[pkincy]

Edit: Solved.....it is the age old 1405 front pad (or 649 in Hawk numbers).

I want to put on a set of ceramic low dust pads on the new BW and am not certain that the 1405 pad from Powerstop is the same pad for the CT4-V BW as the ATS-V. In fact Amazon and Powerstop websites both list nothing for the new small BW. In fact Powerstop's website says they only make pads for the new Escalade. Seem suspicious.

 

[pkincy]

Apparently the new CT4-V BW pads/Brembo calipers are unique to our car. The ATS-V shares pads and calipers (Brembo) with the Camaro SS, the C7 Corvette GS and Z06, the old generation CTS-V and the old generation Camaro ZL1. Making your life easy. I used Carbotech 1521s on my C7 Z06 and Powerstop Z26s on the ATS-V. This CT4-V BW pads show as a unique vehicle fitment for them from the GM Parts website. And given the production numbers of this car I expect we won't see any low dust or track pads available for some time if ever. I searched this info by going on GM parts sites and getting the GM part number for the front calipers on our car and on the ATS-V. Then switched to the Vehicle Fitment section by reverse searching the GM Part number. The only vehicle listed for our pad part number is the 22 CT4-V BW. It doesn't even include the 21 if that was a thing last year.

Hear are the front pad GM part numbers. ATS-V and all the corresponding CTS-Vs, ZL1s from early generations and Camaro SSs and C7 Corvette GS and Z06: 25940447

GM Part Number for the CT4-V BW: 85115921

 

[AAIIIC]

Do you have pictures of the pad shapes to compare them?

 

[jao1057]

Good info, and thanks for the legwork. For a unique part on a rare car, especially with supply chain the way it is... Buy a set before you really need them.

 

[pkincy]

Mike Puskar, the President of Carbotech, has offered to get a set of backing plates laser cut and load them with the 1521 (low dust ceramic pad material) for me if I will pull the pads and trace them for him and measure the pad and backing plate thickness. I presume that would also result in Carbotech marketing replacement pads to include their race pad material for us in the near future. I also reached out to PowerStop. They were not as forthcoming. They anticipate having pads for us sometime next year. In the recent past I have put the Carbotech 1521s on my C7Z06 and put the Z26 Powerstops on my 2018 ATS-V that is now traded in. In fact I put on a new set of the Z26s just 3 days before I traded in the 2018 for the 2022 ten days ago. My experience is that the 1521s are better pad material as they don't color the rotors like the Z26s do but of course they are more costly than the Z26s. I don't think I will get to that task before I take the car in for Xpel and Ceramic Coating next week, so that solution may be some weeks away. So far in just 280 miles of ownership I have been reintroduced to the dusting problems the OEM pads give us and that mostly go away once you change to a ceramic pad and totally go away if you also ceramic coat the wheels including the inner barrels.

 

[pkincy]

I pulled the front pads and traced them and will get the tracings off to Carbotech so we will have a source for different pad compounds.

 

[AAIIIC]

Looks an awful lot like a 1405 pad, other than the sensor notch.

 

[tta1456]

Looks an awful lot like a 1405 pad, other than the sensor notch.

They do look like a 1405 with a sensor notch.

Interesting it has both a sensor notch and a squealer tab. Do the CT4-BW calipers have pad wear sensors, or just the squealer tabs?

I wonder if the addition of the sensor notch is because they're using the same calipers on the CT5-BW with the optional carbon ceramic brakes. AFAIK carbon ceramic brake pads don't have the squealer tabs, only the wear sensors. Maybe they did this change to streamline the parts bin for the CT4-BW and CT5-BW so they would not have to stock 2 different versions of the calipers.

 

[pkincy]

Notice that they do have the scraper tab. The Carbotech CEO responded to my email with these pictures and should receive the actual tracings I did by mail this week. Interestingly the CT5 BW has the same general shape as these (w that cutout) but as the caliper is a fair bit larger my guess is that their pads are larger also.

 

[pkincy]

