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Discussion Starter #1
I had a half hour to kill while waiting for a prescription to be filled, so I went down the street to Carmax to have the V appraised. I thought that if I got a newbie (or lazy) appraiser who didn't really know the current market, he might offer me the Blue Book value for the V and I would ring in the new year with an '06 Z06, or I might be the first one on my block with an STS-V. :cool2:

I have dealt with Carmax many times over the years and I have always been pleased with their numbers. Well, in this case, an embarrased appraiser came to me, apologizing in advance for what he considered to be an insulting offer. For my '05 V, with 12k miles, in perfect condition: $32,000. Ouch!:alchi:

Thank God I love the car. If I really wanted to get rid of it, that offer would send me into deep depression. Rather than rant about depreciation and employee pricing, I will say to anyone who is considering getting a V, there are some unbelievable bargains out there that will put in in a fantastic car for obscenely low prices that are too good to pass up.

Timing is everything.

CR
 

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05 maggied CTS-V, 2017 NSX Whoo Hoo!
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I know what you mean.

I was thinking about getting rid of my 03 Z06 (4k miles) and getting a 06 Z06, but I would have got a little over half of what I paid for Mr. Vette, and still had to come up with almost another $45k!:eek:

BLAH!

Don't buy one (almost any car) if you think it is a "good" investment.

However, because there aren't that many of them (V's) they may become collectors items.

(I should live so long)
 

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This is exactly why I leased my V. At the end of the term, it could be worth 5 bucks for all I care. I just throw the dealer the keys and walk away. American cars just can't hold thier value.

Eric
 

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'04 V sedan manual raven, '09 V sedan auto raven
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erp2863 said:
This is exactly why I leased my V. At the end of the term, it could be worth 5 bucks for all I care. I just throw the dealer the keys and walk away. American cars just can't hold thier value.

Eric
Almost every car loses a lot of value in their 2 years. Especially in this ceconomic climate of rebates and price cuts which all manufacturers are doing now. I recently went looking in the late summer and the Benz dealer was willing to take 5K off the sticker of the e55 right off the bat after I test drove it. For the money, it just wasn't worth all the extra cash I would have to put into it. However, the Quattroporte dealer took some money off but it was still over 100K, so i balked. Just look at them on Ebay. Bids never go over 75K. Talk about depreciation for a foreign, semi exotic car. This will probably be my next car once I tire of the V. Don't get me wrong, I truly like the V but life is short and you just gotta move on.
 

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Not just American cars loose their value. Try any new Mercedes, BMW, VW. The more expensive the more they loose.
I Just Sold a 2004 VW Phaeton MSRP $73900 for $38900. My 2002 E55 was $72,000 it went thru auction(off lease 36 mos.) only 32000 miles for $32000.
Way more drop than any American car. The more they cost the more you will loose.
David
 

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My BMW is the first car I EVER traded in and actually made money. I only put $500 down total when I bought it, so obviously there was quite a bit of TTL rolled into the note. But I traded it to Caddy and made $1500. Just amazing! I hear GM is going to "value pricing" that will have the retail price lower and closer to a real "sales" price. I think this is a smart move as it gives more integrity to the used car pricing. I mean, my V stickered at 52K and I paid 43K. That is silly. I paid full sticker for the BMW, but also received full value down the road. It's hard to give much value to something that was "whored out" as new.
Hell...who cares about price the V is more fun to drive. But I do hope GM gets its pricing corrected.
 

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chesrowncadillac said:
Not just American cars loose their value. Try any new Mercedes, BMW, VW. The more expensive the more they loose.
I Just Sold a 2004 VW Phaeton MSRP $73900 for $38900. My 2002 E55 was $72,000 it went thru auction(off lease 36 mos.) only 32000 miles for $32000.
Way more drop than any American car. The more they cost the more you will loose.
David
Ya but c'mon, can you imagine? A 2005 M3 with 12k only worth 32k? THAT'S INSANE!!! :alchi:

You will get close to 50k ALL DAY for that car! The bottom line, the BMW dealers (on the whole) know how to treat the enthusiast. They know how to coddle us. That, along with an awsum car keeps the prices up. That is why they would get 47k or so for that car and the BMW purchaser will pay it (with incentives through BMWusa.com)

Lowest price on Autotrader for 2004 Under 15k miles:
126 BMW M3's: Lowest price$42,000 12,900miles
40 CTS-V's: Lowest price $33,900 10,656miles

FREAKING SUX! Chesrown, we need more good dealers!
 

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chesrowncadillac said:
Not just American cars loose their value. Try any new Mercedes, BMW, VW. The more expensive the more they loose.
I Just Sold a 2004 VW Phaeton MSRP $73900 for $38900. My 2002 E55 was $72,000 it went thru auction(off lease 36 mos.) only 32000 miles for $32000.
Way more drop than any American car. The more they cost the more you will loose.
David
You're talking about 2 specific models that took a bomb in value. The Phaeton lost value because nobody pays that much for a VW. If the dealers can't sell them new, how is anyone going to sell them used? The old model E55 took a huge dive when the new S/C version came out. I bet the '02-'05 Z06's are going to give some value back now that the new one is out. New, more powerfull models never help the current owners.


