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'14 ATS Premium with 3 pedals | Past: '13 ATS Performance & '99 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have a friend, who has a Toyota Camry 1997, and because the car has started to produce too many problems he decided to buy a new Camry or Corolla. He himself likes appearance and looks of American cars more, however he is unsure about the quality of American cars, and since I usually dont like to argue with people about such decisions (else whatever happens for their car they will consider me as guilty!), I simply walked after him to a famous Toyota dealership.

I always have negative feelings toward Toyota, because of their vanity. I was very curious to see Toyota after the massive recalls and problems, and here is the story which includes discussions about American cars and Cadillac too:

We went to a very famous Toyota dealership in AZ valley. I prefer not to name it here, anyhow, they called themselves one of the top ten high ratted dealerships in the US, as they have been congratulating themselves by hanging posters around. :D

A salesman walked to us, similar to all other salesmans he was very friendly.
I thought Toyota has ceased selling the cars that are in recall list, but I could see all of those recalled Toyotas in lot, which were ready to sell. I asked the saleman about recalls and the Toyotas in the lot to see whether they have applied the fixes on them or not. He shook his head (as wise wise people do against morons) and started to say that it is a myth, as Toyota has dominated all the automobile market, governments (he said "governments" not "government") are trying to pull down Toyota to have some more portion of market for government owned car companies. When he called problem of Toyotas a myth, I wanted to reply "Yes, in this country people usually follow the things that they hear from others without reasoning, and most of them are nothing, but myth, and the big myth in the first place is Toyota is the best car, and American cars and junk cars". However I didn't say it, since we were there for shopping, not for fighting! :D But the vanity and selfish behavior of Toyota salesman was really annoying for me, as he consider Toyota the best and the innocent and saying that "governments" are after Toyota! How selfish a company can be!

The salesman continued all of this is just about a single sensor, and with a very simple ten minute inspection the problem can be identified in car! :suspect: I had nothing to say to the guy by hearing this!:eek: What the hell is this sensor that causes sticky gas pedal, ABS problems, and floor map problem :cookoo:I believe Toyota's #1 fault now is dishonesty, and then mechanical or electrical issues in their cars! By this claim, all of my hopes that Toyota will be a bit modest disappeared. I have heard that demand for Toyota is increased, because people think that after these problems, they have more room to bargain down the price, but it seems that No! Toyota is more selfish than this, and all the prices were so firm, and even they may take advantageous of this opportunity to trap customers that think they are going to get big discounts from Toyota!

After these discussions, we went to take a look to the cars. First was a 4 Cylinder Camry SE 2009. Just after stepping inside Camry I said myself what the hell is this! Inside of Camry was all cheap plastic! Exterior does not look bad, but interior is very cheap, and much more important number of options in car is very very limited, and the car is very basic. Notice SE is not base model of Camry! I asked about warranty, and possibility of extending bumper to bumper warranty. He replied the car comes with 100K power train warranty and warranty is not needed for other electrical or mechanical systems, since in Toyota they are not going to have problem. Again another wrong statement from saleman! I replied no, such electrical problems are more common than power train problems, and still we may need warranty for them, and as example I said in my STS I have had a lot of troubles with electrical issues more than powertrain. (I guess I should not use this example in Toyota dealership! :D). He raised his head as a champion, and replied:
That is why Toyota is better than American cars, because American cars have a lot of options on them, they may malfunction, but Toyota has no option, so it always work and so it is better" I believe we need to put all of philosophical books in fire, and put this single statement instead of them!:headcase: However it was a big confession from a Toyota salesman! Indeed this is pretty true that most of reliability of Toyota is coming from this fact that there is nothing inside car to malfunction, but can we consider this as an advantageous!?

Then we went to see a Corolla 2008, and another 2009 Corolla. I am not sure about their models, but this is enough to say that when we close the doors of car, it sounds some thing like a an empty can when dropp on ground! The metal layer is so thin, and it seems that there is no strong framework inside the door! Inside the car was as cheap as Camry, and even more!

We saw a Toyota Avalon 2010 too, and the shape of car was very similar to old 1995 Avalon and 1990 Lexus! 20 years and no big change! (Except more curvy head and ass)

Just after seating in his 1997 Camry to drive back home, I said: Hey, your 1997 Camry is as equipped as 2009 Camry, (Indeed the both has no special options, however after 12 years the car should have some more standard options and systems on it), it is stronger than Camry 2009, and much more important the quality of material inside is higher than that of new Camry, and the body looks to be stronger than 2009 Camry, the only advantagous of new Camry is it is newer and has lower milage, BUT you need to pay more than 15K to give this Camry and get that one, and my friend admitted just by an small shake of his head!

Overall, during 80s, and earlly 90s, when American big 3 companies were not producing excellent cars, Toyota was doing pretty well. But it seems that it is about 10 years that Toyota started to reduce quality of cars to earn more money, and is relying just on its reputation, instead of quality of cars. Instead American companies have rebuilt and renovated themselves again, especially GM, and most of their cars are really good, in term of quality, beauty, reliability, and gas consumption. They still need to keep producing good cars to re-earn people's trust, and rebuilt their reputation. At the end, I hope loyal Toyota costumers reconsider and reevaluate their feelings toward Toyota to see how Toyota is taking advantageous of their loyalty to sell them cheap-built cars, under the name of best car in the world!
 

