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CTS V
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Here are the pictures and write up I promised.. Here is how it worked out.. I want to share my findings with you all.. When I own a dyno it makes it really nice to figure out mods truly works and which ones do not. So this is a lot of time and work but I will try to keep it simple for you guys. Please note.. I am running 5.5 lbs of boost.


When I bought the car it had kooks long tubes and high flow cats with the maggie on it, rest of the car was stock. I threw it on my dyno and it made 389 WHP. I was not happy at all.

I then figured it was because it was using stock mufflers on a car that didn't come with a supercharger so I took off the stock mufflers and welded on some magnaflow stainless steel ones. Put it back on the dyno.. 413 WHP.. okay, getting a little better but still not happy.. I am tuning NA LS6 motors weekly that make 400-430.. So I knew I had something more left in it.

I then put it back on my dyno and tuned it all with HP tuners. This brought me up to 425 whp.

From there I was stumped.. I couldn't figure out why my power was so pathetic. I had a new K&N filter.. Tune, nice flowing exhaust, etc.. The power would not move above 425 and I knew something wasn't right.

Then I started thinking about what makes power or restricts power and of course air flow came into my mind once again. I started messing around with my intake system and decided to work on it a little. I completely took out my stock air box and left it open..

Then I went to auto zone and bought a 20 dollar sceptre air filter and connected it right to my intake tube. Threw it back on the dyno and my blower was twice as loud through the whole dyno run.. I was watching my HP tuner log during the run and I seen it pulling timing like crazy through the run where it never did that before, but I just let it finish the run. I couldn't believe what I seen on my dyno results..

Long story short I retuned my car and took out timing and added more fuel to where the computer wasn't pulling any at all and that is how I ended up with the power I did at only 5.5 lbs of boost. the difference was the intake. It may or may not work for you guys but it was the golden ticket for me.. I need to mention that you MUST re tune your car if you do this. I couldn't believe how much my tune changed by only changing my intake..


This is what I started with when I bought the car



this is where it was after I changed my mufflers and tuned it..




this is where I am now.. the ONLY change between the last dyno sheet and this one is my air intake and a retune. Notice how much better my torque line looks and how it doesn't fall off.. This is because it was able to pull in a lot more air than it ever was before. The higher you rev the maggie the more air it needs and a stock box can not keep up. No matter what filter you use.




This is what it looks like:






Thanks guys .. hope this helps a few of you! I am sure you can cut your inner fender and make some type of a true cold air system but I didn't want to hack up my car.. So I left it the way it is and just put the cone filter where the stock air box was. Seems to work just fine for me right where it is..
 

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2005 Platinum CTS V-Headers+3in pipes
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did you pull the rubber snorkel??? removing it might open the filter up to the elements but it will definitely create a direct path for cool air to flow to the intake..
one of these might also help you get colder air for that beast..


you could probably fab up a shield like this out of sheet metal for alot cheaper then the lingenfelter shield costs
 

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CTS V
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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
yeah I just barely put this on my car. I definitely need to make some type of a heat shield to put on the back side of the filter.. Obviously having that engine heat sucking into the filter will hurt my power a little. I literally took out my air box, hooked up the new filter, retuned my car and left everything else the same. I want to play with this a little more but so far my results were incredible with what I did.. The power pulls so much longer and harder it's nuts.. I still want to work on it a little more and change things around a little and work on a shield and better air inlet system.. Im guessing there is about 10 more potential hp left in the intake system.. I would of never imagined I would gain 50 from what I did though.. But I guess it makes sense.. Your only as good as your weakest link.. You can't suck a marble through a straw.. The stock air box is a massive air restriction.. Blower wants more air than the stock box can give it.
 

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Tis Gone :(
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50 hp gain but you lost 5 torque?
 

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2011 CTS-V
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i think its pretty well known that positive displacement blowers are pretty sensitive to intake restrictions... nice job with the discovery.

i hope you can help the community out with actually seeing what makes power and what doesn't since you have your own dyno!
 

