[OldRoadDawg]

OK... I'll say it first. "That'll buff right out."

http://jalopnik.com/a-cadillac-cts-v-prototype-just-crashed-at-the-nurburgr-1699761947#kxsegs=o7mp4e3md,o9i68fk9g,pexi6me2k

 

[vfaninva]

Everything's just fine. All promo pics will be taken on the passenger side until further notice.

 

[Submariner409]

We never see the real results of vehicle testing. It's all sanitized out to prevent damage to the sales figures. I shudder to think of the numbers of squished test cars that have gone back to the recycling bins. Think of the lack of everyday damage pictures as "motor vehicle politics".

 

[syndr78]

I'll take that off your hands if you don't want it.

 

[Tedboss1]

With all that power AWD would help.

 

[nsaness]

With all that power AWD would help.

Again with the AWD:stirpot: Is that because AWD cars don't crash?
If you saw damage only on the rear bumber, I could buy that AWD would have helped. However when the damage goes from front to back, an AWD car would crash just the same.
The only thing that would have helped that car crash is a slower speed, more grip, or a better driver.

 

[Tedboss1]

AWD cars don't crash?

Did I say that?

 

[Xaqtly]

more grip

Yes... hence the suggestion for AWD.

 

[nsaness]

Yes... hence the suggestion for AWD.

Lol not more grip in accelerating from a dead stop...

----------

Did I say that?

I could be wrong, but I assumed your suggestion meant you thought awd would have helped prevent the crash shown. Otherwise it was an odd comment based upon the photo where the front and side of the car were damaged.
I think the accident shown was caused by to much speed, and awd would not have helped a thing. If the back of the car was the only part damaged (fishtailing) I would have understood your comment better.
I never meant to offend.

Dear Cadillac please keep my cars RWD.

 

[turbine50]

I was at the Nurburgring doing laps on the 21st and 22nd. I saw it and the ATS-V testing as well as the CT6 and an obviously hopped-up version of the new Vette (ZR-1?). They were nudging close to 200mph on the straight. I was on the steps at the Devils Diner near the ticket office/toll gate with my video cam. At that spot, they were just lifting off the gas to go through the fast chicane before the end of the lap. The sound of tire and wind noise was all you could hear. On other parts of the track, they were looking and sounding great.
When I get back to the states next week, I'll post the video.

 

[CTSVsport]

I take two positives out of this:
- they are driving HARD
- it's sunny, perhaps the weather will cooperate with a record run

 

[turbine50]

I take two positives out of this:
- they are driving HARD
- it's sunny, perhaps the weather will cooperate with a record run

It was unusually sunny all week. The were trying to test the week before but the weather was crap.

They were driving pretty hard at times. One of my vantage points was the downhill braking zone entering Ex-Muhle. The CTS-V was getting hairy a couple of times. At Brunchen, same thing. It was awesome. There were a bunch of cars testing- BMW, a couple of S-Class Mercs, C63 AMG coupe, a Veyron, Lamborghini, Jag, Skoda, etc. I can't remember much of what did what but the videos will tell.

 

[turbine50]

Here's some screenshots from my footage on the 21st. I did't get very good shots of the ATS-V.
I don't know much about Corvettes so anyone care to speculate?

CTS-V





ATS-V



CT6

 

[Xaqtly]

Lol not more grip in accelerating from a dead stop...

Have you ever tried sliding an AWD car around a corner then just pinning the gas pedal? Try it sometime. An AWD car, at least a performance AWD car like the STi, will simply go where you point it. Try that in a RWD car like the V, and you will just spin out and hit a tree. As I've said many times before, AWD is not just for straight line traction. Not only that, most good AWD systems in performance cars have the ability to add or remove power to each wheel individually in concert with pitch and yaw sensors, giving it superhuman grip levels in corners. There's a reason the GT-R can get around tracks the way it does, and it's not because it has tires made out of superglue.

Dear Cadillac please keep my cars RWD.

Dear Cadillac, give us the option of AWD, because some of us enjoy being able to actually use all that power, rather than turning it into tire smoke every time you touch the throttle below 60 MPH.

I don't know much about Corvettes so anyone care to speculate?

That just looks like a Z06 to me. Maybe they're testing a 2016 model, with whatever changes they're making to it?

EDIT - they could also be trying to get an official 'ring lap time, their first couple attempts were rained out. Maybe they're practicing again.

 

[thebigjimsho]

Have you ever tried sliding an AWD car around a corner then just pinning the gas pedal? Try it sometime. An AWD car, at least a performance AWD car like the STi, will simply go where you point it. Try that in a RWD car like the V, and you will just spin out and hit a tree. As I've said many times before, AWD is not just for straight line traction. Not only that, most good AWD systems in performance cars have the ability to add or remove power to each wheel individually in concert with pitch and yaw sensors, giving it superhuman grip levels in corners. There's a reason the GT-R can get around tracks the way it does, and it's not because it has tires made out of superglue.

Dear Cadillac, give us the option of AWD, because some of us enjoy being able to actually use all that power, rather than turning it into tire smoke every time you touch the throttle below 60 MPH.

That just looks like a Z06 to me. Maybe they're testing a 2016 model, with whatever changes they're making to it?

EDIT - they could also be trying to get an official 'ring lap time, their first couple attempts were rained out. Maybe they're practicing again.

Again, compare the Z28 C&D Lightning Lap to the GT-R. Yeah, the Nissan is a touch faster. It also involves little of the driver and is quite boring.

If you like to brag about what your car can do, fine. If you really love to just drive, and fast, a proper RWD is far better. Period.

 

[Xaqtly]

Again, compare the Z28 C&D Lightning Lap to the GT-R. Yeah, the Nissan is a touch faster. It also involves little of the driver and is quite boring.