Mike Pulsar from Carbotech responded and said the ATS-V, SS Camaro, C7Z06 pads would fit. His part number 1405. PowerStop part number 1405. Hawk part number 649. So the same pads you may have in your garage from your ATS-V. He wasn't absolutely sure but said he would confirm next week when he visits their factory and physically compares the pad to my tracing. But I did have a set of 1405s in my garage so tried them today and they fit perfectly. Now they don't have the cutout for the pad wear sensor. Interestingly enough before I took the time to change the pads I looked for the pad wear indicator on the DIC. And I couldn't find it. It should be on the right side of the speedometer (right zone of the DIC) and scroll sideways to Maintenance. Under Maintenance scroll down. You will find Oil Life % and then Air Filter Life % And Brake Pad Life %. However my car doesn't have the latter for some reason although the Blackwing should have it. I just am guessing but my guess is that the chip shortage kept that from being activated. When I changed the pads, the sensor cutout on the passenger side was empty but there was a sensor in my driver side pad. I just zip tied that to the brake hose after I removed it. So anyone wanting low dust pads can add anybodies ceramic pads. PowerStop Z26 and Carbotech 1521s are the favorites of the Corvette Z06 crowd. I used the 1521s on the Z and the PS Z26 on my 2018 ATS-V. The 1521s are $534 for the front axle and the PowerStops are $73 for the front axle. I suppose you can understand the PS preference even in the Corvette Z06 crowd. The only complaint I have ever heard from the users of PowerStops is that they do turn the rotors a slight bronze color. That made a difference to me particularly on the Corvette as I had $12,000 worth of forged monoblock wheels on that car that showed nearly all of the rotor. We don't see that much of the rotor on the Cadillac.

 

[pkincy]

I can now confirm that the same rear pads as we had on the ATS-V, the C7Z06 and the last gen Camaro SS will also work on the 4 BW. They are the 1718s in Carbotech and Powerstop numbering and 727 in Hawk pad numbering. So the same pads as you would order for an ATS-V. The OEM pads also have a sensor on one side on the inner pad that you won't have a place for with any of these aftermarket pads. Simply pull the sensor and zip tie it up along the brake line out of the way. I am using a set of Carbotech 1521s that I had in garage stock for my Corvette that I have since sold. I also cleaned and ceramic coated the wheels while changing the pads with Gtechniq C5 Wheel Armor which is formulated for high temperatures. The pads are slightly smaller than the backing plates for the OEM pads, but the ears are exactly the same which holds the pads in the caliper. The pad material is also a bit different shape but the same surface area on the rotor. I lightly bedded the new pads and am good to go. I have 36,000 miles on the ATS-V and 22,000 miles on my C7Z with these pads and their stopping is 99% of oem with less than 10% of the dusting, which I consider a huge win. I suppose if I was going to track the car I would have kept the OEM pads but I have retired from that game.

 

[mattnukem]

So just to summarize for the tl;dr crowd; pads made for the ATS-V will fit both front and rear, with the exception of the pad wear sensor, which will have to be secured out of the way.

Front pads: Carbotech/PowerStop PN 1405, Hawk PN 649
Rear pads: Cabotech/PowerStop PN 1718, Hawk PN 727

That all correct?

 

[C0wgill1]

How have the factory pads been regarding noise? My previous V's have all been squeaky after awhile.

 

[pkincy]

I had absolutely no problem with noise with the OEM pads. Just enough brake dust to color the wheels dark after 30 or 40 miles of driving. But that was the same problem I had with my C7Z06 and my ATS-V. On all of them I immediately switched to carbon ceramic pads from Carbotech or Powerstop.

 

[mattnukem]

How have the factory pads been regarding noise? My previous V's have all been squeaky after awhile.

I've heard a squeak from mine once on an unusually cool morning, but that's been it so far. Granted I only have 2600 miles on the car.

So far the dusting on mine hasn't been too bad, but I also don't drive a ton of miles every day. I'll probably be able to get away with washes every couple weeks, but I definitely won't be going back to the OEM pads once it's time for new ones.

 

[tta1456]

Another good reason to switch to aftermarket pads besides the dusting is the stock pads are a bit abrasive at the lower temps seen during street use which contributes to fairly rapid rotor wear. After 22.5k miles on my ATS-V there was still probably 70% brake pad thickness left but the rotors had a noticeable lip on them. I wouldn't doubt the rotors would be at minimum thickness and need replacement after the second set of brake pads (stock pads are Ferodo HP1000-1 compound, I believe.) I bedded in the brakes properly and was pretty hard on the brakes on winding backroads on the weekends, but they never once developed thickness variation or vibration.

Given the high cost of rotors on these cars, I'd prefer a faster wearing, less abrasive pad for street use to avoid having to replace rotors as often, even though you'll probably give up performance under repeated use at the higher end of the temperature range compared to the stock Brembo/Ferodo pads. My daily beater has about 125k miles on a set of DBA rotors using 3 sets of Hawk HPS 5.0 pads, and the thickess wear and lip on those DBA rotors is about equivalent to or maybe a little less than the rotor wear on my ATS-V after only 22.5k miles with the stock Brembo/Ferodo pads. The HPS 5.0 pads are moderately dusting (much, much lighter dusting than the stock Brembo/Ferodo pads though) and they work well for street use, however they do wear very rapidly under heavy use at higher temps-- but they're very easy on rotors. I would never do a track day on the HPS 5.0s though as their max service temp is too low and you'll probably end up in a gravel trap or wall, whereas the stock pads actually do pretty good for light to moderate track day use... but for strictly track use there are much better pads than the stock pads.

