[R&D Guy]

Hello, I'm a new member. I have a question regarding the solenoids that I am about to purchase for my 1993 STS. I have a schematic/blow up of the valve body assembly for a a 4T60-E, and I see a TCC (Torque Converter Control) Solenoid, A PWM Solenoid, and Solenoid 'A'. Would it be in my best interest to purchase the 3 components at once? I don't see a Shift Solenoid 'B', just the ones listed above. Am I missing something?

I am hoping that my Transmission Input Speed Sensor is not at fault, but as best as I can diagnose across the sensor and backbrobe at the PCM, all is well with the specs.

Thanks for your help - I'm sure I can return the favor in the future!

Bert

 

[cadfan]

Hello, I'm a new member. I have a question regarding the solenoids that I am about to purchase for my 1993 STS. I have a schematic/blow up of the valve body assembly for a a 4T60-E, and I see a TCC (Torque Converter Control) Solenoid, A PWM Solenoid, and Solenoid 'A'. Would it be in my best interest to purchase the 3 components at once? I don't see a Shift Solenoid 'B', just the ones listed above. Am I missing something?

I am hoping that my Transmission Input Speed Sensor is not at fault, but as best as I can diagnose across the sensor and backbrobe at the PCM, all is well with the specs.

Thanks for your help - I'm sure I can return the favor in the future!

Bert

Interesting, Ive never done shift sole. in a 4t60e only 4t80es. Are you sure of the diag? What is the complaint?

 

[Realtor1]

Hello, I'm a new member. I have a question regarding the solenoids that I am about to purchase for my 1993 STS. I have a schematic/blow up of the valve body assembly for a a 4T60-E, and I see a TCC (Torque Converter Control) Solenoid, A PWM Solenoid, and Solenoid 'A'. Would it be in my best interest to purchase the 3 components at once? I don't see a Shift Solenoid 'B', just the ones listed above. Am I missing something?

I am hoping that my Transmission Input Speed Sensor is not at fault, but as best as I can diagnose across the sensor and backbrobe at the PCM, all is well with the specs.

Thanks for your help - I'm sure I can return the favor in the future!

Bert

I also need to replace the shift solenoids in my 93 STS, I have a buddy whos brother in law is a GM man and VERY good on trannys. I talked to him about mine and he told me that there are new solenoids for the sts due to the original ones had some sort of defect. He told me only about 2 of them and said its a fairly easy job to replace if your at all mechanical.

Just out of curiosity is it acting up or did you just pull codes? Also have you priced them yet? I havent and am just wondering the cost.

What codes are you getting? My codes are PO 83, 94,110.

Hope this helps...

 

[R&D Guy]

Wel, I figured something out. You just have to be smarter than what you are dealing with. I checked my VIN, and I have the 4T80E transmission. After checking over the service manual, I am glad it is the '80'. The valvebody is accessible from the lower oil pan. This contains Shift A and Shift B Solenoids. They are the exact same, except just commanded with different signals for their respective shift pattern. If you have a 4.9L, you probably have the '60'. That valvebody is located on the side cover, which also covers the half-shaft. The '80' is independent of the half-shaft output hole, but would still be a pain to access while in the engine bay.

I'm still not convinced that it isn't the Input Speed Sensor, but hey - go for the easy and less expensive first, right? At worst, I have replaced some solenoids that will have to replaced anyways - and I will have one flush of ATF through the tranny when I have to get a dealer to service it.

My initial code was a PO56 (Transaxle Input Speed Sensor). After having a heart attack, and then clearing the codes, I received a couple others PO94 (Transaxle Shift 'A' Solenoid Problem), and PO29 (Transaxle Shift 'B' Solenoid Problem). I even went into PCM Override mode, into PS11 and tried to manually shift it into 2nd and 3rd, but to no avail. The Torque Converter Slip Speed (PD72) seems to be within 50 to 100 rpm range that is allowed, but I'm not sure how a faulty shift solenoid would effect this. Obviously, a bad Input Speed Sensor would allow this parameter to be out of range....

Hmmm...I need to recheck that PD72 value, I suppose. But two solenoids that I can get to, plus filter, fluid, and a gasket seems to be a logical choice.


Any other suggestions?