If you like to brag about what your car can do, fine. If you really love to just drive, and fast, a proper RWD is far better. Period.

The problem is that your opinion isn't the same thing as fact. The nissan is faster, and it's faster on skinnier tires with less grip. Nobody cares whether you think it's boring or not, it's not about bragging, and clearly if you really love to drive fast you can definitely do that in an AWD car. The GT-R is just one example of that, there are dozens more. Again, do what I told you to do and see how that works out for you. Go ahead, floor it in the middle of a corner while you're turning. Tell me how much "better" it is when you're out in the weeds.

I know RWD is fun, I also drive a CTS-V. But the CTS-V has traction problems with 556 HP, it's going to have a lot more with 640. Making the power usable is not taking anything away from the fun factor. if you think it is, you've never driven a well sorted AWD performance car.

 

[nsaness]

Have you ever tried sliding an AWD car around a corner then just pinning the gas pedal? Try it sometime. An AWD car, at least a performance AWD car like the STi, will simply go where you point it. Try that in a RWD car like the V, and you will just spin out and hit a tree. As I've said many times before, AWD is not just for straight line traction. Not only that, most good AWD systems in performance cars have the ability to add or remove power to each wheel individually in concert with pitch and yaw sensors, giving it superhuman grip levels in corners. There's a reason the GT-R can get around tracks the way it does, and it's not because it has tires made out of superglue.

Yes, I have driven an STi, an S4, and a few S6's. These drives are what turned me off to AWD. I have hammered an AWD car coming out of the corners and I got 4 wheel drift. As with all cars, when you exceed your grip, you lose traction (or even crash). AWD is a great confidence builder for someone who cannot feel what the car is doing, but it is not necessary for a skilled driver. (I am certainly not a skilled driver!) However, I will take the driving dynamics, feel, and lap times of RWD every time. All things being equal, I will put my money on the RWD having a better lap time every time.

I'm not interested in trying to convince you of my opinion (because it is only my opinion).
I do respect your opinion, but I don't agree.

However, I sincerely hope that Cadillac offers AWD as well as a Manual shift option, to make all of us happy customers.

 

[thebigjimsho]

The problem is that your opinion isn't the same thing as fact. The nissan is faster, and it's faster on skinnier tires with less grip. Nobody cares whether you think it's boring or not, it's not about bragging, and clearly if you really love to drive fast you can definitely do that in an AWD car. The GT-R is just one example of that, there are dozens more. Again, do what I told you to do and see how that works out for you. Go ahead, floor it in the middle of a corner while you're turning. Tell me how much "better" it is when you're out in the weeds.

I know RWD is fun, I also drive a CTS-V. But the CTS-V has traction problems with 556 HP, it's going to have a lot more with 640. Making the power usable is not taking anything away from the fun factor. if you think it is, you've never driven a well sorted AWD performance car.

That's nice. I'll have more driving enjoyment with RWD. Go buy an auto AWD and have your fun...

 

[Xaqtly]

However, I will take the driving dynamics, feel, and lap times of RWD every time. All things being equal, I will put my money on the RWD having a better lap time every time.

Unless you're racing against a GT-R. Right? I get it, you like RWD, I do too. But downplaying the advantages of AWD is not helpful. It's not my opinion that AWD has more grip than RWD. It's not my opinion that RWD has limitations in a turn that AWD doesn't. These are facts, not opinions. If I take a tight turn, hit the apex and floor it in my V, what happens? Right, the rear gets loose and I either have to drift it until I get traction again or I have to let off the throttle. Sure, that's fun. But is it faster than having full grip at the same point in the turn and blasting out to the edge of the track using all the power your engine has? No. No it's not. AWD having more grip through turns isn't an opinion, it's a fact. It's non-negotiable. AWD has more grip than RWD does. More drive wheels equals more grip.

I'm not saying there aren't any fast RWD cars because obviously there are. But the simple truth is that they are limited by how much power the rear end can successfully put to the ground through only two wheels. If you have extremely high grip limits like the Z06, you get spectacular grip numbers and lap times. But the GT-R can get right up there with similar times using smaller wheels and tires, with less power, because it has AWD.

The V3 CTS-V has ~100 more HP and torque than the V2. And it weighs less, increasing the power to weight ratio by that much more. Are you under the impression that in the V3 you'll be able to just floor it through a turn? How about from a stop light, full throttle and just move off the line? Yeah, of course not. Either TC will limit your power until you have grip, or you'll just light up your rear tires and create your own smokescreen. You punch it through an apex and you'll be drifting, not gripping.

Like I said, fun, but not faster. My V has ~730 HP, I get beaten off the line by Fiestas. Why? Not enough grip. I could do drag radials to solve that problem - and it would solve that problem - but you lose some of the handling characteristics that way. But with AWD, in the V3, I bet you could hit sub-3 second 0-60s. On OEM street tires. With RWD? Not a chance in hell.

I'm not advocating AWD ONLY. I just think it should be an option. Making use of all your engine's power, all of the time, is a good thing.

That's nice. I'll have more driving enjoyment with RWD. Go buy an auto AWD and have your fun...

Why would I buy an auto? That's one of the reasons I'm not getting a V3. RWD is not a bad thing, but at the V3's power levels AWD would be really helpful.

 

[nsaness]

As you said, the GT-R is nothing special on its own, but the electronic nannies intervene and perform wonderfully. In particular, the GT-R can make a mediocre driver look like he has skills due to all of the electronic wizardry going on. It's a great car if that is your thing. In general, I was saying having the front wheels brake, drive, and steer compromises the driving dynamics. I don't agree with your "facts", but I "get" your viewpoint.