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CTS V
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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
We see this a lot on many different setups.. having pressure and less air flow will increase torque from the get go but it will fall off much faster and harder when it can't breathe or move any more air. with the last dyno run notice how much harder the HP line goes up and how flat the torque line is all the way across the power band.. That is because it is sucking in as much air as it wants all the way through and it doesn't fall off. Having a restriction of some type will always gain a little torque but lose HP.. If your restriction disappears you will gain HP and lose torque.. It's all about pressure and of course your displacement has a lot to do with torque..

As a perfect example Just look at the differences between oval port heads and rectangular port heads on big block chevys.. You have heard it for years. oval port heads are torque monsters down low but fall off hard after the midrange RPM and are not designed to rev high ( meets its bottle neck with air flow ) but rectangular port heads have less overall torque but makes way more power , especially up in the RPMS.. It is just because of back pressure and air flow.. The more air you can move the more HP you will make..

This is my old NA motor in my camaro.. Obviously this is a rectangular port setup. If this were Oval port my HP would fall off around 4800 and my torque would be a lot higher down low but fall off quicker.. But instead my power band just keeps going past 6k with a decent torque line..Obviously I didn't need oval port heads because I am pushing over 500 cubes.. I already have the torque because of my displacement... The torque line is nice and flat because there isn't much of a restriction in those merlin aluminum heads.. If this were a oval port setup with a air restriction the torque would be a lot higher to begin with but fall off fast.. it's all about opinion.. Some people like having more torque while others like more HP.. I figured losing 5 TQ but gaining 50 HP was worth it on my caddy and it is definitely a lot faster.. Which is why I ALWAYS go with rectangular port heads in my big block chevys as well.. Less restriction = more power & less torque.. but we are V8 guys.. We already have the torque.. That's why honda guys are revving to 8K to make power.. They need all the air flow they can get because they don't have the displacement or a way to make the torque that us V8 guys do :)

 

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CTS V
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Discussion Starter #7
i think its pretty well known that positive displacement blowers are pretty sensitive to intake restrictions... nice job with the discovery.

i hope you can help the community out with actually seeing what makes power and what doesn't since you have your own dyno!
definitely! if anyone has any ideas for me to try let me know and I will try it out and post the results.. :bouncy:
 

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2004 CTS-V
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Well, this is the EXACT same thing I posted in my last thread about how I swapped to 2.8 pulley, jerked out my stock airbox, and threw on a K&N cone filter. It is much much much louder now. I can even hear the hissing of air being pulled in by the filter as much as I hear the whine of the blower when I romp on it.
 

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'06 Z06, '05 CTS-V 453rwhp/434rwtq (sold)
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Wait wait wait....what is this sceptre air filter all about? I am running a K&N, whats the difference? I am making the same power as you were when you were using your stock airbox. My torque is definitely falling off way before yours and my hp flatlines at 6k where yours wants to keep going.

Care to share some details on the final tune? I can see that you leaned it out above 5000 rpms. And you said you pulled timing too? How much and what did you end up at?

Here is my graph. Help me!

 

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2018 CT6E, old: 2014 XTS Vsport, 2005 CTS-V, 2004 CTS-V.
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Oh good! I am not alone now with basically a filter hanging from the blower sound! :)


Norm

Well, this is the EXACT same thing I posted in my last thread about how I swapped to 2.8 pulley, jerked out my stock airbox, and threw on a K&N cone filter. It is much much much louder now. I can even hear the hissing of air being pulled in by the filter as much as I hear the whine of the blower when I romp on it.
 

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What TB is on your maggie? standard LS6 or the LS2 90mm tb? I would imagine that should help get the air in there a lil better too.
 

