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'14 CTS 2.0 Luxury AWD, 2017 XT5 AWD
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Discussion Starter #1
I never thought in my lifetime that I would see Toyota go to #1 in the world and then right to the doghouse in the same year! Now American cars are the top rated in quality, including Cadillac.

Oh happy days and goodbye to all the foreign crap and bs about their quality.:D
 

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2009 Cts4 Raven Black/Black
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The American government owns part of GM. They have a vested interest ensuring the Detroit 3 succeed. Every Automotive manufacturer has recalls. Ford recalled 15 MILLION vehicles for a recall June '08-'09. That was in the news too. Ford Explorers exploding tires. Crown Victorias gas tanks. Pintos gas tanks....etc etc.. That is why it is called a "recall". So the manufacturer can have the vehicle fixed at no costs to the owners. God forbid we have a recall on our CTS..however it could happen. Yes Toyota is taking a big hit right now, but is it because they have NEVER had to do a massive recall before? Toyota was always was known for quality. This is a safety issue that needs to be corrected immediately. Do you honestly think that the Detroit 3 would STOP production to fix this kind of recall...hell no. Keep producing, we'll fix 'em afterwards. Toyota was told to fix the problem by the U.S. government. They went one step further and stopped production so the escalating issues gets dealt with right from the factory floor. JMO.
 

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2019 CTS
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They stopped production because the Japanese government told them to. They have also expanded the recall to other cars(Japanese built) No doubt about it, they are in a world of hurt right now, but there is no reason to expet that they won't bounce back. If nothing else this is a great opportunity to buy up their stock at bargin basement prices.
 

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2014 SRX Premium w/20" chrome
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I think Toyota's approach to all their problems is hurting them more than the faulty vehicles. Folks are simply afraid to drive them, and don't have much faith in how Toyota is handling this, especially with their so called reasoning and delays as to the cause(s) and fix.

This is a huge hurdle and set back for Toyota, but I do believe they will recover. I also believe all the other auto manufacturers are looking at this as a wake-up call.
 

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2018 CTS 3.6 Premium Luxury
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It is my experience with Japanese cars that the manuafacturer will never accept responsibility for any defect (safety or quality) unless they are forced to do so. I bought two identically-equipped 2003 Infiniti G35s on the same day (two different colors). About a year later, the headlight lenses on one of them started to cloud up. Eventually it got to the point where the headlights were not projecting the amount of light one would expect -- the clouding caused the light to diffuse terribly. I went to the dealer, and they said "not our problem." I then went to Infiniti USA and they told me that it was my fault due to chemicals at the car wash. Now neither car ever been to a car wash -- both were only hand washed using the same products. It would seem that the lenses on the car that clouded up had a material defect that was both estetic (the lenses looked like "you know what") and a safety problem (the headlights didn't project light as well as they should). But Infiniti USA continued to maintain it was my fault. I sold the car with the clouded lenses, and still have the other, but rest assured, we will only by America company-made cars again. I've owned 10 GM cars, and never had an issue like this -- they were always responsive to any problems that occured.

Concerning the comment from Moose13, IMHO you're way off base. My own experience with safety recalls that were much less critical than the current multiple and severe Toyota problems is that GM took aggressive recall actions without being prompted to the extent that was necessary for Toyota. Toyota has known about the gas peddle problem for years -- and didn't do anything about it until forced by two Governments. Unfortunately we have not heard the last of this issue -- unfortunate because many Toyota owners have no choice but to drive their suspect vehicles.
 

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As far as I'm concerned, all the Japanese automobile manufacturers are in trouble. Ever since I noticed an obvious reduction of quality in Lexus vehicles, I began paying close attention. If you research my past posts, you may get the idea I was more of a Lexus enthusiast than Cadillac. While that was never the case, I highly admired Lexus vehicles. So what I'm saying here isn't coming from somebody who doesn't like Japanese automobiles.

The people in Japan are becoming just like everyone else. Before, they were extremely concerned with the quality of their work. In many cases (especially at Lexus) when a vehicle failed for one reason or another, the people responsible for it (those associated with the work done that failed) were notified - and somewhat shamed. They took a lot of pride in the work they did - unlike factory workers in other countries. There were no 3 hour beer brakes at the local bar.

