Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
2005 Deville base
Joined
·
101 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2005 DeVille with 130K miles. The tranny fluid has 25K life left according to the onboard computer.
When I first start the car in the morning it shift very hard. Like it hangs in first and then in second with the engine straining. That last for the first 5 or 10 minutes then its gone. Does this sound like the tranny is going ? I can't even pull a dipstick to check the fluid level. I don't know what genius designed a sealed unit.
Any ideas what's going on?
 

·
Super Moderator
2003 Deville Base
Joined
·
5,261 Posts
Have you pulled codes? Why can you not check the fluid? The dipstick is there, to be checked at operating temp, engine running, level ground.
See Pages 5-21 thru 5-23 in your owner's manual.
 

·
Registered
2005 Deville base
Joined
·
101 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited by Moderator)
Have you pulled codes? Why can you not check the fluid? The dipstick is there, to be checked at operating temp, engine running, level ground.
See Pages 5-21 thru 5-23 in your owner's manual.
I believe its a sealed system. I cant find a dipstick

If tranny fluid is low would I get a warning on the dash?
Assuming its not low, should I just get the fluid changed now since it has 130K miles on it? My concern is it will get worse with new fluid. Computer says 25K life remaining
 

·
Registered
2001 eldorado,2008 DTS,2005 XLR, '96 eldo,'95 eldo,' 89 eldo,'78 eldo,'11CTS-V
Joined
·
1,848 Posts
Dipstick is below the air cleaner and water pump.
Check only while running..
 

·
Registered
2005 Deville base
Joined
·
101 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks guys! I will have a look today........On another question, with 130K and 25% remaining life on the fluid, should I have it changed? A lot of people tell me changing it is a bad idea at this point.
 

·
Registered
2001 eldorado,2008 DTS,2005 XLR, '96 eldo,'95 eldo,' 89 eldo,'78 eldo,'11CTS-V
Joined
·
1,848 Posts
If the fluid is red, it's ok; brown, not ok.
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
70,311 Posts
The DIC says "25%" fluid life remaining, not 25,000 miles. No, there is no fluid level sensor. Temperature, pressure - yes. Fluid level is, like engine oil level, part of normal underhood checks and maintenance. Get into the habit of opening the hood at least once a week to look around.

If the fluid is red and sweet, don't fool with it. The dipstick is as shown - engine got, idling in P on a level surface. It's a dry sump transmission so there should be NO fluid on the stick with the engine off for 10 minutes - measuring level with the engine off is totally incorrect.

EDIT: Have you pulled any diagnostic codes from the car's built-in code system? many transmission functions are monitored for performance. You may be having early problems with the 1>2 and 2>3 shift solenoids. There's an upgraded solenoid pair and retainer brace in the field.

Here's the dipstick, interference removed. (STS, so different air intake than yours) - - -

Butt plug & air box 2.JPG
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
70,311 Posts
Not rancid or burnt smelling / tasting.

Changing all 15.2 quarts of fluid in the 4T80E is one hell of a lot more complicated than a simple pan drop. Google "cadillac forums 4t80e transmission fluid change procedure" or something close.

Fluid drain amounts -
Pan drop - 7.5 quarts
Pan drop with side tank drain - about 11 quarts
Overhaul (no converter work) - 13 quarts
Overhaul/converter from dry - 15.2 quarts

Side tank drain plug (inside transmission, pan dropped) -

4T80E side tank drain plug.jpg
 

·
Registered
2005 Deville base
Joined
·
101 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
The DIC says "25%" fluid life remaining, not 25,000 miles. No, there is no fluid level sensor. Temperature, pressure - yes. Fluid level is, like engine oil level, part of normal underhood checks and maintenance. Get into the habit of opening the hood at least once a week to look around.

If the fluid is red and sweet, don't fool with it. The dipstick is as shown - engine got, idling in P on a level surface. It's a dry sump transmission so there should be NO fluid on the stick with the engine off for 10 minutes - measuring level with the engine off is totally incorrect.

EDIT: Have you pulled any diagnostic codes from the car's built-in code system? many transmission functions are monitored for performance. You may be having early problems with the 1>2 and 2>3 shift solenoids. There's an upgraded solenoid pair and retainer brace in the field.

