decide to use AMSOIL ATF (which I have in my 06), the AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program allows you to buy at wholesale, same price us dealers pay, saving you a trip to find a dealer. :cheers:
 
#27 ·
One thing to do when you experience problems shifting is to try shifting with the engine shut off. If it shifts fine and you only experience the problem when the engine is running then you have a problem with the clutct not fully disengaging. I had this problem and the root cause was that the flywheel was 0.020" off and the internals of the tranny were moving.

:thumbsup:
 
#28 ·
I'm thinking I have the same problem. I just cycle the clutch about 20 times before I try to put it into gear in the morning. I once posted the question as to where the bleed is on this clutch and no one answered. I know where it is on a Sunfire...not much help here though!
 
#31 ·
Not as that term is generally used in the context of mechanical linkage, cable actuated cluthes (e.g. motorcycles), on pressure plate clearance (e.g. also on some motorcycles0. The clutch is hydraulically actuated by a master cylinder that is connected to a slave clyinder by a line (rubber hose).

There is one minor adjustment on the pedal and a pedal spring.

Clutch problems can also involve a broken motor mount.
 
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