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Discussion Starter #1
Can I get the numbers from guys that did the V exhaust swap and ran their car in the dyno. I think we already proved that the V exhaust doesnt make you loose power it actually gives you a 4hp increase but what I think is that it makes you loose a lot of torque over 10 pounds of torque loss in my eyes.
 

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I don't think anyone has done a before and after on a 3.6 with the V Exhaust. To be accurate it would have to be a 100% stock CTS, same CTS, same day and same dyno. To my knowledge this hasn't been done. Where did you get your numbers?
 

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well, i don't think it necessarily has to be stock, but the car has to be consistent from stock exhaust to v exhaust. if it has an intake or other mods in both runs it should be fair.

i know i've said this before, but i wouldn't put a v exhaust on my 3.2. too big. MAYBE on the 3.6...but thats less "iffy." like it's been mentioned, these companies have done extensive research to find mid-points between torque, HP, and tube diameter. if there was a huge advantage for a 3.2 or 3.6 with a 2.5 tube, you can bet they'd use it.

for asthetic and budget,purposes, the v exhaust is perfect. for those who want the balance...i just woudln't recommend it.
 

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TripleOught said:
well, i don't think it necessarily has to be stock, but the car has to be consistent from stock exhaust to v exhaust. if it has an intake or other mods in both runs it should be fair.

i know i've said this before, but i wouldn't put a v exhaust on my 3.2. too big. MAYBE on the 3.6...but thats less "iffy." like it's been mentioned, these companies have done extensive research to find mid-points between torque, HP, and tube diameter. if there was a huge advantage for a 3.2 or 3.6 with a 2.5 tube, you can bet they'd use it.

for asthetic and budget,purposes, the v exhaust is perfect. for those who want the balance...i just woudln't recommend it.
I disagree 3x0. If you have a Volant intake its possible one exhaust set up might perform differently than the other with an improved intake. The scientist would say both have to be stock to be accurate.

It's not the same but look at the differences in the Volant on a 3.2 vs 3.6.
 

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RobertCTS said:
I don't think anyone has done a before and after on a 3.6 with the V Exhaust. To be accurate it would have to be a 100% stock CTS, same CTS, same day and same dyno. To my knowledge this hasn't been done. Where did you get your numbers?
I did....with a slight variance..I have the volant..so if SD takes HaveBlue numbers with stock pipes and the volant, and compare to mine with V-pipes and the volant, then he could get an idea...oh damn, i have those magnaflows too...maybe not after all..
 

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Discussion Starter #9
RobertCTS said:
I don't think anyone has done a before and after on a 3.6 with the V Exhaust. To be accurate it would have to be a 100% stock CTS, same CTS, same day and same dyno. To my knowledge this hasn't been done. Where did you get your numbers?
Haveblue has a stock exhaust with the 3.6L and using the Volant he pushed 217 pounds of torque even with the stock intake he pushed 212 pounds of torque. Pj pushed 190 pounds of torque so that tells me the V exhaust makes the CTS loose about 27 pounds of torque compared to the stock 2" exhaust.

*****Also I know for a fact Pj's engine is not under powered because I seen it perform personally before he put the V exhaust on and it was doing real good.***** I bet if he replaces the V exhaust with a 2.25 exhaust like the Corsa he would gain over 20 pounds of torque EASY.
 

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I'll leave it rest for know but Comparing HaveBlue And PJ results are not reliable. Tested on differerent days, differerent temperatures/humidity, different dynos and different cars & drivers. It's not congruent data even though the data may prove in your favor..as it may well be.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
RobertCTS said:
I'll leave it rest for know but Comparing HaveBlue And PJ results are not reliable. Tested on differerent days, differerent temperatures/humidity, different dynos and different cars & drivers. It's not congruent data even though the data may prove in your favor..as it may well be.
I agree with you 100% that the V exhaust loosing 27 pounds of torque is not the exact number but come one now there is no way based day temp and humidity its going to throw the number off that much. Also the driver has nothing to do with it since its an Automatic they just take it to where the limiter kicks in but I agree the number 27 is not accurate since its different 3.6" CTS's
 

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SdMarineGuy said:
I agree with you 100% that the V exhaust loosing 27 pounds of torque is not the exact number but come one now there is no way based day temp and humidity its going to throw the number off that much. Also the driver has nothing to do with it since its an Automatic they just take it to where the limiter kicks in but I agree the number 27 is not accurate since its different 3.6" CTS's
I agree, too much difference to be explaned by environmental conditions. 4 or 5 hp of lbs of torque can be the result of variation, not 25+
 

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TripleOught said:
i need every advantage i can get with this 3.2 banger.
3x0,
There is hope..limited only by money. Lund Cadillac pumped out about 1100HP out of the 3.2 for the Salt Flat Speed Runs. Unbelievable but true!!

 

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SdMarineGuy said:
I agree with you 100% that the V exhaust loosing 27 pounds of torque is not the exact number but come one now there is no way based day temp and humidity its going to throw the number off that much. Also the driver has nothing to do with it since its an Automatic they just take it to where the limiter kicks in but I agree the number 27 is not accurate since its different 3.6" CTS's
I gotta agree. Too much of a difference to be accounted for, with the V exhuast being the major variable. A driver on a dyno never has anything to do with it, in that case. I really don't understand why we even need dyno results for this. The M3 doesn't even have 2.5" exhuast. 2.5" is stock on a 400 hp 6.0L V8!
 