Eric
 

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It's all about marketing the V. Right now, dealers don't carry it, they don't understand it, they won't support it. How the hell is it supposed to keep it's value if they don't "sell" it.

Most people, even enthusiast wanna be's don't know what it is, they are so shocked at how bad-ass it is. It needs it's name out there.

I got a response the other day. Isn't that the "under 5" car?
 

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I have to say, I agree with Arrogant on both of his last 2 posts. I've been looking at BMW M3's and the CTS-V the last several months and the last 2 have been watching prices in hopes of buying my next car. The BMW's just don't drop in value much at all. It's disheartening really, as I was hoping to snag a used 2005 M3 or else the CTS-V, but used 2005 M3's easily are going for 50k mininium all the way up into the mid to upper 50's. It's really kind of crappy, I was hoping to land one for 45k or so, but its near impossible, even on mostly stripped one. I did read somewhere however that BMW's are the #1 ranked brand for value retention, so I guess that makes sense. It seems like its almost pointless to buy an M3 though that is 12-18 months old, they barely drop in value. For 3-6k more, you can buy a brand new one and configure it how you want.

The CTS-V on the other hand, seems to drop in value like a rock. Cmon, a 2005 CTS-V in showroom condition with 12k miles, and its 32k? Thats 20k off the MSRP, and probably 13-15k off employee pricing. I know cars arent investments, there's also no reason to take a bath on one either, and 30%+ depreciation in 1 year sucks. You gotta be honest guys, for whatever reason, CTS-V's depreciate really fast, and everyone here knows it. I know I can buy a CTS-V with the FG2 on the employee discount plan and its a 52k car (with FG2) that would sell to me for 45,600 or so. A year later, 32k? Maybe little less, maybe little more? They do need to just correct their pricing structure. One of the reasons I'm interested in them is the fact that they can be had so cheaply, and its a LOT of car for your money. It just bites you on the tail-side pretty hard too when you go to sell it.

Arrogant's right, they aren't marketing the V much, I rarely if ever see commercials for it pushing the brand. It's very hard to see or even drive a 2006 CTS-V unless you want to order one first. How do they expect you to get to know the car without have at least ONE on the lot, much less in the city, so that you can take it out and drive it??? If they did a better job of marketing it and selling it, they may make some headway. I've gotten WAY more information from this board (btw, THANKS guys! :)) than any sales rep at any dealer I've spoken with. Most didnt even know what came on the car. The one lady I spoke with, AFTER I told her my grandfather worked for Cadillac for 35 years as an engineer so I was eligible for the employee discount, then tried to sell me the used 2005 CTS-V red one with 3k miles and swirl marks on it that I had to test drive since there were no 06 CTS-V's in all of Phoenix. She said "oh, I could let this one go for 48k, maybe 47k." A used 2005!! It was a complete joke, when I know people are paying 44-45k for them brand new!

Look at it this way. A 2005 M3 in mint condition with 10k miles on it for 32k... is insane and would create stampedes. A 2005 CTS-V with 10k miles on it for 32k.... *shrug*, is about right, and still may not gather sales. Unfortunately lots of the public doesnt know much about the car and don't value it like people that would post on these forums, and they sure as hell wont learn about it on the lot unless they get lucky and stumble across a rare one in stock.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
As often as I change cars (the V is my 6th car since 2003) I am used to taking a hit on depreciation, and I could live with the V's Blue Book value of approximately $40K, but the $32K offer was breath taking, especially for such a terrific car. I agree that part of the problem (aside from the employee pricing) is the lack advertising surrounding the car.

Cadillac has never created any "buzz" about the V. They have never done for the V series what Dodge/Chrysler has done for the Hemi series. Consequently, there is no demand for the Vs outside of the core enthusiast crowd that wants exactly what the V has to offer: American muscle, 4 doors, a manual trannie, and sharp handling. Caddie has never seemed to be totally committed to marketing the V series as a statement about their youth/performance movement

By the way, there is an American car that is holding its value. Carmax told me that they are paying top dollar for C5 Z06s (they had just bought a 2003 for mid $40ks) because of the excitement created by the C6 Z06 that is beyond many peoples' budgets.

CR
 

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crowan said:
By the way, there is an American car that is holding its value. Carmax told me that they are paying top dollar for C5 Z06s (they had just bought a 2003 for mid $40ks) because of the excitement created by the C6 Z06 that is beyond many peoples' budgets.
CR
I'm sure that my 2004 with 25,000 miles isn't worth any more than $30,000 or so. And it was the first car I every paid sticker for. So it's cost me about $1,000 a month in depreciation to own it. But I don't regret it at all.
I am really glad to hear about the Z06 prices. I just got my C6 Z06 and I'd like to think it will hold its value a lot better than the V. Regardless, I'm keeping them both.
 

