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Discussion Starter #1
The performance king of all Caddies is capable of serious haste. In our first road test, we pedaled a manual CTS-V to 60 mph in 4.3 seconds, to 100 in 9.7, through the quarter-mile in 12.6 at 116 mph, and on to a top speed of 191 mph. Heady numbers. But the automatic CTS-V trumps almost all of them:


C/D
TEST RESULTS:

Zero to 60 mph: 3.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 8.7 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 14.8 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 4.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.2 sec @ 119 mph
Top speed (redline limited): 176 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 154 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.89 g


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/furious_four_doors/2009_cadillac_cts_v_automatic_short_take_road_test
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Hey Manual owners... U wanna get into the best MOD of them all... able to trim serious time off your runs???

BUY AN AUTOMATIC!!!:thumbsup:


a message presented 2 U by the one and only... Cmicasa the Great XvX:yup:
 

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Wait a minute. Unless I'm a total moron, how can you get from 0-60 faster than a rolling start of 5-60?
 

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Wait a minute. Unless I'm a total moron, how can you get from 0-60 faster than a rolling start of 5-60?
Launch control?
Not sure how it works, but with this thing's torque you may get more tire spin starting at 5mph than you do starting at 0 with the launch control.

Hey Manual owners... U wanna get into the best MOD of them all... able to trim serious time off your runs???
BUY AN AUTOMATIC!!!:thumbsup:
a message presented 2 U by the one and only... Cmicasa the Great XvX:yup:
People choose manual for the driving experience, not to shave fractions of a second off of their 1/4 mile. No automatic will connect you to a car like a good manual will.
It's good to see GM unlocking the performance potential of automatic technology, but the best driving experience for an enthusiast will always be the one where the driver has complete control.

Connection to the car and a better driving experience are also the reasons why many enthusiasts consider older BMW's superior to the newer models, even though the newer ones are much faster. I think now that Cadillac has a couple generations of performance cars with varying options under their belt, that we will begin to see the same division within Cadillac owners (those who buy one because it is a fast car with a roundel and those who buy it because it offers a raw driving experience).
 

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While it is insignificant, the only spot where a manual would lose to an automatic would be the launch because of the launch control. Without dealing with the power robbing torque converter the manual is putting more power to the wheels than the automatic and in any other rolling start the manual would win, given the driver can drive.
 

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Launch control?
Not sure how it works, but with this thing's torque you may get more tire spin starting at 5mph than you do starting at 0 with the launch control.
If you say so, I still don't see it but that's me.
 

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maybe extra timing pulled on a manual vs. the auto during hard launches to protect driveline?


F
 

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~

While it is insignificant, the only spot where a manual would lose to an automatic would be the launch because of the launch control. Without dealing with the power robbing torque converter the manual is putting more power to the wheels than the automatic and in any other rolling start the manual would win, given the driver can drive.

Launch control???


(from the Car & Driver article linked to above)


"In the end, we got our best acceleration rush by simply clicking the shift lever into D and standing on the gas. This has to be done judiciously, or your run will go up in smoke—there’s no launch control here. But even with all that brute force on tap, the throttle response is sensitive enough to manage power delivery without too much unseemly wheelspin, and its automatic up- and downshifts are both smooth and prompt."


And here we go again... :rolleyes:

It's funny how all the manual transmission folks always come out proclaiming all the *advantages* and *superiority* of bolt-actions whenever the subject comes up... Yet whenever anything comes along even remotely suggesting an automatic has an advantage of any kind those same manual fanatics say things sounding remarkably like "that doesn't count...", or "can't be possible...", or "no way, dude", or "nanny, nanny, boo, boo..."

To me, the whole cart is fantastic, regardless of which transmission it uses. And it's plenty damn fast, no matter which tranny it uses. And in all honesty, how many owners out there are ever really going to be in situations often enough where a couple of tenths of a second are really going make any real difference?

Seems to me that if one were truly looking for real ultimate performance then the CTS-V is not the car they would have chosen. After all, it is a four-door luxury sedan, not a two-door, mid-engined sports coupe.

Just my two-cents... YMMV.

Dallara




~
 

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04 CTS-V, 05 STS, 07 SRX- All sold :(
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Not only did Heinricy set the Nurburgring record in an Auto, but in the R&T shootout between the V and M5, Bill Auberlen jumped into the SMG M5 when he got whooped the first lap out in the Stick. Yes, I know that the SMG is an "automatic manual", but it still provides no more of this much ballyhooed "driver involvement" that everyone crows about- you click a paddle, just like the V.

This is an argument that will rage on as long as cars are being built. 99% of the drivers on the road are incapable of exploring the limits of even a 140hp Miata, much less a 556hp CTS-V, which makes it funny watching people argue the merits of car control from one transmission to the next.
 

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Not only did Heinricy set the Nurburgring record in an Auto
...only because he was comfortable with it after having driven it for a week. How many times do we have to repeat this same, exact explanation? He's already been quoted, directly, on camera, as saying he'd prefer the stick.

99% of the drivers on the road are incapable of exploring the limits of even a 140hp Miata, much less a 556hp CTS-V, which makes it funny watching people argue the merits of car control from one transmission to the next.
Yeah, but, there are some of us (1%?) that actually can... :)

jas
 

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Wow, not only is the automatic much more convenient, it is a performance inhancement to boot. Long live the automatic transmission.
 