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I'm wondering if one of the variables is the 2" section just after the cats were most have slid the V-exhaust over the 1 foot section were the O2 sensors are. Mine was modded by adding the O2 sensors into the 2.5" section of the existing exhaust and bolted directly to the cats, a nice smooth transition. I personally feel a slight increase in the seat of the pants acceleration over the old system. I know that isn't hard proof, but I know even slight bends in a exhaust system can rob torque and power. I need to try and dyno my setup and see if their is a difference.
 

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B Hoth said:
I'm wondering if one of the variables is the 2" section just after the cats were most have slid the V-exhaust over the 1 foot section were the O2 sensors are. Mine was modded by adding the O2 sensors into the 2.5" section of the existing exhaust and bolted directly to the cats, a nice smooth transition. I personally feel a slight increase in the seat of the pants acceleration over the old system. I know that isn't hard proof, but I know even slight bends in a exhaust system can rob torque and power. I need to try and dyno my setup and see if their is a difference.
I'm jealous Hoth. That is really a clean install!:thumbsup:
 

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The backpressure difference between 2" and 2.5 inches throughout the exhaust must me huge, maybe too large a change, like running open headers.

Simply adding aftermarket mufflers to the existing system or a custom bent system would probably be best, and as the marine says, the muffler companies would be selling a 2.5" system if it would work.

A small reduction in backpressure is usually what is required to give better performance, nothing huge. Engineers spend months and months drawing and testing exhausts on paper way before they actually try them on the car.

I think if you are looking for more noise then the V exhause is the way to go, but for performance there is another route.
 

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They are also in the profit buisness, who's to say without a test that the 2.5" system isn't as good or only a neglegable bit better then the 2" system. It then stands to reason that if the 2" and the 2.5" are say the same, then they offer the 2" because it is less to manufacture, and why offer 2.5" when there is no additional benefit. I also believe with new cars now, the space tollerances have become so close that keeping these type items as close to stock specs as possible makes for easier installs and require less modification to mount. My reasoning was I should get better flow with nice tips for the price virtually of the tips alone, and being the body design underneath our ride versus the V is so similar, it stands to reason that it would basicly be plug and play. What we really need is a dyno with this set-up and with the 16" wheel package to better see the difference from stock. Thanks Robert, I took your advice and I'm really pleased with the results. I've turned two other members on to the guy who did the install. I'm curious how INDO's 3.6 exhaust install on his 3.2 turns out. Now that should be worth a pic. (INDO how goes the progress)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
B Hoth said:
They are also in the profit buisness, who's to say without a test that the 2.5" system isn't as good or only a neglegable bit better then the 2" system. It then stands to reason that if the 2" and the 2.5" are say the same, then they offer the 2" because it is less to manufacture, and why offer 2.5" when there is no additional benefit. I also believe with new cars now, the space tollerances have become so close that keeping these type items as close to stock specs as possible makes for easier installs and require less modification to mount. My reasoning was I should get better flow with nice tips for the price virtually of the tips alone, and being the body design underneath our ride versus the V is so similar, it stands to reason that it would basicly be plug and play. What we really need is a dyno with this set-up and with the 16" wheel package to better see the difference from stock. Thanks Robert, I took your advice and I'm really pleased with the results. I've turned two other members on to the guy who did the install. I'm curious how INDO's 3.6 exhaust install on his 3.2 turns out. Now that should be worth a pic. (INDO how goes the progress)
The Corsa and all the other aftermarket exhaust is 2.25" not 2". I understand you wanted more flow so you went with the V exhaust but that is TOO MUCH FLOW. come on we have dual exhaust straight from the engine 2.5" is way too much. Pj's dyno proved it he lost a lot of torque compared to the 2" stock exhaust you need back pressure to produce torque. You say the aftermarket exhaust manufactures decided to go with 2" which is wrong all after market exhaust companies for the 3.6 used the 2.25 inches for a reason because it give you the best performance. Imagine if I had a company called blahblah.com and I found out a 2.5" exhaust would perform better then Corsa and Borla and all of them I would produce a 2.5" exhaust for the 3.6 and put those BIG companies out of business. There is not doubt about it the V exhaust makes you loose torque I am not trying to be an ass hole but I am putting this out to prevent forum users from going the V route trying to get more power because they will end up loosing and this is what this forum is about. Let me brake it down the way it makes sense to me.

Ok you have a straw that is 2" inch and you blow through it and your cheeks hurts because it is too small so that exhaust is restrictive so you go blow through a 2.25" straw and your checks don't hurt but you don't feel like you are blowing too much WELL you blow through a 2.5" straw and you realize you are blowing TOO MUCH because your breathe can only produce soo much air that you feel like your blowing to thin air. I don't know if that makes sense but that is the way it is the V exhaust will give your car LESS TORQUE. 2.5" dual exhaust was made for a 5.7 V8 not for a 6 cylinder 3.6L come on dawg its kinda common sense.
 
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