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White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
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I could not have kept my mouth shut with such an arrogant salesman. I most likely would have been asked to leave.
 

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02 Escalade | 02 Corvette "Goldilocks" | 03 Blazer 4x4 | 92 Caprice Wagon LS1/T56
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^ Me too. lol I would have heckled him for hours, or until security/police showed up. ridiculously stupid.
 

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2003 Cadillac Seville STS 73k Miles, '90 Chevy 1500 Reg Cab
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You are a better man that I would be, I'm pretty sure I would've been banned from the dealership after listening to that idiot drone on....but then again I don't think I'd be caught dead in a Toyota dealership.
 

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'14 ATS Premium with 3 pedals | Past: '13 ATS Performance & '99 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #6
I could not have kept my mouth shut with such an arrogant salesman. I most likely would have been asked to leave.
Yes Ranger, it was so hard to tolerate his arrogance, but I did not discuss with him since 1- I was there for a friend, so prefer to leave the salesman for himself to see what is his deal at the end, BUT at the end there was no especial deal!
2- I was conduction a scientific experiment to evaluate "Toyota Syndrome", so I let the "salesman under study" to feel free to say whatever he likes, and the result of study is: not only the syndrome is not cured yet, but also the condition is getting worse!:helpless::histeric:
 

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'14 ATS Premium with 3 pedals | Past: '13 ATS Performance & '99 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #8
Wow, I hate arrogant fools like that.
The problem is still there are (a lot of) people that fooled by Toyota, and think all of this is just an story! They may realize the fact when their Toyota is going by 100m/h in shopping Mal lot!:cool: One of my hobbies these days going to CNN toyota recall news and reading the comments of loyal toyota owners that still trying to defense Toyota! :alchi:
 

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'14 ATS Premium with 3 pedals | Past: '13 ATS Performance & '99 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #9
You are a better man that I would be, I'm pretty sure I would've been banned from the dealership after listening to that idiot drone on....but then again I don't think I'd be caught dead in a Toyota dealership.
To be honest I was going to punch in his face, when I pointed to common electrical problem in my STS and he tried to use it against myself and Cadillac and saying that "Toyota does not have those options, so it is better!":banghead:, but I controlled myself!
 

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Cadillac 95 STS, 02 SLS
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How mis-informed the young pup of a Toyota saleman is about the history of his compnay. When Toyotas were beginning to be market in then U.S. one of their main claims to desirability was that they came much more fully equipped in their "standard" form than their American competition. The reputation for reliability and quality build was not established as yet so they loaded thir cars with many accessories that were included in the price. The cars were not available as "strippers" while Toyota touted this as value, the real reason the cars came this way was that given that the cars were, at that time made in Japanese factories and shipped a long way across the Pacific it really wasn't possible to cater to individual customer preferences as far as additional equipment.
 

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'14 ATS Premium with 3 pedals | Past: '13 ATS Performance & '99 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #11
How mis-informed the young pup of a Toyota saleman is about the history of his compnay. When Toyotas were beginning to be market in then U.S. one of their main claims to desirability was that they came much more fully equipped in their "standard" form than their American competition. The reputation for reliability and quality build was not established as yet so they loaded thir cars with many accessories that were included in the price. The cars were not available as "strippers" while Toyota touted this as value, the real reason the cars came this way was that given that the cars were, at that time made in Japanese factories and shipped a long way across the Pacific it really wasn't possible to cater to individual customer preferences as far as additional equipment.
I did not know it, this is a good piece of info, thanks:highfive:
 

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'14 ATS Premium with 3 pedals | Past: '13 ATS Performance & '99 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #13
Always remember the car salesman's creed: "There's an ass for every seat."
This creed is usually used for selling an abounded junk car in a cornet of their lot, meaning that an idiot will finally appear to buy it, but now the discussion is about 8 different massively produced brands of Toyota. They may need some thing more than this creed to sell them! Good luck Toyota with it!:bouncy:
 

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'93 Cadillac 60 Special; '03 Lincoln TownCar Limited ED
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I would never lower myself to walking into a _______ *_____dealership

* =
Toyopet
honDUH
PissON
KIA (Killed in Accident)
Mazolla
or
Mixed-up-bitchy

Only if I needed to use the bathroom and leave something be-hind.
I am an American - There, I support America and American products.
I speak English, the native tongue of America.
I celebrate American Holidays, and respect them, by flying the flag
.I would do the same, if I was a Japanese citizen, living in Japan, and support Japan,
as I do here & now,support America in America.

You DO have a choice. You VOTE with your dollars.
What are you voting for ? The economy & stability of the nation you are living in and probably were born into.
That's all. Nothing more / Nothing Less.

The beauty of it all is that we are free to make our own decessions.We can purchase anything we want.
But with that vast freedom, comes responcibility.

