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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, I finally received my Mail Order Tune from Wait 4 Me Performance Today. When I got it I called them and talked with Hannah, I wanted to know if I needed to do a Crank Re-Learn ASAP, But she informed me that I didnt need to do one right away that I could wait a few days, Go have fun!!! She says.

Well after driving the car around a little while putting about 50 miles on it, I decided to " Have some Fun". Roll out in 1st, Short shift to 2nd once the car reached around 4500 RPM, What do I hear!? DETONATION and BAD!! So I back out instantly. What a bummer, I waited 25 days to get this Tune from W4M and now, I have to send it back.I am NOT down talking Hannah or Jesse by any means, That are great people and a good business that supports the CTS-V community, But this Sux!!

Jesse what can we do to help fix this situation, ASAP!!?? Thanks
 

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Sorry about the wait you had to do for the computer. It was a bad few weeks for us. And really threw things behind schedule.

As for the program. That exact calibration has been tested on over 900 Ctsvs including 7 of my own of those years.. That is alot of ctsvs.

So, that being said, the solution is going to be simple.

First off, how many miles do you have on your v.

The issue is either crank relearn needing done because your engine has more cam chain wear on it than usual so it needs to be performed to realign the crank / cam posistion varience.

Or you have a bad or dirty maf, or you are running bad gas that is not 90+, or have bad spark plugs, or bad/old front o2 sensors.

If you have a ton of miles on the car, Change the fuel filter as well.

When a customer calls with issues like that, it is always one of those things. My tune only adds 2 or so degrees of timing. If it does what you are saying, it is something on the car allowing that to happen.
 

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Hey Jesse, Thanks for the quick reply. I know you had a some rough times lately, I didnt mention anything as I didnt want to put your personal life out for the vast public knowledge. Again I'm sorry to hear about your lose. I tried to be patient with this process knowing what you were going through, I may have called maybe 3 or 4 times in the 25 day period, I feel you on being crazy busy and having personal issues on top of it. I run a Car Dealership and at times, I'm lost and I too take a little time to get things done, so no sweat there, I'm not upset at all.

Now on with the issue at hand. Like you said, I'm sure you have the basic tunes down pat on these cars, So Ive got faith we will get it handled quick.

1. I bought the car Bone Stock with 45k Miles on it 6 Months ago, it just turned 50k this week, So I hope there isnt to much chain slack.

2. I will check and clean the MAF tomorrow and check that off the list.

3. I actually just changed the Fuel Filter 2 weeks ago, it only has about 100 miles on it.

4. I run nothing but 93 Octane in the car at ALL times, But Florida does have 10% Ethanol in the Fuel, Dont know if that effects it.

5.FWIW its worth, The car ran fine on the stock tune with NO indication of any Detonation at all, No check engine light and Got decent gas mileage (17 MPG Combined). The car is actually a strong runner with Just the K&N Intake on Street tires I managed to run 12.90's at 110-111, So I wouldnt think the plugs are fouled or have a Bad 02 sensor.

Just to give you the complete scenario, When I made this pull it was 10pm and was about 75 Degrees out, the car had been cooling off for 2-3 hours, and was on a flat surface. So it wasnt like it was Really Hot in Bumper to Bumper Traffic or Going up hill. For engine mods I only have a Cold Air Intake and Muffler delete.

If I drive the car normal while we are trying to trouble shoot will it be ok?

Like I said, In the morning I will clean the MAF and then give you a call to see if we can remedy the issue. Thanks for your Help!
 

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Plugs need changed. Put in a set of NGK tr55 plugs gapped at .040 That will help as well.

We have blended fuel as well here. I travel to florida often, so im aware of fuel quality there.

The point im saying is, it is from a lean condition more than likely due to dirty maf or bad air filter.

Im only adding 2deg of timing from stock. There is a 1 deg window still before you get .001 deg of knock. Not 1, but .001 degree of knock. So you should not be getting kr unless something is wrong on the car. A stock computer would be hiding it because it had a long time to learn. It also probably just set itself to the low octain tables on your stock computer and mine didnt have time to do that yet. It will learn. That is why there are multiple tables.

Let me know how it goes.

You always get free updates for life on them so i can pull the 2 deg back out but that defeats the hp gains.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hey Jesse, Tried everything you recommended, Nothing worked :(

1. Changed the oil this morning, It was due.

2. Put Brand New NGK-TR55's in Gapped at .040

3. Cleaned the MAF

None of this made the slightest difference it still does the same thing. I made a full pulls on my way home and 75% of the time it Detonates, it starts around 3500-4500 RPM's.

What do you suggest I do next? Thanks for your help!
 

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Send the computer back, ill put it into different hardware. Maybe the computer is having a sync problem.

When you put your stock one back in, do the same floored test without it learning, it is odd that it is happening.

Ill ship out the replacement the same day it gets here.

sorry for the troubles.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Jesse I Greatly appreciate it, I will send the computer over night tomorrow.

P.S. I'm also getting a Foul smell now after a Pull, Im assuming its the CAT getting hot from the Lean conditions.

Great Customer Service!!
 