Nowadays, too many Japanese factory workers are daydreaming about the Sony Playstation, Facebook and whatever else we're all playing around with over here. As far as I'm concerned, it is unlikely that we'll EVER see the kind of quality that Toyota was known for years ago. Ever - anywhere. Japan was the last of it. Everyone else punches a clock, goes home and forgets about everything until the next day. Most people don't care anymore. All they care about is doing the minimum required to receive their paycheck.

Otherwise.. Every owner/driver of one of the Toyota vehicles having acceleration issues needs to learn how to do ONE of TWO things. Put the car in neutral or turn the car off if sudden acceleration occurs.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Mark my words, the acceleration problem is not the pedal. It is caused by cheap Chinese electrical connectors. Very exspensive to go in and replace. So they go the cheap route. When all the cars are fixed and the problem is still there, then the only option will be some very exspensive repairs. The pedal fix is like airport security, it's all theater to make it look like we are doing something. It does not fix the problem.:tisk:
 

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2008 CTS 3.6L DI RWD, GMPP new engine 11/2013
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There's no excuse, but it can happen to any automaker. Toyota bashers, get a clue...

General Motors, with US Govt complicity, has a long history of denial and secrecy in matters of vehicle safety defects. One glaring example is 9,000,000 C/K pickup trucks with fuel tanks mounted outside the vehicles' protective frames that made them prone to explode in crashes; more than 1800 people killed, and never a recall:


http://www.autosafety.org/gm-paid-495-million-suits

... "Federal regulators, in exchange for a [illusory] $51-million payment from GM earmarked for safety programs, dropped an investigation in 1994 that could have led to a recall of millions of C/K trucks. The failure to mount a recall followed hundreds of deaths in C/K pickup accidents and angered auto safety groups. They had long contended that, from a fire-risk standpoint, the C/K pickup was the most dangerous vehicle ever sold." ...

... [as of 2000] "There have been 297 settlements of lawsuits and claims involving 1973-87 C/K pickup trucks which resulted in 331 individual settlement agreements. The total amount paid in settlement to date is $495,076,104. This yields an average of $1,495,698 per individual settlement, or $1,666,923 per lawsuit/claim." ...

... "In court, GM had argued that releasing the data about the C/K pickup settlements would violate confidential agreements struck with the plaintiffs; make it more difficult to reach settlements in the future because plaintiffs would refuse to accept less; and harm GM's reputation." ...


http://www.autosafety.org/history-gm-side-saddle-gas-tank-defect

History of the GM Side Saddle Gas Tank Defect

"The side saddle fuel tank design installed in over 10 million trucks - all 1973-87 General Motors full-size pickups and cab-chassis trucks (pickups without beds) and some 1988-91 dual cab or RV chassis - is the worst auto crash fire defect in the history of the U.S. Department of Transportation. Based on data from the Fatality Analysis Reporting System, over 1,800 people were killed in fire crashes involving these trucks from 1973 through 2000. This is more than twenty times as many fatalities as in the infamous Ford Pinto. Despite a voluntary recall request from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in April 1993 and an initial defect determination by Transportation Secretary Federico Pena in October 1994, GM stubbornly refused to initiate a recall."
 

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928S, that was over 20 years ago. Your example just shows how stupid the management at Toyota is, seeing as how they had an example of how not to handle a recall and failed to learn from it.

Toyota: didn't learn from reading, didn't learn from the mistakes of others, they just had to go pee on the electric fence for themselves. :p
 

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I'm glad to see this happen to Toyota because they are so f***ing arrogant. GM is putting out products that are every bit as good as the Toyotas (including the Lexus), but the Japanese apologists keep insisting that Toyota cars are at the pinnacle of car engineering and manufacture. BS!!!

Toyota has known about these unintended acceleration problems for years and swept them under the rug in the best Japanese tradition.

If Toyota has such good design talent, how come they build cars with floor mats that can move under the gas pedal? GM cars have had mats fastened to the floor at least since 1997 (my C5 Vette had them). Besides, neither the mats nor the gas pedal assemblies are at the root of the problem.

I am convinced they have a hardware or software problem in their "fly by wire" arrangement to operate the throttle. NHTSA has an open investigation on this subject and I predict more troubles are in store for Toyota.

Maybe people in the US will wake up to the fact that they have been bamboozled by the Toyota quality myth and send them back to Tokyo with their tails between their legs.

