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'99 Eldorado 77,000 miles
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Discussion Starter #1
Alright, it's been some time since I've been around (seminary takes priority) and I've had very little time to do any sort of work/research on my car aside from a bit of browsing my Alldata.

This last week I finally took some time to redo (again) my former 'CAI'. It is currently running out in front of the radiator and below the grille line (before it was just under the hood with a hose running to the OEM lower air box). I have also fabricated a shield to protect the filter from the elements that is also removable. I'll post a picture eventually.

I wish I had been smarter in the beginning as I could have saved myself a lot of time and some money by doing it right the first time. I have not done any formal tests, but the fact that my service engine soon light no longer comes on is promising.

Now then, I have been reading some of the posts on here looking to see what my next projects will be. I've decided I'm going to do some custom work on the exhaust (catback), put some corsa db mufflers on, and possibly take a look at the flattened bend in the exhaust right before the Cat.

I read a post from Raze today that had this:

Ported throttlebody/spacer ~ Get someone with a lathe and it can be done cheap, pay someone to do it for you and you're looking around a couple hundred. Otherwise easy bolt on, also good for a few HP
I've heard some good stuff about this, but at the same time, I've found a lot of people of the opinion that this mod will do absolutely nothing for your performance. Could anyone shed some light on how porting the throttlebody would be a benefit/detriment to my Eldorado?

Let me reiterate, I know very well that there are no cheap mod kits out there to add an 'instant 100 HP'. So, I don't need another full lecture on how all the low hanging fruit has been picked. I'm looking to get a ladder for the higher hanging fruits :)
 

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94 Eldorado, and a 99 ETC
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Ported TB's will give a few extra hp, but the main reason people do it is for better throttle response. Only problem I see is that you'll be headed to the gas pump more often because your foot will need to loose weight to adjust.
 

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90 Eldo -SOLD-, 98 ETC -SOLD-, 86 XR4Ti Track Car, 07 Ranger
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I have a ported TB, IMHO it's worth nothing. I don't know about improved throttle response, MPG, or anything else, I was working on a bunch of modifications but have since scrapped them all and moved on to my track-dedicated car, sold my 1990 Eldo and am in the process of selling my 98. If you want a ladder to higher hanging fruit my friend be prepared to buy a gold ladder, cause that's the path...

I pieced together a DIY homemade remote mount turbo kit including a piggyback that will work on our cars (people can debate this all day long but I've seen Bob Ida's brother's 1948 Tucker with the FWD N* running turbos on a piggybacked stock PCM and had a lengthy conversation to the effect that if they can piggy a Ford GT w/o throwing codes and countless Corvettes and Porsches, they were confident that they could replicate the Tucker's piggy back on an in-Cadillac w/o codes very nicely) for a total cost of around $1500. It would only be capable of 5psi of boost or so but that should be good for 75-100HP and should be doable on stock internals (pistons/rods) w/o the need (in the short term) of buying forged internals which alone are going to run $1500 w/o any of the other parts you'll need to rebuild the N* once you crack it apart including head studs, new head gaskets, etc etc. I say this is doable because people on this board are running 75-150 HP shots of nitrous through their N*s and they're holding up fine. Read my sticky mega post for serious upgrades, and search around for some of my other posts, I think I fully outlined all the pieces in my homemmade kit on AJs Eaton M90 supercharger thread in the N* Technical Discussion board but I don't remember.

Before anyone jumps on me about knowing what I'm doing with a turbo system understand (and I'm leaving out alot of detail here) I've rebuilt and modified a 2.3Turbo in an XR4Ti from a piddly T3 at 15psi un-intercooled pushing 170 stock crank HP to a Holset HY35 to 30psi with a custom built intercooler setup thats very efficient pushing over 350WHP. I'm very familiar with building a turbo setup including tuning, I built a MegaSquirt stand alone, rebuilt the wiring harness from scratch, upgraded injectors, fuel pump, I've tuned the crap out of our setup holding safe AFRs with excellent throttle response and driveability. While I don't know 'exactly' what will happen with a N*, I have some good assumptions based on my experience, and have a good idea of what it would take. Also, AJs LS1 based engine management swap would make the piggy back thing moot, and be alot nicer IMO.
 

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'99 Eldorado 77,000 miles
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Discussion Starter #4
Oh, I know I'm going to be investing a lot of money in any work I do. I've come to terms with that reality.

We have talked about the turbo before, I recall. Is the psi boost controlled by mechanical tuning or computer tuning. I haven't done much reading on turbochargers because I decided I'd get other things worked out first and move toward a turbocharger later on. I figured I'd go with a T3 Turbo, but what would you recommend on that?

I don't want to get hung up on the turbo idea, though. I want to focus more on the current projects. So far I have on for porting, and one against it. Submariner? Ranger? STS? Opinions?

I have a buddy that just bought a smaller pulley for his serpentine belt (on an Impala SS) to gain HP. I think I remember reading that changing pulley sizes on our engines is a bad idea or just pointless, correct? I'd think GM would have already taken that into consideration.
 

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90 Eldo -SOLD-, 98 ETC -SOLD-, 86 XR4Ti Track Car, 07 Ranger
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Get a high stall torque converter, any port work will require supporting mods from the cam and or computer tuning to take advantage of the greater flow.