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I think Caddy marketed it well. Some pretty cool commercials on the SuperBowl, etc. I sure don't see many BMW M commercials. The thing is, they don't need them. The M division has been around and they are famous. The V series has what? two years of history? I think it takes some time. As far as Chrysler and the Hemi, again it goes back to the '60s. A six speed 400hp caddy....people are still scratching their heads. Going back to my point about pricing, if you figure true sales price to used prices, the depreciation is not as bad. Unfortunately, many paid sticker at first.
 

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sefa01 said:
I'm sure that my 2004 with 25,000 miles isn't worth any more than $30,000 or so. And it was the first car I every paid sticker for. So it's cost me about $1,000 a month in depreciation to own it. But I don't regret it at all.
I am really glad to hear about the Z06 prices. I just got my C6 Z06 and I'd like to think it will hold its value a lot better than the V. Regardless, I'm keeping them both.
Depreciation is meaningless until you sell. I've had my mustang ragtop for 10 years. I couldn't care less what it is worth. I'll worry about V-values when I tire of it. I look at is as a $50K sunk cost and whatever it's worth when I sell it is a bonus.

The problem with leasing is that when the lease is up you have to walk away or buy it then for the residual. Everyone I know who leases feels the "need" to lease a new car when the old lease is up, and you are then forced to walk away during what should be the "cheapest" years of ownership (years 4-7). Everybody has their own theories on the cheapest way to "own" cars, but bottom line is enjoyment (at least for enthusiast cars). For me, leasing is like renting and owning is like.......owning.
 

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I buy cars and drive them until they don't move so I never sweat depreciation. Even with that, my last car fared real well. It was a 95 Impala SS. I drove it for 230,000 miles. I paid $22.5K for it new and sold it for $6K.

Balancing off the higher depreciation of most, but not all, American cars is usually a much cheaper maintenance cost. I worked at BMW in the early 90s and customers used to get shocked when we replaced rotors on every brake job!
 

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I do not agree with the quotes about BMW holding their value. Try trading in or selling a M3 on your own ! Before I bought the V earlier this year (2005 - around July), I tried to sell/trade in my 2002 M3 ($54k new) with 23k miles. Best offer anywhere was $33k. After I traded it in, the car made its way to the local BMW dealership and marked for sale at $46.5K. They are willing to sit on cars for months at a time (mine sat there for quite a few months) to extract the highest price.

If you really want a used M3, you need to purchase it from non-bmw dealer. Either a private sale or other dealer. They may quote a high asking price, but more than likely you can get it for much less.

-- Lee
 

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Brad330cic said:
I think Caddy marketed it well. Some pretty cool commercials on the SuperBowl, etc. I sure don't see many BMW M commercials. The thing is, they don't need them. The M division has been around and they are famous. The V series has what? two years of history? I think it takes some time. As far as Chrysler and the Hemi, again it goes back to the '60s. A six speed 400hp caddy....people are still scratching their heads. Going back to my point about pricing, if you figure true sales price to used prices, the depreciation is not as bad. Unfortunately, many paid sticker at first.
2 years is plenty of time to get into the market and make sure EVERYONE knows what the hell it is. I have talked to too many people who should have heard of the V but haven't. I know ALL you V owners share this frustration. Once the newness of, "I can't believe i'm in a Caddy" weares off, I want to pull up to a light and people to say, "oh sh*t, thats a V!!!"

If the V doesn't grab some sort of hold, it will not be around for long. . The V needs to get it's name out as a worthy competitor. I believe it starts with Caddy itself. GM needs to force dealers to support it, much as BMW does with the M. The V needs to become the pinnacle of caddy, as M is to BMW. Right now I think the V is just the "black sheep", the uncle your not sure if you can trust and you stay away from. Until this changes, the V will never succeed and Caddy will remain the go-to brand for old, blue-haired Geriatrics.

They need to fix the rear, get the V into more events, flood the media and force the V into the culture. It has the potential, will GM do what it has to? Yet to be seen, hasen't been seen yet!
 

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I can honestly say myself and anyone else I worked with had never heard of the V. Only reason I found it is when I began car shopping I happen to go to Cadillac's website to see what they offered compared to Lexus, Infiniti, and Mercedes and wondered what that V Series link was, so I clicked it. If it wasn't for that I still probably wouldn't know about the car.
I think Cadillac feels the car appeal will only be to die hard "motorheads" in the 38+ years and is keeping the advertisement limited to a market niche. The "bullet" commercial is cool and all, but what does it really say about the car ?
Maybe GM and AMD have the same marketing people and can't figure out how to get it right ?...
I'm in Plano, Texas and I know there are a few V's around, but wouldn't have known what to look for.
 
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