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Hey sorry for the extra questions. But do you think I should Dis-Connect the Battery overnight to see if it changes anything? Just got me thinking when you said it may be a Bad Sync. I did notice something weird when I put your computer in, The first couple of drives my Auto-Up and Down on my windows didnt work, Nor did my memory seats. Then out of the Blue they came back. I know its prolly nothing but just figured id throw it out there, LoL!
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Hey Jesse, So far no detonation, I think we are good in that dept. But Unfortunately the car does act like it has alot of knock retard, its obvious, it stops pulling completely in some spots throughout the RPM Range, It has a weird and spoty Power Band, In some spots it pulls nice then in others you can feel the car lug down. It sometimes feels like it has Vtec, LoL!!

Here is a Time Line of the RPM vs Pull vs Bog. To test I'm always in second gear around 3500 RPM.

Rolling in 2nd at 3500 RPM, I go WOT from approx 3500 to 4500 RPM it pulls nicely.

From approx 4500 to 5500 RPM, It feels like its pulling timing, It falls on its face. Its keeps revv-ing (SLOWER) but barely pulls.

After that it studders a little bit then, It hits "VTEC" and Pulls hard again til 6400 RPM when I shut it down.

I'm VERY SORRY to be such a Pain in your a$$. I think I need to take it to a Dyno asap to get some Real World Numbers you can look at and compute. I will get that done and send you the Dyno Results.

What all did you change on this New tune? A friend of mine has HP Tuners and I bought a Credit on his account so we can try some logging to see what is going on.

Any ideas or Suggestions? Otherwise I'll keep you posted when I get some solid results that are in Black and White and not what Im "Feeling". Thanks again for your help
 

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If you put it on the dyno, i can send you files via email to fix what ever is wrong. Did you do the crank relearn yet? Hptuner software will do that for you. I still think it is just a cam sync issue. as hundreds of people are running that same program just fine. Including a few of my own personal ones.
 

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Yeah I'm going today to do the Crank Re-learn. I need to setup an appointment to do the Dyno as well. I'll keep you posted. Thanks
 

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Alright I got the Crank Re-Learn done. The car does feel better, more smooth, But it didnt totally fix my Vtec Powa LoL!! Hopefully tomorrow I can get it on a Dyno and Check what the A/F is at, See if its pulling any timing, Making good power,etc... I was also thinking that IF the car does act up on the Dyno then I will swap out the Original PCM to see if the issues are underlying and not in the tune, Plus I can compare and see how much Power your tune added. I'll keep you posted. Thanks
 

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Sounds good. Im guessing timing chain slop pretty bad. High mileage? you changed your plugs right?
 

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tuesday. im still in london right now.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Re: W4M Tune Issues,PLEASE HELP! Now with Dyno Results!

Hey Jesse, Me again. The car only has 50k Miles on it, So I wouldnt think it would be excessive chain slop. Yes I changed the Plugs and The Fuel Filter, Air Filter, Cleaned MAF, Cleaned TB, Crank Re-learn, Everything you recommended. I did have the car Dyno'd today, Below is the Graph.


So Ive got Good News and Bad News. The Good news is, I now know what is wrong with the car. The Bad News is, its Your Tune. I hate for things to have to go this way but Business is Business. Its been 39 days and Ive spent an ADDITIONAL $300 on things that you thought were wrong with the car, I took your word and replaced Everything , I now have Almost $500 invested into this PCM and still dont have a Tune that actually gained Horsepower, Rather it LOST almost 20 RWHP and LOST Over 25 RWTQ. I dont want this to turn into a war and Im not mad with you. I still dont question your ability to tune these cars, Obviously your good at what you do, Or else you wouldnt still be in Business and Probably have Tons of Happy customers. But at this point I would just assume to go seperate ways, I'll send the PCM back and You refund the Original cost of the PCM ($163 or something like that) . Let me know what you want to do,Thanks

The Wait 4 Me Tune is Marked as Jesse Tune @ 311.67 HP and 304.33 TQ

The Stock tune is Marked Stock Tune @ 330.61 HP and 345.58 TQ (Which is a Spike, Its Really around 330 TQ)

 

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I just need to see a log of your car running, and i will pinpoint what your issue is. Your car is running ALOT leaner than it should be with the stock tune in it. Also if you look, you are even getting massive kr with our stock tune. Even in the stock tune you had a MASSIVE cyl event near the begining of your run. My computer on those years are smart and will change themselves to be safe. You drove on mine for 100 or so miles so it learned what it had to do to hit the 12 air fuel that is commanded. Stock tune is shooting for a 12af and is usually alot richer than that.

When you put your stock computer in and did a run without it learning, it didnt give time for it to learn anything.

As you can see where your STOCK file failed near the 50 mph mark on the run, you can see that it went right to where my computer had already put itself to be safe. If it pulls hp it is for a reason. To save your engine. I give those older ecms permission to basically do and fix what it wants to. As it always knows what is best. " as long as your sensors are in good working order".

A log with the stock computer, or with my computer will help pinpoint the issue. I have seen all sorts of things causing stuff like this. Even water under the intake pooled up in the knock sensor area from people power washing thier engines..

Either way, i can figure it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hey Jesse, Me again. I just sent You and Hannah an Email and a PM of the Final verdict in this Saga. Please get back to me ASAP. Thank you and Have a Good 4th of July Holiday!! :yup:
 
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