A T3 is going to be balls a$$ small for a 4.6L DOHC V8, I overran it on a 2.3L OHC 4 banger. You have to learn how to read compressor maps, and calculate your engine's flow. I have some excel spreadsheets if you're really interested. Like I said in my post I was looking at running a larger Holset HX55+ to have adequate flow at 5psi or so (even this turbo choice is small for our app, a larger T-series would be optimal but they're costly, hence why I would start w/a Holset, they're off diesel trucks so they're everywhere, and slightly-moderate used ones go for $300, and these are turbos that live 200k or more between rebuilds, no they're not as efficient as the ball bearing turbos fom Garrett, but they're no where near the cost). As far as under-drive pulleys go, they aren't going to do you good as they're supposed to slow down all your accessories to reduce parasitc losses, this would work in theory, but our charging system is VERY sensitive and you'd need to step the alternator pulley up to compensate, your powersteering wouldn't have enough pressure and might even throw a code, so you'd need to step up that pulley too, and then there's the A/C. In the end, not worth it...High stall torque converter, and get a shot of nitrous, upgrade your brake rotors, pads, get performace rims/really good performance rubber, and an Eibach spring kit to make it handle and stop better than it does and throw on a high flow exhaust, and I'm not talking about just a cat-back system, I'm talking full headers, custom plumbing, that'd give the best bang for your buck, then enjoy, just my .02, not worth much...
 

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'99 Eldorado 77,000 miles
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Discussion Starter #6
haha... I'm sure it's worth a little more than nothing. Thanks for your continued input!

Any other people willing to discuss some of the aforementioned things?
 

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eldorado
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Dose you car have the good eng or the musshy engine? and seceondly 'souping' up one of these is by no means chaep , And if you break it tweaking it WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! thats a whole nudder story ..
 

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eldorado
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OH and when most people tweek em and peak em they do it to tear a jap car with a cadillac! You cant imagine the look on some 20somthing in a gt ford getting his ass handed to by a 4 door STS...Beiah!
 

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'99 Eldorado 77,000 miles
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Discussion Starter #9
Well, I guess it's a matter of opinion whether or not the N* is a good engine. I am of the opinion that it's a wonderful engine with a LOT of potential power. That said, it already does have a lot of power. Just seems like you can do more with the proper equipment.

The way I see it Raze... If I get a high stall torque converter... that doesn't seem to solve the problem of my tires spinning at WOT lol
 

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90 Eldo -SOLD-, 98 ETC -SOLD-, 86 XR4Ti Track Car, 07 Ranger
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Well, I guess it's a matter of opinion whether or not the N* is a good engine. I am of the opinion that it's a wonderful engine with a LOT of potential power. That said, it already does have a lot of power. Just seems like you can do more with the proper equipment.
I agree, just limited enthusiast crowd finding out about these cars too late, that and the fact they had a stigma for the past 10 years about being an old man's car...

The way I see it Raze... If I get a high stall torque converter... that doesn't seem to solve the problem of my tires spinning at WOT lol
You'd need alot of power for your tires to be spinning at WOT, Only Mark99STS with his custom turbo setup could do it, and only on 1st and 2nd gears but it was mostly due to having to switch back to skinny tall street tires (he had M/Ts) but after the turbo plumbing required him to run the front exhasut UNDER the front cradle he needed more ground clearnace, and that goes back to my 2nd post about getting better rims with some super stickey rubber, go wider on your rim choice, you may have to have the fenders rolled and remove the inner splash guard to clearnace the, but it really depends on the offset you get. I went with ever so slightly wider tires and If I'm turned full over with my Eibachs on a hard corner I'll rub the inner splash guard just a skoche, but I love the responsiveness of my brake/suspension setup over stock.
 

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'99 Eldorado 77,000 miles
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Discussion Starter #11
Wait... Maybe I'm saying it wrong. My tires are not getting traction when I go WOT from resting, thus spinning. Having the high stall torque converter would allow me to rev my engine higher while in gear under brake, but that doesn't help keep me from burning out. While burning out can be fun, it's really annoying when it takes you a good second to get going lol.

Wait... That seems like it's what you're telling me though- to get tires that will grab the road better? Gah! My terminology sucks! I think you are telling me the right thing- I'm just not being smart about it. What kind of tires would you recommend?

I'm starting to think it's getting to be that time to buy a new PCM and have it shipped to AJ- that is if he's still doing it... I'll hold off on it for now, though...
 

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What brand / make of tires and size do you have on the car now? What tire pressure? What's ambient temps like where you live these days?
 

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'99 Eldorado 77,000 miles
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Discussion Starter #13
I live in Iowa mainly. Missouri when seminary is in session. So the climate is pretty typical. The tires I keep at the recommended 30. I'm almost certain they're goodyear tires. They're the standard tires for a car rated for 112. I'll look at them a little later to get the specifics.
 

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If you have OEM sized tires and are 'spinning' through 1st and 2nd gears, something's up, either you have smaller than stock sized tires, they're very very hard (overinflated) or you don't have tires that get good traction in colder weather, either way, something would be up. I'd switch to better tires first, and yeah that's what i was saying, better rubber will grab better, leading to better traction, but more torque steer. I noticed when I went from stock sized tires to slightly wider that I went from being able to chirp 1st and 2nd to not at all but more torque steer...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
They are OEM tires. And when going WOT from stand still, i usually get a second at least of 'burnout'... It really bugs me because I can't get an accurate 0-60 time when I'm losing a second to bad traction.

I'm not looking to get new rims just yet. My eldo came with some pretty nice ones. I'm rather sold on them (for now). Which leaves me with looking at tires that aren't wider, but are better built...
 
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