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...only because he was comfortable with it after having driven it for a week. How many times do we have to repeat this same, exact explanation? He's already been quoted, directly, on camera, as saying he'd prefer the stick.
Nothing to add about Auberlen? There's a World Challenge champion who turned a much better lap time in the SMG than the stick, all without the mythical "connection" that all the purists think they want.

Yeah, but, there are some of us (1%?) that actually can... :)

jas
...and you are the 1% that actually has a reason for buying the stick. :)
 

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I don't understand this everlasting debate so I won't get into that part of it..I can see the overwhelming appeal of both for different reasons.

The car is VERY hard to launch at track (in fact--much harder at track than on the street). And this is with the Auto. Been to the track three times--maybe 20 tries in all. Best is now [email protected]. Best trap is 121. But many of the runs did go up in smoke--high 12s and worse. Just hard to modulate the throttle--and I mean well beyond launch--a good part of the way down the track and into the higher gears. But then again..as fast as this car is--I would say its weakest spot is the 1/4 mile--if you can call ia 12.1 bone stock car weak. Its just not built for that. I will gurantee that someone will catch a good launch soon (mine have all been around 2.0) and get 11s--there is no doubt.
 

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I bought the manual already knowing the auto was going to be a bit faster (I didn't realize a full second to 100) due to better gearing.

Reason 1: For me it is the whole driving experince part of it. I'd rather chew my food than drink it through a straw even if it might be somewhat harder to digest.

Reason 2: If I tune or mod my car, I still know exactly how the manual tranny is going to behave (however I want it to). The auto is just that, automatically controlled by something other than me. This was a MAJOR issue for all of the guys modding the Jeep SRTs. These guys were making huge power only to get shut down my the torque management system.

Reason 3: I don't trust the bean counters.


http://aamcoofupland.com/images/Exploded 4L603.jpg

I'm sure that the auto box will prove out to be great, but for this kind of money (a lot for me) I'll go manual.
 

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Theres another thing to this when it comes to a track where you use the steering wheel. Most people have very little POSITIVE experience with healtoeing. I was at the TWS http://www.thedriversedge.net/02_tracks.htm driving my step 335 (in the entry class) and passed even c6-z06s in the turns. A S2000 went off track and flipped end over end and a Cayman went through a fence. If you don't have some experience AND regularly practice with a stick (even in a straight line), its tough to make a car go faster and its EASY to end up having a yard sale.
 

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Nothing to add about Auberlen? There's a World Challenge champion who turned a much better lap time in the SMG than the stick, all without the mythical "connection" that all the purists think they want.



...and you are the 1% that actually has a reason for buying the stick. :)

The SMG is far superior to any automatic when it comes to track performance, that why you see ferraris with F1 gearboxes and not an automatic.

And anyway the manual is for the driving experience, im not buying this car to race m5s around laguna seca, im getting it to have as a nice fun daily driver.

Let the wars stop, just know that the automatic has as many disadvantdges as the manual.
 

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Someone noted that a lot of folks don't do a good job at heel-and-toeing. True. And a lot of cars have sucky pedal relationships for doing it, too, to keep you from getting your foot on the gas and brake at the same time.

The flipside of that is that with an automatic you can left-foot brake, which is the fast way around a track if you (once again) know what you're doing and have a car that can do it. It's what the F1 guys are doing with their feet while their hands are shifting. And something that's (usually) impossible with a stick.

I've got both stick and slushbox daily drivers and I've got no particular philosophical objection to an automatic. For me it's all about how it's set up. If you've got an engine that's got a nice torque curve, and an automatic that's set up to shift crisply up and down without thumping your head off the headrest, AND will do a proper kickdown with 2cm of quick gas pedal movement, AND has a good control setup that'll let you manually select whatever highest gear you want to be in, I'm quite happy with the slushbox.

Far too many automakers have gotten cutesy with the slushboxes, though. Whether it's the Germans who want their automatics to start in second gear and ooze out their shifts for two full seconds, or all the CAFE-friendly "you want a downshift in what decade?" anti-kickdown programming, or the idiot shifter designers like the Ford Fusion's first-or-fifth-nothing-in-between shifter, a whole lot of automatics out there these days are worse to live with than the 4L80E in my ratty old ld '91 big-block Suburban. Or a '66 Falcon with a C4, for that matter.

So, while my CTS-V biases might conceptually lean toward an automatic I'd have to drive it first.

As for SMGs - they come in a lot of different flavors. The one in the M5 is a fairly early-generation piece, the issue with it isn't how it works when you're on it hard, it's whether you can live with it the rest of the time. That's where the dual-clutch boxes come in, what Ricardo did for VAG, and what BMW is introducing in a couple newer models.

With an engine as torque-fat as the LSA any SMG advantage over the torque-converter-coupled planetary automatic is purely conceptual. The E60 M5 needs the SMG because it's very short on low-RPM torque and has a fairly narrow useful torque band. The 6-speed manual box in the E60 M5 was a last-minute bodge and doesn't work well enough to bother with.
 
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