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OK, my first couple of questions if I may:
1. After recieving my new car last week I noticed the wheel weights were placed outside of the wheel...NOT inside the rim with the common "stick on" type weights. Why is this? Your Nicer, more expensive wheels have the weights placed inside the inner part of the wheel after balancing..not these long clunky eyesores I have on mine. I've noticed other escalades with the same..can someone enlighten me...is it because of the sensors?
2. Secondly, Because of the wheel air sensors, does this mean the vehicle MUST be taken to the dealer for balancing and rotation?
airlaird
 

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OK, my first couple of questions if I may:
1. After recieving my new car last week I noticed the wheel weights were placed outside of the wheel...NOT inside the rim with the common "stick on" type weights. Why is this? ...
I agree with you but do not know. I had chromed wheels on a BMW many years ago that came from the factory with "inside" weights. My first set of replacement tires was at a lousy shop (in many ways) and they did "eyesore" weights. The replacements for those were done at another shop with "inside" weights. Probably, GM's wheel factory doesn't know how to use "inside" weights... they need a different mounting machine, from what I understand.

2. Secondly, Because of the wheel air sensors, does this mean the vehicle MUST be taken to the dealer for balancing and rotation?
airlaird
Nope. I have a shop down the street from me who just bought $40k in equipment (they tell me) so they can mount large wheels and chromed wheels (they claim the machine never touches the wheel rim) and they know all about the factory sensors, now. They fixed a screw puncture in my tire on my 22" wheels on my '07 Escalade with no problems last week.

Dave
 

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The wider the wheels get, the more the laws of physics come into play. In order to get a perfect balance it may be neccessary to hang some of the weights on the outside lip. Twice I have had to have a wheel balance job done over because the shop used hidden inside weights and they were not adequate. I can't see the wheel weights hung on the outside of the wheels as I drive down the road but I sure can feel a bad balance job. Another case of style over substance, the engineers nightmare.
 

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The wider the wheels get, the more the laws of physics come into play.
I'm not sure which law would require outside weights. Any way I can think about this problem (and I'll grant that I might not be thinking about it, right), inside weights would always be better. One problem I've heard, however, is that the inside weights are less heavy per unit area. Hence, if you need a lot of weight (and my outside weights are LARGE), inside weights might simply not be an option... which now begs the real question; why are these wheels/tires so terribly out of balance? But that's another thread...

Dave
 

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Larger tires and wheels nearly ALWAYS need more weight to properly balance then smaller wheels and tires. When tires and wheels are new when possible the high and low spots of the tire and wheel are matched together to help further reduce the amount of weight needed, thats called Match Mounting. Its especially useful with large wheel and tire combos. As for the reason some wheels have weight on the outside, or in most cases with wheels balanced having hammer-on weights on the inside and outside is the most uniform method of balancing. This method is called dynamic balancing.

The reason dynamic balance is the most widespread is because each side of the tire and wheel has a high and low spot and needs to be balanced accordingly. You can dynamic balance wheels with stick-on weights hidden behind the wheels spokes, but thats mostly for cosmetics, though some wheels require stick-on weights due to outside lip design.

Also any decent tire shop will have the same machines your car dealership will, infact more often than not dealerships bring us wheels that they can't balance. They know its our business and we can do it properly and without issues.
 

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The wheel air sensors can be adjusted after rotation by reading the manual.

I changed a flat myself one day in a hurry and the sensor read zero for that tire. I plugged the hole in the tire and inflated it while it was off the vehicle and could see the pressure rising on the dash readout. I could then put the tire on any of the four positions and reset the sender to know which one was on which wheel.

Can also reset the oil life remaining to zero if I want to (using my manual) as I go to local oil change shops.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Pete
 

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OK, my first couple of questions if I may:
1. After recieving my new car last week I noticed the wheel weights were placed outside of the wheel...NOT inside the rim with the common "stick on" type weights. Why is this? Your Nicer, more expensive wheels have the weights placed inside the inner part of the wheel after balancing..not these long clunky eyesores I have on mine. I've noticed other escalades with the same..can someone enlighten me...is it because of the sensors?
2. Secondly, Because of the wheel air sensors, does this mean the vehicle MUST be taken to the dealer for balancing and rotation?
airlaird
Most American car manufacturers HAMMER on the weights, often damaging the wheels, my Z06's were the same way, the first thing I do is get the wheels balanced by someone with a Road Force Balancer, carefully take the hammer on weights off and put the stick on weights inside, so it does not look like monkeys put the weights on. Nothing looks worse than having a nice set of wheels and seeing the hammer on dull weights :( You can reset the pressure sensors by putting air in or removing air to activate the sensors, one of my 07' would not work this way, I purchased a tire pressure reset tool, but I have two 07' and switch froim winter to summer wheels and tires due to where I live and drive, so for me it was worth the money, if your in the Phila area I will reset your sensons for you. :)
 

