what engine is in the 81 coupe deville
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I don't think they started using the 4.1 until '82.
The '81 should have a 368, I believe.
The '81 should have a 368, I believe.
"The '81 should have a 368, I believe"
and hopefully not the 8-6-4
and hopefully not the 8-6-4
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong but.......don't the 368 and the 4-6-8 (8-6-4) use the same block? It was the electronics that made them different, right?
yep - Buick. I was "economy option":lol2dfx said:
90-degree, overhead valve V-6. Cast iron block and head
252 cu. in. (4.1 liters)
Bore and stroke: 3.965 x 3.40 in.
Compression ratio: 8.0:1
125bhp at 3800 R.P.M.
Torque: 210 lbs.-ft. at 2000 R.P.M.
4-bbl carburetor
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It looks as though you are correct.vanaisa said:
http://100megsfree4.com/cadillac/cad1980/cad81d.htm
I guess the 368 was never offered any way except in the V8-6-4 configuration.
It looks like the Buick V6 was the best engine offered.
1995 ETC, 75 Deville, Cad500 powered 73 Apollo, 94 Mark VIII
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If I recall, the 368 was without multi-displacement (MD, 8-6-4) in '80, in '81 the FW limos, and in the commercial chassis in '81-'83. The 368 MD was in all models except limos/commercial in '81, and then in limos from '82-'84.
I'd rather have a 368MD than the Buick V6 because I'm pretty sure the MD can be disabled (although some people find it to work fine). Plus it would probably be easier if you ever feel like swapping a 500/472 in. The Buick V6 and the HT4100 just don't put out enough power for a 2 ton Cadillac in my opinion.
I'd rather have a 368MD than the Buick V6 because I'm pretty sure the MD can be disabled (although some people find it to work fine). Plus it would probably be easier if you ever feel like swapping a 500/472 in. The Buick V6 and the HT4100 just don't put out enough power for a 2 ton Cadillac in my opinion.
The Buick V6 CAN actually be beefed-up quite easily, and YES it was 4.1 liter 4bbl. The 368 was available with or without the MD gear depending on the year. As I recall, the '80 was the NON-MD and the '81 was MD. We had all Fleetwood Formal Limos back then as for Cadillacs and our 81's had the MD. And it IS very easy to disable.
ive heard alot about the buick 4.1 v6 , and ive heard it was available as a turbo in some buicks , ill do some research on it after a bit , why this never took off i dont know i imagine a 4.1 turbo would give more torque than the 3.8 turbo in later turbo buicks (outside gnx)
EDIT !!!!
Yes , there was a 4.1 turbo v6 , couldnt remeber where i heard of it , it was int he buick rivera indy 500 pace car , apperently it was the only 4.1 turbo ever made and since Tom Sneeva probably got it after winning the 500 (the winner ususly gets the pace car or a replica ) , the riveras probably in a museum somewhere or if sneeva didnt get it its probably in the back of a GM wharehouse sitting next to the 85 fireo pace car and a couple of beretta convertables from the 1990 500
EDIT !!!!
Yes , there was a 4.1 turbo v6 , couldnt remeber where i heard of it , it was int he buick rivera indy 500 pace car , apperently it was the only 4.1 turbo ever made and since Tom Sneeva probably got it after winning the 500 (the winner ususly gets the pace car or a replica ) , the riveras probably in a museum somewhere or if sneeva didnt get it its probably in the back of a GM wharehouse sitting next to the 85 fireo pace car and a couple of beretta convertables from the 1990 500
OK, Here is the real scoop on the V-864. The non modulated version of this engine WAS installed in the 1980 model. Apparently all of the electronics were not worked out yet. In 81, they went full force with this thing. It had digital fuel injection, electronic on-board diagnostics AND an analog back-up computer if anything went wrong.
I found the system to be very reliable and drove my 81 Fleetwood 330,000 miles with NO trouble. As a matter of fact, the second owner of this car since I sold it is STILL driving it. The only thing he has replaced on the motor is the distributor drive gear. 420,000 miles!!!
As for disabling the system, this is very easy. The key is knowing how the thing works to begin with. The computer measures load/torque requirements and when conditions are right, begins to shut off cylinders. This is accomplished by rotating a turret shaped contraption above the rocker arms allowing the rocker to raise up from the head. This action leaves the valve closed on that cylinder. With the valve closed, the same air/fuel mixture is continuously re compressed, keeping the cylinder temperature up and of course, not taking in any more fuel.
