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:banghead:

I bought a 2000 DHS in June ( about 34,000 miles) and I cannot get a vibration that seems to be "deep down" out of it. I have four new tires, have aligned it, balanced and rotated the tires at least ten times, complained to Cadillac, been told Cadillac will not cover it under warranty because I used the best Michelins that are not certified by the dealer, and I am at wits end!

The vibration begins about 60 mph and gets progressively worse as the speed increases. What puzzles me is that it changes characteristics. Some days it is severe and other days it is tempered. I asked the dealer about the tie rods which on the DTS have a service bulletin. The dealer claims that has nothing to do with the DHS.

Does anyone have an idea what is causing this? Also does anyone have any references for REALLY good tire shops in the Northern Virginia area?
 

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Sevilles as well. Mine had it. There is a TSB for the Sevilles about it. Do a search for vibration on this site and youll find it
 

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About 99% of the time its in the tires. Either a crappy install or crappy balance. A crappy install can overstrech the sidewall and the car will never ride right. Plus the damage cannot be seen. The tire will look excellent. As for balancing...on new tires anything that requires more then 1 oz I make them try a different/new tire. In addition the balancers are suppose to be calibrated daily...

You need to find a Hunter GSP9700 tire machine. Search on Google for their website and then you can search for a local dealer via your zip code. The Hunter machine is a 'load force' balancer.


As for the Cadillac vibration TSB. Here it is..


Shake/Vibration in Steering Wheel, Floor, Seat at Highway Speeds on Smooth Roads (Diagnose/Balance Tires/Wheels) #00-03-10-007C
Table 1: Cadillac Seville and DeVille Tire Changes
Shake/Vibration in Steering Wheel, Floor, Seat at Highway Speeds on Smooth Roads (Diagnose/Balance Tires/Wheels)
1997-2002 Buick Park Avenue, Park Avenue Ultra

2000-2002 Buick LeSabre

1998-2002 Cadillac Seville (SLS, STS)

2000-2002 Cadillac DeVille (DTS only)

2001-2002 Oldsmobile Aurora

2000-2002 Pontiac Bonneville (17" Tires only)

This bulletin is being updated to revise the Parts Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 00-03-10-007B (Section 03 - Suspension).


Important
"IPC" dealers are not authorized to utilized this service bulletin.


In recent months, most of the tire fitments used on the DeVille and Seville models have changed from Goodyear to Michelin in production. For this reason, effective August 1, 2002, Goodyear screened tires will no longer be available for service on these models. Michelin screened tires will be available in some cases. Refer to Parts Information later in this bulletin.

Condition
Some customers may comment on shaking/vibration in the steering wheel, floor or seat while driving at highway speeds (typically between 60-72 mph (96-115 km/h)) on smooth roads.

Cause
These specific vehicles may be sensitive to various rotating mass assemblies, especially if they are considered to be out-of-balance.

Correction
Visually inspect the tires and the wheels. Inspect for evidence of the following conditions and correct as necessary.
Missing balance weights
Bent rim flange
Irregular tire wear
Incomplete bead seating
Tire irregularities
Mud/ice build-up in wheel
Stones in the tire tread
Set the tire pressure to 30 psi (205 kPa) COLD.
Road test the vehicle with the Electronic Vibration Analyzer (EVA) essential tool for a sufficient distance on a known, smooth road surface to duplicate the condition. Record the Hertz (Hz) reading as displayed by the EVA onto the tire data worksheet found at the end of this bulletin. This should be done after a tire break-in period of at least 10 miles (16 km) at 45 mph (72 km/h) or greater, in order to eliminate any possible tire flat-spotting.
If the road test indicates a shake/vibration still exists, check the imbalance of each tire/wheel assembly on a known, calibrated, off-car dynamic balancer. If any assembly calls for more than ¼ ounce on either rim flange, remove all balance weights and rebalance to as close to zero as possible.

Important
Some GM dealers may have a Hunter GSP9700 Road Force Balancer. This will simplify Step 5 by not requiring dial indicators. If a Hunter GSP9700 machine is available, it may also be used to measure the radial force of the tire/wheel assembly. A guideline here is 18 lbs or less.


While on the balancer, measure wheel runout. If radial or lateral runout exceeds .020 in (0.50 mm) for aluminum wheels (.030 in (0.76 mm) for steel wheels), replace the wheel.
After confirming wheel balance and wheel runout, if any changes were made, road test the vehicle again.
If the smooth road shake/vibration still exists:

Important
The completed worksheet must be attached to the hard copy of the repair order.


Record Radial Force Variation readings if you have access to Hunter GSP9700 Wheel Balance equipment. Use the worksheet found at the end of this bulletin to record the readings.
If one or more of the tires have RFV readings in excess of 18 lbs, the vehicle should qualify for screened tires.