Here's the dipstick, interference removed. (STS, so different air intake than yours) - - -

View attachment 575864
Thanks! I found it. I don't know why but I was under the impression it was a sealed unit.
I meant 25%, typo...
btw I do get a notification when engine oil is low so I thought tranny would too....
I ran the car 30 minutes today and then pulled the dipstick, there was hardly any fluid on it except for a small amount on the bottom. It was very low. It too 4 quarts to get it to normal. Yes FOUR quarts. I ran the car on the road after adding the 4 just to verify I didn't overfill. 4 was perfect.
Now I'm thinking perhaps there is a leak somewhere.
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
70,311 Posts
Large piece of cardboard under the entire left (driver's) side of the engine after driving. Look for drips in the morning. One or more pan bolts may be loose.

The GM/Cadillac service manuals are out of print - maybe something on eBay. Otherwise, the manuals are online at www.alldatadiy.com. A heck of a lot cheaper than the (out of print) DVD or paper - they were $300 or so.
 

·
Registered
2005 Deville base
Joined
·
101 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Large piece of cardboard under the entire left (driver's) side of the engine after driving. Look for drips in the morning. One or more pan bolts may be loose.

The GM/Cadillac service manuals are out of print - maybe something on eBay. Otherwise, the manuals are online at www.alldatadiy.com. A heck of a lot cheaper than the (out of print) DVD or paper - they were $300 or so.
Are most leaks from the pan or more serious issues?
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
70,311 Posts
Our transmissions don't seem to be greatly affected by case, pan, or side cover leaks. There's no vacuum modulator, so that's not a problem. A serious torque converter or input shaft seal leak would show up at the lower engine>transmission cover at the bottom of the engine assembly. If it's overfilled the extra will blow out the vent hose attached to the throttle cable bracket - a real mess.

4T80E solenoids and sensors.gif
 

·
Super Moderator
2003 Deville Base
Joined
·
5,261 Posts
Thanks! I found it. I don't know why but I was under the impression it was a sealed unit.
I meant 25%, typo...
btw I do get a notification when engine oil is low so I thought tranny would too....
I ran the car 30 minutes today and then pulled the dipstick, there was hardly any fluid on it except for a small amount on the bottom. It was very low. It too 4 quarts to get it to normal. Yes FOUR quarts. I ran the car on the road after adding the 4 just to verify I didn't overfill. 4 was perfect.
Now I'm thinking perhaps there is a leak somewhere.
4 quarts? I sure hope the car was running, in park, and on level ground when you checked it.
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
70,311 Posts
4 quarts is pretty low - about 27% of the total fill. I'd guess that the side tank was pretty low, allowing the pressure pump to ingest quite a few bubbles: The pan scavenge pumps can move more oil than the pressure pump delivers, so the top of the side tank chamber always has bubbles in it. The pressure pump draws on the lower part of the tank, so no bubbles in the lower tank fluid - if the transmission is correctly filled, thus insuring that "solid" fluid is delivered to the clutch packs.

After a drive, pull the dipstick with the engine idling in P. You'll see bubbles. Normal with correct fill.
 

·
Registered
2005 Deville base
Joined
·
101 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
4 quarts is pretty low - about 27% of the total fill. I'd guess that the side tank was pretty low, allowing the pressure pump to ingest quite a few bubbles: The pan scavenge pumps can move more oil than the pressure pump delivers, so the top of the side tank chamber always has bubbles in it. The pressure pump draws on the lower part of the tank, so no bubbles in the lower tank fluid - if the transmission is correctly filled, thus insuring that "solid" fluid is delivered to the clutch packs.

After a drive, pull the dipstick with the engine idling in P. You'll see bubbles. Normal with correct fill.
Yup after I filled it and drive 30 minutes I pulled the dipstick. Lots of bubbles
 

·
Registered
2005 Deville base
Joined
·
101 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I put a large cardboard under the car last night and checked it this morning. There are a few spots and one was clearly red (see attached pic) - they are small. I do know I have a small oil leak that requires a quart of every 4K miles. I am told its a seal between the engine and tranny. I decided to leave it alone since its small. Other than that one red spot I cant really tell if any of the others are from the tranny. The spots are all towards the left side (front passenger) with the red spot in the middle. Not sure of that helps.
Thanks
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
2003 Deville Base
Joined
·
5,261 Posts
if you're only adding a quart of oil in 4k miles, call yourself lucky and just buy oil, considering what pulling the engine & reseal would cost.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top