Bert

 

[R&D Guy]

Well guys, it was nothing more than a broken solenoid! $40 is much better than $1040...After dropping the pan, it was clear that the solenoid on the valvebody was broken, as it was hanging by a thread. The GM fix kit ran about $40 my cost, and came with two shift solenoids, a valvebody filter, and an 'L' bracket to secure the filter in place. My reasoning is that eventually line pressure builds up and eventually forces the filter out of it's resting place between the two solenoids. This might put undue pressure on the solenoids causing premature failure.

What a relief! The procedure was straghtforward and easy, as long as you take your time and are meticulous about disassembling the valve body. I had to triple check the locations of the four check balls that were revealed after removing the top half of the valvebody. The GM TSB 77-71-73, released on 01 Jan 80, A/T - Revised Serviceability of 1-2/2-3 Shift Solenoids .

Anyways, thanks for everybody's input. When I get back to the shop, I'll have to include the GM P/N for the kit for everybody.

Bert

 

[R&D Guy]

Here is that part number and related info:

Bulletin No.: 77-71-73

A/T - Revised Serviceability of 1-2/2-3 Shift Solenoids

Date: January, 1998

INFORMATION

Subject:
Service Availability of 1-2 and 2-3 Shift Solenoids

Models:
1993 Cadillac Allante
1993-98 Cadillac Eldorado, Seville
1994-98 Cadillac Concours
1996-98 Cadillac DeVille
1997-98 Cadillac d'Elegance
1995-98 Oldsmobile Aurora
with HYDRA-MATIC 4T80-E Transaxle (RPO MH1) and with 4.0L, 4.6L Engine (VINs C, Y, 9 - RPOs L47, LD8, L37)


During the 1996 Model Year, transaxle Julian date 047, a new 1-2, 2-3 shift solenoid assembly, and a pressure control solenoid valve fluid filter retainer, were implemented on the 4T80-E transaxle.

All transaxles with a Julian date prior to 1996, 047 must be serviced with a service kit - 1-2/2-3 shift solenoid valves, which is available at GMSPO. This kit, P/N 24211355, contains the 1-2, 2-3 shift solenoid valves, the pressure control solenoid valve filter, the pressure control solenoid valve fluid filter retainer and the bolt to hold the retainer to the lower control valve body. All components in this kit must be used when servicing these transaxles.

1996 transaxles with a Julian date after 047, and 1997 through 1998 transaxles, should be serviced with individual components.


Sorry for the typo in the previous post - the release date was Jan of 1998 not 1980 - lol!

 

[the Sandman]

Hey Bert - great work and a great bit of technical information for the database.

Thanks.

 

[sparkling3usus]

I'm having the same prob with my 1994 seville. I purchased the kit, can you tell me what the proceedures where to put it in?

 

[Ranger]

I have not done this so I am only speaking from what I have read and is not very detailed but I know you must remove the pan, then the valve body. Once the valve body is removed it must be split. You must be very carfull at this point because there are about 9 check balls in there that can drop out. They must be replaced in the same positions. I unsderstand it "is not difficult but is very messy". I have heard 3-4 hrs. I think someone on caddyinfo.com had even posted a step by step and a diagram of the valve body with the check ball locations. It would be good to have if you don't have a manual.

 

[jjbuckley]

Sparkling3usus

Here is the procedures I used.

a) the job is a mess, be prepared.
b) drop the pan, and careful removing the tranny gasket, it is re-usable. Once you clean the pan, you can reset it with gasket sealer.
c) disconnect the solenoid electrical connectors and the mechanical linkage. The linkage has a metal clip you lift and slide.
d) remove the valve body screws, and drop the valve body.
e) place the valve body where you can afford a mess, it will continually leak. Best thing is to set it on cardboard on a bench. There is a valve spool that can be removed as well, careful it can slip out, you don't want to damage it.
f) remove the two clips holding the solenoids, careful they are spring-loaded and will fly
g) remove the screws holding the "large" portion of the valve body split, this is where the solenoids are incased. Remember the screw locations, there are about four different screw lengths
h) CAREFULLY remove split, there are 4 steel check balls loose inside the split (about 1/4" diameter, they will fly, as well)
i) inspect spacer plate, if the black coating is not chipping off you can re-use it, otherwise plan on spending another $ 70 at the dealership parts house. If you replace it you will have to remove the "smaller" split, as well. It also has three check balls.
j) replace the solenoids
k) now comes the fun,....you will note three holes in the spacer plate where three of the check balls reside, seat them there (appr. 3/16" diameter with a smaller relief hole next to it, as I remember). The fourth check ball will need to be inserted in a spherically-cast cavity which is near one the solenoids. You can set it with grease, I re-assembled successfully without using grease.
l) re-assemble valve body, carefully and equally torque.
m) you will note a square black plastic item near one of the solenoids, on the end. Replace this plastic filter with the new filter in the solenoid kit. The kit will also come with an L-shaped bracket that is to be used to "capture" this filter and keep it from backing out. The kit also comes with a slightly longer screw used to mount the bracket to the valve body (discard the old screw).
m) re-assemble valve body to transmission, hook up linkage and electrical connectors
n) replace both tranny filters
o) replenish fluid
p) reset codes