Important
Dealers servicing the DeVille or Seville models referenced above and originally equipped with Goodyear tires will need to replace these tires with either Goodyear or Michelin tires obtained locally. Canadian Dealers require District Service Manger (DSM) authorization prior to changing tire brands. Any time the tire brand is changed, the tires removed from the vehicle must be scrapped by the DSM.


Complete the screened tire request form found at the end of this bulletin and fax it to the respective OEM tire manufacturer. Refer to the request form for additional instructions.
Screened tires will be shipped to the ordering dealership, at no charge, within three days from the date of order. Screened tires will be labeled as "Screened Tires" for prompt identification when received by dealerships.
Mount and balance the screened tires to the wheels using proper procedures.
Road test the vehicle to ensure the shake/vibration has been resolved.
The old tires MUST be returned to the OEM tire manufacturer. U.S. dealers, use the return shipping label(s) received with the screened tire(s). GM of Canada dealers, use the current established return procedure (refer to Home Office Letter (HOL) 2001-208-Tire Warranty Administration flow charts).

Important
Screened tires will only be provided for vehicles with less than 12 months in service or 12,000 miles (19,000 km), whichever comes first. For vehicles that exceed 12 months and/or 12,000 miles (19,000 km), please contact your respective Area Service Manager (DSM in Canada) for authorization. The supply of screened tires is limited. Please order them wisely.


Parts Information
Cadillac Seville and DeVille Tire Changes
TPC Number
Production Tire
Screened Tires

Previously
1160 MS
P235/55R17 98H Goodyear Eagle RSA
No longer available

Currently
1160 MS
P235/55R17 98H Michelin Energy MXV4+
Available





Previously
1149 MS
P235/60R16 99S Goodyear Integrity
No longer available

Currently
1109 MS
P225/60R16 97S Michelin Symmetry
Available





Previously
1160 MS
P235/55R17 98H Goodyear Eagle LS
No longer available

Currently
1160 MS
P235/55R17 98H Michelin Energy MXV4+
Available






Previously
1148 MS
P235/60R16 99H Goodyear Eagle LS
No longer available

Currently
--
None*
--





*In the fourth case above, where the Goodyear tire was dropped and not replaced with a Michelin tire, locally obtained Goodyear or Michelin tires should be used for service.


Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time

E0901
High Speed Tire Shake
0.8 hr

Add
Measure Tire/Wheel Asm., Runout and Re-balance
1.3 hrs

Add
Mount and Balance Screened Tires--All 4 Tires
1.3 hrs



Screened Tire Request Form (Bulletin 00-03-10-007B)

Fax Instructions:

Bridgestone/Firestone : 615-882-3477

Continental General : 888-847-3329

Goodyear : 800-638-5108

Michelin : 248-649-8197





Dealer Code__________________________




Date________________________________





Dealership Name______________________________________________ ________________





(Shipping) Street Address:__________________________________________ ____________





City/Prov________________________________ State__________ ZIP/Postal Code_________________





Contact Name_______________________________ Phone Number____________________



Fax Number_________________________________



Vehicle Information





VIN_______________________________________________ _________________________





Make____________________ Model______________________________ Year__________





Mileage__________________





Tire Information





Tire Brand/Name_______________________________ Tire Size______________________





TPC Number____________________ Sidewall (circle one) WW BW Sealant





Number of tires requested (circle one) 1 2 3 4



Bulletin #00-03-10-007C Tire Data Worksheet





Vehicle Information



VIN #_______________________________________________ Miileage_________________



Customer Name______________________________________________ ________________

Tire Information





Size________________________ Brand____________________________ TPC#_________

Verify Vibration Test Drive



A. Speed_____________________________________



B. Road Condition______________________________



C. Trans. In Neutral (check one) : Yes_______ No______



D. Torque Sensitive (check one): Yes_______ No_______



Electronic Vibration Analyzer (EVA)

Diagnostic Tool Readings: Measure from driver's side seat track



A. Speed__________________



B. Hertz (Hz)_______________



C. Gs_____________________





Check Balance

Rebalance if any tire/wheel assembly exceeds 1/4 ounce



Measure Wheel Runout



Radial Runout


Lateral Runout



LF Inboard________ Outboard__________


LF Inboard_________ Outboard_________



RF Inboard________ Outboard__________


RF Inboard_________ Outboard_________



LR Inboard________ Outboard__________


LR Inboard_________ Outboard_________



RR Inboard________ Outboard__________


RR Inboard_________ Outboard________



Radial Force Variation Readings

(If Hunter GSP9700 is used)



LF_________________lbs


LR______________lbs



RF_________________lbs


RR______________lbs
 

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That bulletin has been superceded twice. The new bulletin has added the replacement of the lower control arms with a new design that came out in late 03 when all else fails and the vibration is still present. The new arms have different bushings to dampen the vibration.
 