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The drive-on weights are a joke! I asked my dealership to switch them to stick on before I picked up the vehicle....however was then told that they could not warranty the balance of the stick on weights! I do not know what "law of physics" here is coming into play; I have had one truck on 38" tires on 20" wheels, one on 37" tires with 20's, and another on 44's on 17's; all balanced fine using stick on weights! It is a shame that American manufacturers create such aesthetically pleasing premium wheels and then completely screw them up with drive-on weights. Have both a Range Rover and a Maserati (20" & 19" wheels respectively) that all have stick on weights...perfect balance. GM really needs to get on the ball here. And no, you do not need a special machine to use stick-on weights; just a non-lazy tech.
 

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Unless your dealer has a Road Force Balancer do not let them touch your wheels, look for someone with a Hunter GSP9700, you will never have your wheels balanced any other way, trust me. :)
 

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The drive-on weights are a joke! I asked my dealership to switch them to stick on before I picked up the vehicle....however was then told that they could not warranty the balance of the stick on weights! I do not know what "law of physics" here is coming into play; I have had one truck on 38" tires on 20" wheels, one on 37" tires with 20's, and another on 44's on 17's; all balanced fine using stick on weights! It is a shame that American manufacturers create such aesthetically pleasing premium wheels and then completely screw them up with drive-on weights. Have both a Range Rover and a Maserati (20" & 19" wheels respectively) that all have stick on weights...perfect balance. GM really needs to get on the ball here. And no, you do not need a special machine to use stick-on weights; just a non-lazy tech.
Who said you need a special machine for stick-on weights? You don't. Now it helps that some Hunter Balancers, and Hunter Road Force Balancers have the ability to reduce the weight thats needed when balancing wheels and tires.

But you are right, it takes someone who isn't lazy.
 

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If you are trying to correct a dynamic imbalance condition, you have the choice of a given weight at the rim or a heavier weight hidden behind a spoke because of the reduced leverage. A wheel/tire can be most efficiently balanced with the lightest weights if the weights can be placed the greatest distance from the center of the rim. Weight X arm length = moment. If hiding the weights is important to you it may require considerabely more weight depending on wheel design. When wheels are balanced you have to deal with radial imbalances that make the wheel appear to have a heavy side as well as the dynamic imballances that are the type that make the steering wheel shake. Correcting these imbalances with the minimum additon of weights can be a very tricky process because the weights interact. If this were not the case any dipstick could balance wheels with a bubble balancer rather than use a machine that costs five figures or more. My preference is an accurate balance with the minimum weight. Others with more esthetic interests have to have hidden weights and are willing to tolerate a less efficient setup. To each his own.
 

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Weight X arm length = moment.
:banghead:

Of course! Makes perfect sense, but... maybe I will start the thread, why are wheels and tires so out of balance? Do any of you know how close the wheels are to "perfect?" I would suspect they could be made very close, but I can see that tires are a harder problem to get right, and as soon as you get a rock stuck in a tread it's all over, anyway; but with a larger wheel, and thus a larger arm length, it seems a smaller weight would work fine if the wheels were really close to balanced. Then I'll start posting on the Bridgetone message board (like they have one with all their issues).

Thanks for the insightful comments, here.

Dave
 

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:banghead:

Of course! Makes perfect sense, but... maybe I will start the thread, why are wheels and tires so out of balance? Do any of you know how close the wheels are to "perfect?" I would suspect they could be made very close, but I can see that tires are a harder problem to get right, and as soon as you get a rock stuck in a tread it's all over, anyway; but with a larger wheel, and thus a larger arm length, it seems a smaller weight would work fine if the wheels were really close to balanced. Then I'll start posting on the Bridgetone message board (like they have one with all their issues).

Thanks for the insightful comments, here.

Dave
Most tires and wheels are within .25 to .50 oz off AT MOST. Some tires and wheels on occasion may need up to 1oz to 1.50oz when mounted together, anything more than that and I'd consider the tire and/or wheel to have build issues.
 

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Some tires and wheels on occasion may need up to 1oz to 1.50oz when mounted together, anything more than that and I'd consider the tire and/or wheel to have build issues.
I've got 2.5 oz on one wheel, at least. Hmmm... maybe I'll check the other cars on the lot when I visit my dealer next week. I know nothing will be done, but I like to know what I'm up against for the next time I do wheels and/or tires.

Thanks,
Dave
 
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