Ceramic pads are probably the best out there for low dusting and being easy on rotors and work OK for most street use, but they're not for me... at least the ceramic pads I've tried. Last set of ceramic "low dust" pads I tried I overtemped part way down one of my favorite winding backroads-- luckily they gave ample warning they were going away so I slowed down and let them cool before having a code brown moment.

I haven't tried the Carbotech 1521s, I might have to give them a try.

 

[TACoupe]

Check out Porterfield pads. A number of members are very happy with them. Do a search here for what they have to say.

2018/CADILLAC/ATS-V/Porterfield Brakes - Porterfield Brakes

2018/CADILLAC/ATS-V/Porterfield Brakes - Porterfield Brakes

porterfield-brakes.com

Roy

CT6-V front & rear brake pads available at...

Porterfield, the pad manufacturer said they would outperform the OEM pad made by Ferodo for Brembo and I think they do based on seat of the pants feel. As far as dust and noise, not even close, Porterfield wins hands down. I have ordered a new set of front and rear calipers from Porterfield and...

www.cadillacforums.com

Roy

A little more info about pads from Cobra automotive:

We believe the Carbon Kevlar R4 compound to be one of the best all around compounds for “Full Race” competition use. This compound “beds-in” quickly so you can concentrate on driving at speed almost immediately. Also available in a R4S compound, great for auto-crossing, driver’s schools, solo events, and rallies. We offer a broad selection of compounds based on years of testing & racing at various tracks. Friction coefficients from highest to lowest would be ST47, DTC70, PFC.01, ST43 and R4. Approximate temperature ranges from highest to lowest are: ST47 and DTC70 at 400F to 1600F, PFC.01 and ST43 at 300F to 1400F and R4 at 200F to 1000F. However all peak their performances in the 700F to 900F range. As far as rotor wear goes, from least to most, the order is R4, ST47, ST43, PFC.01 and DTC70. Please call to discuss which compound(s) would suit your driving style or typical race length.

Roy

 

[mattnukem]

Another good reason to switch to aftermarket pads besides the dusting is the stock pads are a bit abrasive at the lower temps seen during street use which contributes to fairly rapid rotor wear. After 22.5k miles on my ATS-V there was still probably 70% brake pad thickness left but the rotors had a noticeable lip on them. I wouldn't doubt the rotors would be at minimum thickness and need replacement after the second set of brake pads (stock pads are Ferodo HP1000-1 compound, I believe.) I bedded in the brakes properly and was pretty hard on the brakes on winding backroads on the weekends, but they never once developed thickness variation or vibration.

Given the high cost of rotors on these cars, I'd prefer a faster wearing, less abrasive pad for street use to avoid having to replace rotors as often, even though you'll probably give up performance under repeated use at the higher end of the temperature range compared to the stock Brembo/Ferodo pads. My daily beater has about 125k miles on a set of DBA rotors using 3 sets of Hawk HPS 5.0 pads, and the thickess wear and lip on those DBA rotors is about equivalent to or maybe a little less than the rotor wear on my ATS-V after only 22.5k miles with the stock Brembo/Ferodo pads. The HPS 5.0 pads are moderately dusting (much, much lighter dusting than the stock Brembo/Ferodo pads though) and they work well for street use, however they do wear very rapidly under heavy use at higher temps-- but they're very easy on rotors. I would never do a track day on the HPS 5.0s though as their max service temp is too low and you'll probably end up in a gravel trap or wall, whereas the stock pads actually do pretty good for light to moderate track day use... but for strictly track use there are much better pads than the stock pads.

Ceramic pads are probably the best out there for low dusting and being easy on rotors and work OK for most street use, but they're not for me... at least the ceramic pads I've tried. Last set of ceramic "low dust" pads I tried I overtemped part way down one of my favorite winding backroads-- luckily they gave ample warning they were going away so I slowed down and let them cool before having a code brown moment.

I haven't tried the Carbotech 1521s, I might have to give them a try.

Good points. I'm going to keep a close eye on pad/rotor wear, and I might add a set of one of the street use pads for swapping in when I put the PS4S's back on the car in the Spring (finding tires for the Winter has been fun so far, but that's a different topic).

 

[mattnukem]

I had a look, and interestingly I also appear to be missing the brake pad life display in the service section. My car was built in November 2021.

 

[pkincy]

I talked to a pretty knowledgeable CT5-V BW owner that often tracks his car, that said the sensor doesn't really read pad % as it states in the manual. Instead it is like the scraper. Once you wear down the pad and the sensor and expose the metal in the sensor it completes a simple circuit that will trigger a warning message in the DIC.