Frank Gonzalez
 

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2009 Cts4 Raven Black/Black
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It is my experience with Japanese cars that the manuafacturer will never accept responsibility for any defect (safety or quality) unless they are forced to do so. I bought two identically-equipped 2003 Infiniti G35s on the same day (two different colors). About a year later, the headlight lenses on one of them started to cloud up. Eventually it got to the point where the headlights were not projecting the amount of light one would expect -- the clouding caused the light to diffuse terribly. I went to the dealer, and they said "not our problem." I then went to Infiniti USA and they told me that it was my fault due to chemicals at the car wash. Now neither car ever been to a car wash -- both were only hand washed using the same products. It would seem that the lenses on the car that clouded up had a material defect that was both estetic (the lenses looked like "you know what") and a safety problem (the headlights didn't project light as well as they should). But Infiniti USA continued to maintain it was my fault. I sold the car with the clouded lenses, and still have the other, but rest assured, we will only by America company-made cars again. I've owned 10 GM cars, and never had an issue like this -- they were always responsive to any problems that occured.

Concerning the comment from Moose13, IMHO you're way off base. My own experience with safety recalls that were much less critical than the current multiple and severe Toyota problems is that GM took aggressive recall actions without being prompted to the extent that was necessary for Toyota. Toyota has known about the gas peddle problem for years -- and didn't do anything about it until forced by two Governments. Unfortunately we have not heard the last of this issue -- unfortunate because many Toyota owners have no choice but to drive their suspect vehicles.
PJL..you did let my opinion sink in...the US government owns part of GM. Therefore they will quietly do whatever possible to create fear mongering to help GM and the Detroit 3 establish themselves as a safe and reliable environment in which Toyota is polluting at this time. Yes, I read your comments and you are entitled to your opinion. However, that was my opinion and you were judging me as being way off base. I build Toyotas for a living. I see what goes into the production of these vehicles. Automotive manufacturers are only as good as the quality from the suppliers who provide and build the sub-assembly parts. GMC pickup trucks a few years back wouls EXPLODE if they were hit on their side. People were killed also in this recall. However, you chose not to bring this to your column. Let me reiterate for you. Recalls happen. Toyota just happens to be front page news because they never have been before.. Just like Nascar..everybody booed Toyota when they joined. Once all the rednecks found out that Toyota was in fact one of the ONLY USA (georgetown kentucky)built, out of Ford, Chevrolet Dodge...they took a step backwards. I love this forum. I am a very proud owner of what we all believe is a true gem of a product or else we would not have bought it. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. Same as mine. Enjoy your beautiful Cadillac Cts. I am sure you love it and admire it as much as evryone on this site does. Thanks and have a great day Eh...
 

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PJL..you did let my opinion sink in...the US government owns part of GM. Therefore they will quietly do whatever possible to create fear mongering to help GM and the Detroit 3 establish themselves as a safe and reliable environment in which Toyota is polluting at this time. Yes, I read your comments and you are entitled to your opinion. However, that was my opinion and you were judging me as being way off base. I build Toyotas for a living. I see what goes into the production of these vehicles. Automotive manufacturers are only as good as the quality from the suppliers who provide and build the sub-assembly parts. GMC pickup trucks a few years back wouls EXPLODE if they were hit on their side. People were killed also in this recall. However, you chose not to bring this to your column. Let me reiterate for you. Recalls happen. Toyota just happens to be front page news because they never have been before.. Just like Nascar..everybody booed Toyota when they joined. Once all the rednecks found out that Toyota was in fact one of the ONLY USA (georgetown kentucky)built, out of Ford, Chevrolet Dodge...they took a step backwards. I love this forum. I am a very proud owner of what we all believe is a true gem of a product or else we would not have bought it. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. Same as mine. Enjoy your beautiful Cadillac Cts. I am sure you love it and admire it as much as evryone on this site does. Thanks and have a great day Eh...
Ah, now I get it -- you work for Toyota. That makes perfect sense that you would have the opinion you have.

By the way, what proof can you offer that "...they (the US Government) will quietly do whatever possible to create fear mongering to help GM and the Detroit 3 establish themselves as a safe and reliable environment in which Toyota is polluting at this time."? I would be very interested in seeing this! I see alot of press and consumer groups reporting on the recent Toyota issues, and I personally don't see it as "fear mongering" by the US Government. But perhaps I've missed something that you can share with the forum.

Lastly, I do respect your right to your opinion. I just don't agree with it, which is my opinion, and as you state, I am entitled to it also. Please have a great day too.
 

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Ah, now I get it -- you work for Toyota. That makes perfect sense that you would have the opinion you have.