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has anyone had any luck fixing this vibration? I have a 2002 STS with the same problem, and have got the run around at the dealer---any advice on what avenue to take?

thanks for any help
 

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epeters said:
has anyone had any luck fixing this vibration? I have a 2002 STS with the same problem, and have got the run around at the dealer---any advice on what avenue to take?

thanks for any help
I have an '02 STS and have a slight vibration, too. I'm not surprised you got the run-around from the dealer since they either don't know what to do or know that there's nothing the CAN do. Have you gotten any suggestions here?
 

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there is also a recall for motor mounts, in i belive the deville, im not sure of the symptoms, because i have never personally replaced one on a car so i dont knwo what the complaint was, but i can find out. the rest of those seem like very pausible explainations especially the poor balancing or warped rim. and aty aroudn 6-MPh where it seems liek most of yoru are having the problem, i woudl say it is unbalanced wheels, or wheels not balanced correctly. that seems to be a common customer complaint.
 

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I have an '02 STS and have a slight vibration, too. I'm not surprised you got the run-around from the dealer since they either don't know what to do or know that there's nothing the CAN do. Have you gotten any suggestions here?




Have not heard anything that has helped---wish I have---
 

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there is also a recall for motor mounts, in i belive the deville, im not sure of the symptoms, because i have never personally replaced one on a car so i dont knwo what the complaint was, but i can find out. the rest of those seem like very pausible explainations especially the poor balancing or warped rim. and aty aroudn 6-MPh where it seems liek most of yoru are having the problem, i woudl say it is unbalanced wheels, or wheels not balanced correctly. that seems to be a common customer complaint.



no offense, I know you are trying to help, but I have had them rebalanced now about 5 different times at two different places----give me some further info to help besides that

have an '02 STS and have a slight vibration, too. I'm not surprised you got the run-around from the dealer since they either don't know what to do or know that there's nothing the CAN do. Have you gotten any suggestions here?
12-09-03 12:33 AM


no, unfortunately I have not heard anything that can help me either,,, I will keep posted
 

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Brett said:
Sevilles as well. Mine had it. There is a TSB for the Sevilles about it. Do a search for vibration on this site and youll find it
I think all the Cadillac owners that are having trouble with this vibration should get together and file a class action lawsuit and then maybe General Motors would recognize that they are selling lemons instead of Cadillacs.
 

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In June of 2003 we purchased a DTS , prior to this purchase we Road Tested x number of new STS's and found that every one had this Vibration . Anyway , about 400 miles later we encountered the same Vibration in our DTS . Since this time we had 3 attempts by the Dealer and Cadillac to correct this Vibration , New sreened Michelin Tires where installed , New Lower Control Arms where installed , Tires have been Balanced X number of times on a Hunter GSP9700 with no sucess . Had BBB Auto Hotline Arbitration Meeting and Buy Back was denied .At the moment we go throug Florida State Arbitration , dont know how this turns out . Cadillac is hiding behind its own EVA Spec's to cover up this Vibration sine in MHO it is a Design Defect which Cadillac will not correct.If we loose the Florida State Arbitration , we will Trade the DTS in on a BMW !
Would like some of you out there to give me some feed back which I can use at the Forida State Arbitation Hearing . Thank you so much .
 

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El Dobro said:
If you do an internet search on Cadillac vibration, you'll finds loads of owners with the prolem.
Thank you El Dobro , did find a few but most of the Posts I did find on some other Cadillac Forums . If the State Hearing turns out Negative for us , the DTS will end up being Traded in on a BMW , will keep the Board Up-Dated .
Thanks again .
 