Do you have manual, it will help show you where everything is located, If not I have some diagrams I can post.

John

 

[BeelzeBob]

While you have the trans pan off take the time when you are finished changing the solenoids to remove the "hidden" drain plug for the trans side cover. It is over towards the left side of the car/trans and within the area normally covered by the bottom pan. You will drain about 5 more quarts of old fluid out of the trans that is stored in the side cover for a more complete change of trans fluid while you are at it.

 

[sparkling3usus]

Thanx guys the directions and all your suggestions were great. It is all fixed and that was the problem with my tranny. It was really an easy job. I've never worked on cars before and I didn't have any problems at all. Maybe dropping a couple bolts into the tranny fluid and having to fish them out but other than that it went great. It did help that I was working in my dads pit and had easy access.

thanx again
Sparkling

 

[sparkling3usus]

help!!! Everything was fine until today. I don't have 3rd gear again and po29 is comin up again. What could I have done wrong?

 

[alfonso]

Will you please seen me the diagrams that you mention with the step by step procedures for the installment of the (A-B) shift solenoid kit to [email protected]. Many Thanks.

 

[craigy]

Since we are on the topic of transmissions, my 1992 Seville when cruising along sometimes feels like the transmission has hiccups. Or when I go to pass the trani reallys bucks like its trying to change gears. If I put my foot into the gas to downshift it does and smooths out. There are no codes coming up and most of the time everything is fine. It shifts well under acceleration as well.
Any ideas?
Craig

 

[Ranger]

Since we are on the topic of transmissions, my 1992 Seville when cruising along sometimes feels like the transmission has hiccups. Or when I go to pass the trani reallys bucks like its trying to change gears. If I put my foot into the gas to downshift it does and smooths out. There are no codes coming up and most of the time everything is fine. It shifts well under acceleration as well.
Any ideas?
Craig

Sounds like a misfire. I just went through the same thing. turned out to be plug wires.

 

[craigy]

I was thinking a little bit about the misfire issue but the wires are only a couple of months old bought at UAP. Would not misfiring wires show their bad side at idle as well and also in the middle rpm range?

Craig

 

[91TexasSeville]

craigy

...If you are posting about the solenoid pigtail wires, the answer is maybe. The only way to tell for sure is through your diagnostic panel. You need to know the range (from factory reference manual) then select the appropriate test and watch for a change. You should be able to run the diagnostic in motion as well, but be sure to do it in a non-congested traffic area and preferably with a driver so you can focus on the diagnostic.

 

[Ranger]

I was thinking a little bit about the misfire issue but the wires are only a couple of months old bought at UAP. Would not misfiring wires show their bad side at idle as well and also in the middle rpm range?

Craig

Mine didn't. Idled perfectly and cruised perfectly. Also no problem at WOT, but missed badly under light throttle conditions. Particularly when the torque converter was locked up.

 

[john.ebbs]

craigy
ive run into this problem before it turned out to be the t.p.s. the car only had the problem in cruise range on the interstate.it left no codes because the tps onlh had a bad spot in that position i found it with an elcheapo analog multimeter. pin the tps and see if it sweeps smoothly from .7 to 4.8 approximate specs.if the needle dips back anywhere during the sweep that could be the point where your tcc is getting the wrong info from computer ,locking and unlocking the torque converter becomes a problem at that range on the tps. that might account for the bucking your car is doing