By the way, what proof can you offer that "...they (the US Government) will quietly do whatever possible to create fear mongering to help GM and the Detroit 3 establish themselves as a safe and reliable environment in which Toyota is polluting at this time."? I would be very interested in seeing this! I see alot of press and consumer groups reporting on the recent Toyota issues, and I personally don't see it as "fear mongering" by the US Government. But perhaps I've missed something that you can share with the forum.

Lastly, I do respect your right to your opinion. I just don't agree with it, which is my opinion, and as you state, I am entitled to it also. Please have a great day too.
PJl...What did the US Government individual (not sure of his name or status..maybe a senator) say to the general public the other day on National TV about "Don't drive your toyota..park it.. (that's fear) if that was a Detroit 3 product, it would be swept under the rug.. and why didn't GM have a recall on all those Chevrolet pickups that would explode if you hit them on their side?? It doesn't matter where I work. Oh by the way, my wife works for GM in Canada. She builds GM vehicles too.. any problem or concerns with that... perfect sense. :thepan:
 

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I see we have some sheeple on here too.
:lol:

Moose, you have your opinion, that's cool, you are entitled to it, although you seem a bit fuzzy on the facts.

Based on what I read you are saying that Toyota has never had a recall until this gas pedal thing?
While I can't verify one way or another, they have several million vehicles currently affected by recalls. While some people might use this as a reason to tear Toyota down I certainly wouldn't. Toyota is a good car company and they make some fine products. From time to time schmidt happens. GM, Ford, Chrysler, and every car company under the sun have made things they thought were great ideas and through testing and production they have realized they made mistakes and people died for it.
Nobody is claiming (at least I am not) that any car company is blameless, but you can't sit here and excuse Toyota for getting a big head and overlooking things that it is clear they knew about and swept under the rug by paying out millions in private settlements to avoid a media mess.
They wanted to be number 1 and they started taking shortcuts, from my perspective. Does that mean people should freak out, sell their cars and buy something else? No. It means Toyota should own up to their mistakes, fix it, and try harder. I suspect they will do just that.

I work for a GM franchise and I support them probably more than most people, and I can tell you over the years I have seen them do some pretty stuipd stuff.
The "exploding gas tank" thing wasn't an instant explosion like the Pintos were, but it certainly could happen and GM took care of it, apparently not to your satisfaction but it seems unfair to compare apples to oranges and if you go back in the past you could attack any car company you want by doing something that lame.

The US Goverment may have an interest in GM, but there is a timeline issue with your complaint. Most of GM's goof ups happened way before the government got involved.
It isn't the government that is screaming about Toyota, it is the general population and the press. Until last week Toyota's "spotless reputation" (which was generated by the media in the first place) and now the media seems to have switched sides. For that you can go talk to them and ask them why. The only part of this that I enjoy is seeing the press take a car company they have been bowing down to for a couple of decades now and shining a light on them, not to make them look like criminals in my book, but to make them look like what they are, a car company that can make a mistake, analyze it, and fix it.

I am not trying to be rude, just respectfully disagreeing with some of the things you posted.
I appreciate your honesty and your respect for other people's opinions. Thanks in advance for offering me the same courtesy.


I have seen GM do stop deliveries and stop production recalls on lots of cars.
It happens quite often in fact, but not in such quite massive numbers.
I can recall probably 5 or 6 a year for the past few years. No one is immune to NHTSA or DOT regulations.
My wife had a pickup with an "exploding gas tank", and guess what, it never exploded. In fact if you want I can tell you where it is parked right now and you can go look at it.
 

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PJl...What did the US Government individual (not sure of his name or status..maybe a senator) say to the general public the other day on National TV...
Oh, that's the Obama-UAW Administration's U.S. Secretary of Transportation
Ray H. LaHood, another product of Chicago-Illinois politics who, like his boss,
has never held a real job in the private sector:

 

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The Toyota website actually has good information on the recall, including a video which explains the source of the problem and the "fix".
I think it covers a couple of the other "suspect" recalls too, the carpet thing and maybe a blurb about the brake issue that seems to be cropping up.
From what I have read that is more of a cruise control issue but maybe I am mixing up a couple of things I heard. It does seem a bit panic stricken and overblown.
I have repaired literally thousands of vehicles that were "recalled" for potential safety problems without such press generated hysteria.
 

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It's important to note, drunk drivers and failure to use seatbelts cause more deaths annually than any manufacturer recall.
 
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