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F.K Zimmer said:
In June of 2003 we purchased a DTS , prior to this purchase we Road Tested x number of new STS's and found that every one had this Vibration . Anyway , about 400 miles later we encountered the same Vibration in our DTS . Since this time we had 3 attempts by the Dealer and Cadillac to correct this Vibration , New sreened Michelin Tires where installed , New Lower Control Arms where installed , Tires have been Balanced X number of times on a Hunter GSP9700 with no sucess . Had BBB Auto Hotline Arbitration Meeting and Buy Back was denied .At the moment we go throug Florida State Arbitration , dont know how this turns out . Cadillac is hiding behind its own EVA Spec's to cover up this Vibration sine in MHO it is a Design Defect which Cadillac will not correct.If we loose the Florida State Arbitration , we will Trade the DTS in on a BMW !
Would like some of you out there to give me some feed back which I can use at the Forida State Arbitation Hearing . Thank you so much .
Well I don't know if this will help or not...............bought a 2000 DTS with 21k in jan, 2004. Have that same nagging vibration at highway speeds, especially when doing lane changes, and corrections within lane of travel. Steering wheel vibrates, visibly noticeable, fell in floor shifter handle, etc. Dealer took my 17" wheels and replaced with 16" off of a 2003 Deville, brand new Michelin Symmetry tires, alignment, balance, force bal, etc. Vibration is still there, dealer says car is OK. I don't think it's safe at speeds over 60.Contacted Cadillac "customer assistance" 4 times, repeatedly asked for Cadillac rep to contact me, no reply as of 3/20/04. I am completely disgusted with the ride of this car, and am regretting trading in my 94 Seville STS, I loved that car but 104k was getting scary.
Brought tsb # 00-03-10-007E to service managers' attention, he claims that is not applicable to my car ?????? Going to another Cadillac dealer WED 3/24 will post results then. P.S. Mateo at Cad. Cust. asst. @ 888-942-4368x48449 promised to call me Thur. 3/25 to follow up on my complaint..........Good Luck..........and if any one out there has further info updates, please advise.........thanks
 

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Well the Seville is now out of production so that just leaves the deville. cadillac is spending so much money on new products, i think they are just trying to limp along until the deville re-design. in the meantime they are probably losing some customers. i for one would have considered a DTS when my lease was up on my SLS, but being aware of the problem i never considered it.
 

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I have driven upwards of 8 devilles ranging from rental fleet base to DTS models. The ones that had under 5K miles were great. I recieve them for 3-6 months for business use and put an average of 8K on each one and every one develops that same vibration, not to mention torque steer that will almost pull the steering wheel out of my hands. Boy am I glad I don't own one! I wonder if you guys ever heard the story of Brian Bosworth. He worked at a Cadillac Plant and purposly damaged thier cars during assembly and I wonder if Cadillac has alot of discruntled employee's? That tire requirement is B.S!!!!!!! The dealer I used to frequent sold new cars with outrageous wheel tire combos and covered them why not a simple tire model change? Thats like the time a service advisor told me that an "electrical connection" had to be broken to have warranty work done. I took my car to a another Cadillac dealer 10 miles away and they happily cured my issue. Thier service tecniques are purley based on whether or not it is profitable for them. If your car was out of warranty, they would gladly fix the issue for 5 grand!!! :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:
 

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As mentoned before. 99% of the vibrations can be linked to a bad tire or tires.

The side to side shake in the steering wheel is called 'nibble.'

I have a '01 Deville. I too had the vibration. It would come and go...seemed tempeture related. Mine was narrow....67-71mph. I also had the lane change vibration. I think that that statement there points at the tires.

Another issue I found out....turns out I had a bad front lower engine mount. It basically looked ok. But removing the lower nut and jacking up the engine showed that the front lower engine mount stud was tearing away. They are a bitch to change....you have to remove the complete mount and bracket assembly. 3-4 hours to do. You do have to lower the engine cradle to replace the mount.

I should also add....I snugged up the steering rack preload to the lower side of the specs. The racks are pretty loose off the assembly line.

Also, the Devilles feel like they have some bias toward a higher then typical rear brake pressure. It appears that warpped rear rotors can cause some issues.

In addition...I moved a suspect front tire to the rear. 95% of my problem is now gone.

Logan
www.airbagcrash.com
www.logandiagnostic.com
 

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More info.

Check the front lower engine mount shown in the attached picture. Easy to check....remove the lower craddle/mount nut. Jack the engine up and inspect the mount. Mine the lower mount stud was tearing away from the mount. It was a hidden issue until the engine was jacked up.

The mount is fairly cheap. I think mine was $77 with tax.

The picture is from the GM electronic service manual. Its mis-leading. There is not way to disconnect the upper mount nut. The clearance is only about a 1/2 inch between the nut and the manifold. Its also a huge nut....like 1 1/8+.

To remove the mount...you must remove the complete mount and bracket. 2 bolts near the valve cover...and 2 bolts into the engine block. Then you have to drop the engine craddle some from the body....and wiggle the whole assembly out.

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3768672/1080864454961_mount.gif

Logan
www.airbagcrash.com
www.logandiagnostic.com
 

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Many thanks for the additional "troubleshooting" procedures. Cadillac cust. asst. finally actually called me back. I have an "open" account / complaint.The second dealer I went to advises another alignment and "forced balance". They are going to complete this work next Wed 3/31, and I'll go from there. This service manager unlike the dealer where I bought the car agrees that there is excessive shake in the front of my DTS, especially 65 to 75 mph. He is especially perplexed that the first dealer took off the 17'' wheels and replaced them with 16''. I stopped by the dealer where I bought the car and he still thinks there's not a shake............go figure.
 
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