If ya think things are tough now..... wait & see how it would be if GM, Chrysler & Ford
collapsed, taking with them all workers, all outside vendors and all outside manufacturers,
advertising agencies, out of work technicians, designers, and only about a million others.
 

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STS-V
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801 Posts
I have had my STS-V since August and so far I had a wheel hub fail and steering wheel heater fail. The passenger seat belt latch squeeks and seal on the driver's door has come loose. I still love driving the car and I am happy that I have a 6 year 100k bumper to bumper warranty. However my 2003 Honda Accord has had only one problem in 135K miles. The idle air bypass valve failed. I had a 1984 Toyota PU that I drove 235K miles and the only failure I had was with the cooling fan clutch at 150K. Between those cars I had 2 Dodge Caravans. Both Caravans needed transmission rebuilds by 100k. It has been my personal experience that the Toyota and Honda's have been more reliable than either the Cadillac and Dodges. I will continue to drive the Cadillac but I will sell it before the warranty expires.

Bob
 

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'14 ATS Premium with 3 pedals | Past: '13 ATS Performance & '99 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #17
I would never lower myself to walking into a _______ *_____dealership

* =
Toyopet
honDUH
PissON
KIA (Killed in Accident)
Mazolla
or
Mixed-up-bitchy

Only if I needed to use the bathroom and leave something be-hind.
I am an American - There, I support America and American products.
I speak English, the native tongue of America.
I celebrate American Holidays, and respect them, by flying the flag
.I would do the same, if I was a Japanese citizen, living in Japan, and support Japan,
as I do here & now,support America in America.

You DO have a choice. You VOTE with your dollars.
What are you voting for ? The economy & stability of the nation you are living in and probably were born into.
That's all. Nothing more / Nothing Less.

The beauty of it all is that we are free to make our own decessions.We can purchase anything we want.
But with that vast freedom, comes responcibility.

If ya think things are tough now..... wait & see how it would be if GM, Chrysler & Ford
collapsed, taking with them all workers, all outside vendors and all outside manufacturers,
advertising agencies, out of work technicians, designers, and only about a million others.
I respect you patriotism sir, but did you read my post?
 

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'14 ATS Premium with 3 pedals | Past: '13 ATS Performance & '99 Seville STS
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5,847 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I have had my STS-V since August and so far I had a wheel hub fail and steering wheel heater fail. The passenger seat belt latch squeeks and seal on the driver's door has come loose. I still love driving the car and I am happy that I have a 6 year 100k bumper to bumper warranty. However my 2003 Honda Accord has had only one problem in 135K miles. The idle air bypass valve failed. I had a 1984 Toyota PU that I drove 235K miles and the only failure I had was with the cooling fan clutch at 150K. Between those cars I had 2 Dodge Caravans. Both Caravans needed transmission rebuilds by 100k. It has been my personal experience that the Toyota and Honda's have been more reliable than either the Cadillac and Dodges. I will continue to drive the Cadillac but I will sell it before the warranty expires.

Bob
1- You are totally right about warranty, driving an expensive cadillac without warranty is not a good idea, it can have very costly and frequent problems.

2- Here the discussion is about new Toyota's, 95 toyota was good, as my friends 97 Camry was so reliable that he went to Toyota again, but what about new ones? It seems that Toyota is producing cheap cars and is just using its reputation to sell cars, that is my problem.

3- Do you have uploaded your STS V photos some where in forum? :D I always love to see those cars....
 

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2016 Honda Accord LX. Previous: 2004 Deville, 2000 STS
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Before I owned my STS I had a 2000 Camry LE. It was my grandmothers car purchased new and when she passed away my parents bought it for me as my first car. It had 32k miles on it when I got it in 2006 and I put about 40k miles on it over 2 years and during that time I changed the oil, put a set of tires on it, front brakes, and some other miscellaneous things but otherwise I didn't spend alot of money on it. The car was pretty nicely loaded for a Camry; leather seats, sunroof, alloy wheels, two-tone paint (it looked just like a Lexus ES300; Super White/Oak with Oak leather interior). Had a 2.2L 4 cylinder that got 24MPG in the highway and got around 32MPG on the highway. Slow, but dead reliable. My point is the car certainly wasn't exciting but damn it was certainly reliable. The materials were soft to the touch, and they all held up well (My STS hasn't been so lucky in that department). Before I got my STS I was looking at getting another Camry (looked at '02's and some '07's) and they all felt cheap. The materials were thinner and even little things like carpet and headliner were just cheaper and it definitely looked the part. They also didn't drive as well as expected and I would've just kept my Camry, but I ended up with my STS which I've been more than happy with.

My point is that Toyota used to build a great car, but lately they've been building junk that I would never want to drive. I'd be much happier in an Accord, Fusion or Malibu if I had to drive a midsize car.
 

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1992 Town Car Cartier & 2014 Accord LX MTX
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I'd like to pull up to a Toyota store in a '75 Lincoln, and walk in with a t-shirt on that says **** TOYOTA in all caps. Just seeing people's reactions would be priceless.
 
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