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04 CTS-V with a little hp persuasion device
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I've got a Volant airbox and filter flowing throught the LS6 TB and my car seems to pull hard all the way to redline. It is really really loud as well. I can rev it to about 3k and you can hear the blower very well. I have not had it on a dyno or retuned yet but I really need to. I believe the computer is only tuned for the extra boost with the overdrive pulley. I've got a few extra things that Luna didn't and with out the retune I'm know I'm leaving a lot on the table. As soon as I can get in someplace I'll get tuned. One place said July, another wanted $900 to tune it, another place said a month but I would be the first GM he's tuned. My options aren't the best right now.

Once I finally got the exhaust done the car runs great now and doesn't load up and foul the plugs. I'm seeing about 9lbs of boost now and the car pulls great but like I said, I'm leaving a lot on the table not have been tuned for the cam, 1 7/8 headers, low compression, and a few other things. I really want to get the 90mm snout as I already have the TB and adapter harness. That should really let her breath easy.
 

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I really want to get the 90mm snout as I already have the TB and adapter harness. That should really let her breath easy.
Me too, but I do not feel like sending it to Magnuson for them to put it on. I just want the parts.
 

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Me too, but I do not feel like sending it to Magnuson for them to put it on. I just want the parts.

Same here. I can install that in 20 min.
 

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CTS V
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Discussion Starter #15
I've got a Volant airbox and filter flowing throught the LS6 TB and my car seems to pull hard all the way to redline. It is really really loud as well. I can rev it to about 3k and you can hear the blower very well. I have not had it on a dyno or retuned yet but I really need to.
where are you located? they told you 900 for a tune? good god man..
 

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CTS V
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Discussion Starter #16
Wait wait wait....what is this sceptre air filter all about? I am running a K&N, whats the difference? I am making the same power as you were when you were using your stock airbox. My torque is definitely falling off way before yours and my hp flatlines at 6k where yours wants to keep going.

Care to share some details on the final tune? I can see that you leaned it out above 5000 rpms. And you said you pulled timing too? How much and what did you end up at?

Here is my graph. Help me!

did you tune the car with hp tuners? can you email me your tune so I can look at it? You are having an air restriction somewhere which is why yours is falling off at 6k.. these maggies love to rev high and I could keep making power if I raised my rev limiter but I don't want to chance anything on a stock valvetrain.

Have you tried running on the dyno without an air filter on? That will let you know if its a intake restriction or not based on your results. What exhaust do you have? headers? cats? mufflers? Mine is leaning out a little up high because I am running out of fuel.. It can't feed any more fuel.. But luckily I am still safe to redline. If I added any more power I would need a new fuel pump and possibly injectors soon after. I tried like crazy to add more fuel up high and it wouldn't do it.. So right now I am aggressive on the air fuel above 6k but its still plenty safe according to my logs.

I want to add a cam to my car but in order to do that I will need to work on my fuel system as well so I decided to keep it right where it is for awhile and just enjoy it..
 
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I have found the same with my NA LS2. Less timing + more fuel and a custom aluminum intake with Lingenfelter CAI really hauls a$$. Everytime I lean it out a little to reduce the black smoke it loses some power, I just live with the black smoke and clean the exhaust regularly.
 

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did you tune the car with hp tuners? can you email me your tune so I can look at it? You are having an air restriction somewhere which is why yours is falling off at 6k.. these maggies love to rev high and I could keep making power if I raised my rev limiter but I don't want to chance anything on a stock valvetrain.
My car is tuned with HP Tuners but not by me, and I don't have the software so I can't send it to you. I am seriously considering purchasing it though. Too many car things to spend money on I don't know what to do.

Have you tried running on the dyno without an air filter on? That will let you know if its a intake restriction or not based on your results. What exhaust do you have? headers? cats? mufflers?
I have not tried that, but I am going to a dyno day on June 13th and may give that a shot. I have kooks 1 3/4", high flow cats and a magnaflow catback.
 

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04 CTS-V with a little hp persuasion device
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I'm in OK. I called down to OKC and he said it would be 850 to 900. I had a thread on it just a few days ago. He said that included going to a two bar and new OS and his hourly rate of $150 an hour. Needless to say I didnt call him back after he actually tried to justify his price.
 
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