The key is that NONE of this happens until the car is at cruising speeds. This was determined by a signal from the transmission that it was in high gear. To disable the system, reach under the car and from the driver's side and snatch the 2 wire connector from the side of the transmission... you now have a full time V8. No codes, no lights, no problem.
Now what I did that I thought was a bit more elegant was to intercept this wire with a switch at the dashboard. It is simply a ground signal to the computer so no fancy voltage crap is required... just splice and go. With the switch in place you can run V8 as much as you want and then when you get stuck in the middle of nowhere looking for a gas station you can flip it on and return to the "32 mpg mode"
As for the complaints from the general public... hell it was new and everyone complains about that. At the time, American cars with 4 cylinders engines just were not good PR, especially in a Caddy. The other problems again had to do with the operation of the system. When you got up to moderate speeds the car would shift from 8 down to 6 and finally to 4 cylinders. The 6 cylinder mode was unbalanced feeling even though it was only in this mode for short periods of time. I think they would have been bettter off to have it drop from 8 to 4 like they do now. (YES, this is how today's Northstar engine handles driving without coolant, exept both valves are OPEN instead of closed) The other thing that made driving this a bit uncomfortable was the fact that when you coast to a stop, there is always that point when the governor in the transmission shifts down from 3rd to 2nd gear. In most automatics, you never feel this happen. At this point the engine was instantly returned from 4 cylinder operation to 8, creating a slight surge even at zero throttle. If you are not comfortable with the car and have a really light braking foot (typical 70yr old demographic) this could be scary.
Remember that the 368 is just a smaller bore version of the bulletproof 425 engine used from 77 up to 80. Buy the 81, complain about the V864 to get the price down, take it home, snatch a wire, and drive the hell out of that car. It will do good for you. If you really want something good, hold out for a Fleetwood Coupe. These things are getting REALLY rare.
I found the system to be very reliable and drove my 81 Fleetwood 330,000 miles with NO trouble. As a matter of fact, the second owner of this car since I sold it is STILL driving it. The only thing he has replaced on the motor is the distributor drive gear. 420,000 miles!!!
As for disabling the system, this is very easy. The key is knowing how the thing works to begin with. The computer measures load/torque requirements and when conditions are right, begins to shut off cylinders. This is accomplished by rotating a turret shaped contraption above the rocker arms allowing the rocker to raise up from the head. This action leaves the valve closed on that cylinder. With the valve closed, the same air/fuel mixture is continuously re compressed, keeping the cylinder temperature up and of course, not taking in any more fuel.
The key is that NONE of this happens until the car is at cruising speeds. This was determined by a signal from the transmission that it was in high gear. To disable the system, reach under the car and from the driver's side and snatch the 2 wire connector from the side of the transmission... you now have a full time V8. No codes, no lights, no problem.
Now what I did that I thought was a bit more elegant was to intercept this wire with a switch at the dashboard. It is simply a ground signal to the computer so no fancy voltage crap is required... just splice and go. With the switch in place you can run V8 as much as you want and then when you get stuck in the middle of nowhere looking for a gas station you can flip it on and return to the "32 mpg mode"
As for the complaints from the general public... hell it was new and everyone complains about that. At the time, American cars with 4 cylinders engines just were not good PR, especially in a Caddy. The other problems again had to do with the operation of the system. When you got up to moderate speeds the car would shift from 8 down to 6 and finally to 4 cylinders. The 6 cylinder mode was unbalanced feeling even though it was only in this mode for short periods of time. I think they would have been bettter off to have it drop from 8 to 4 like they do now. (YES, this is how today's Northstar engine handles driving without coolant, exept both valves are OPEN instead of closed) The other thing that made driving this a bit uncomfortable was the fact that when you coast to a stop, there is always that point when the governor in the transmission shifts down from 3rd to 2nd gear. In most automatics, you never feel this happen. At this point the engine was instantly returned from 4 cylinder operation to 8, creating a slight surge even at zero throttle. If you are not comfortable with the car and have a really light braking foot (typical 70yr old demographic) this could be scary.
Remember that the 368 is just a smaller bore version of the bulletproof 425 engine used from 77 up to 80. Buy the 81, complain about the V864 to get the price down, take it home, snatch a wire, and drive the hell out of that car. It will do good for you. If you really want something good, hold out for a Fleetwood Coupe. These things are getting REALLY rare.
GOOD POST !!!!
i never knew much about the 864 , or its operation , just the grumbles over quaility
as for nowaday uses it found a home in a upcoming 5.3 litre chevy truck engine , i think gm is getting ready to stick these in silverados
i never knew much about the 864 , or its operation , just the grumbles over quaility
as for nowaday uses it found a home in a upcoming 5.3 litre chevy truck engine , i think gm is getting ready to stick these in silverados
Stop it Kevin, you're makin' me blush...
Another thing about the 81's that I forgot about that is really great.
The on-board diagnostics on these cars was actually VERY useful. Unllike the current Fleetwood systems which give information only, the system on the 81 would allow you to scan multiple systems and see values for things like temps, injector pulse widths, timing, etc. It also had ways of testing every underhood switch, selenoid, sensor, etc. from inside the car. It made working on the car a real dream.
Of course to make use of these things, you will have to purchase a REAL GM service manual for it, but trust me, it is worth every penny.
Another thing about the 81's that I forgot about that is really great.
The on-board diagnostics on these cars was actually VERY useful. Unllike the current Fleetwood systems which give information only, the system on the 81 would allow you to scan multiple systems and see values for things like temps, injector pulse widths, timing, etc. It also had ways of testing every underhood switch, selenoid, sensor, etc. from inside the car. It made working on the car a real dream.
Of course to make use of these things, you will have to purchase a REAL GM service manual for it, but trust me, it is worth every penny.
Yep, "Output Cycling" is a rather useful thing when you are trying to diagnose certain issues. The DFI system was the first of many OBD systems on Cadillacs. Unfortunately, only the RWD Fleetwoods strayed away from that type of system, all the FWD cars remained with that degree (and greater) of OBD. Viewing operating "parameters" is just the tip of the diagnostic iceburg which would become available to the customer (and would-be mechanic) on later FWD Cadillacs.
A while ago, I posted some info about these systems and I will reiterate that you CAN gain a rather in-depth guide to their inner workings through a small "Quick Reference Guide" available through Helm. It cost $7 for each year, and covers every model available in that year.
A while ago, I posted some info about these systems and I will reiterate that you CAN gain a rather in-depth guide to their inner workings through a small "Quick Reference Guide" available through Helm. It cost $7 for each year, and covers every model available in that year.
Kevin,
Is this available for the Fleetwood? The only "advanced" parameters and readings I have been able to find is the 05 and up codes, most of those dealing with AC readings.
I do use 14 occasionally as yet another speedometer check
Is this available for the Fleetwood? The only "advanced" parameters and readings I have been able to find is the 05 and up codes, most of those dealing with AC readings.
I do use 14 occasionally as yet another speedometer check
according to what I just read, the V8-6-4 feature seems real god and cool...... V8 power when ya need at, but cruise on the highway and get 32mpg....... why was there soo many problems with it?
the 368 seems to be underpowered though, 160hp?
seperate question, between the 425 and 500, which is better?
say if you got a '77 CDV and you wanted to make a big sleeper, keep the 425 and build it up, or swap in a 500 and build it up?
the 368 seems to be underpowered though, 160hp?
seperate question, between the 425 and 500, which is better?
say if you got a '77 CDV and you wanted to make a big sleeper, keep the 425 and build it up, or swap in a 500 and build it up?
1995 ETC, 75 Deville, Cad500 powered 73 Apollo, 94 Mark VIII
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Some people have had no problems with the 8/6/4, I dunno why it acts up some times.
That hp measurement is probably nett, so it will seem lower than what they used to use (gross).
I'd say go for the 500. If you're looking at nitrous, the 425 crankshaft might not take it. Plus Edelbrock makes an aluminum intake for the 500/472, though you can't use the stock AC compressor with it. And the 500 is bigger, therefore it's inherantly going to be more powerful.
That hp measurement is probably nett, so it will seem lower than what they used to use (gross).
I'd say go for the 500. If you're looking at nitrous, the 425 crankshaft might not take it. Plus Edelbrock makes an aluminum intake for the 500/472, though you can't use the stock AC compressor with it. And the 500 is bigger, therefore it's inherantly going to be more powerful.
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