[JCBCTS]

Thanks Joseph...I REALLY like that suggestion of removing the sensors and actuators (wish I had caught that from your earlier post!). I believe that can be done with the valve covers still on (I put everything back together already). I will have to move the PS reservoir out of the way but that is no big feat.

I am going to do that next for sure and see if my problem moves to the other bank. I think the plugs were all unique in size so don't think I could mix them up and they would not reach the other side so no chance of that either.

As for messing with the camshafts, I am already at/past my comfort zone in digging into engines. All of the rockers, springs, holders, etc. are pretty intimidating. I would be afraid I could not get it put back properly. Besides it would be like me in the grocery store knocking on a watermelon. Not sure I would recognize a good one from a bad one so what the hell am I doing it for?

 

[JCBCTS]

UPDATE - I switched sides/banks on all of the cam solenoids and the position sensors. I also replaced the crank sensor. Car is throwing the same codes still on Bank 2 P00018, P00019. I also bought a cheap compression tester from Harbor Freight. The readings on Bank 1 were about 135PSI. The readings on the Bank 2 where I am getting the errors were about 100 in all 3 cylinders.

So there is really no question now as to tearing it back down and re-installing the chains. Do the compression readings tell me anything about how close the timing is? Would I be able to deduce that I am close (maybe 1 tooth on the crank in relation to the bank 2 cams? Would it be known which direction it might be off given 35PSI difference to the bank 1 cylinders? Has to be the intake valve closing just slightly late right?

 

[Joseph Upson]

As long as the timing marks on the sprockets were correct at install, both cams should be off by the same amount. the best way I know for sure of how to confirm the error would be to check at what degree relative to TDC the intake valve begins to open for both banks, which for the LLT is 14 deg after TDC. The LFX has a longer duration intake camshaft so I'm not sure if that remains the same for it.

Still, even if you could determine one tooth forward, or backward, you need the timing chain retension tool EN-48313 in place while you first mark and then unbolt the actuators for movement in order to avoid tearing it back down.

What ever path you take, make sure you don't make the situation worse. Ding a valve and the head comes off.

 

[JCBCTS]

So the CAM sprockets/phasers will come off without removing the timing cover assuming the chain is held by the special tool?

 

[Joseph Upson]

So the CAM sprockets/phasers will come off without removing the timing cover assuming the chain is held by the special tool?

Yes, using the tool sourced by that part number. It's not cheap though.

 

[JCBCTS]

Ouch! They are proud of that tool. I'm guessing my local Auto Parts store may not have that one in stock to loan out.

 

[JCBCTS]

UPDATE - Purchased the timing chain retention tool from Summit Racing. Pulled the bank 2 cam cover (side which I was receiving the codes and had low compression). Placed the chain tool in place and removed the bolt holding the intake cam sprocket/phaser. Once removed, I advanced the timing one tooth each on the intake and exhaust cam. Replaced the bolt and voila - I went from low compression (100psi) to good compression (150psi). Feeling pretty good about the result, I put everything back together and started it up. Idle was now smooth vs prior being moderately rough (just rough enough to feel it in the cabin). Feeling great at this point, idled it for about 15 minutes and then went on a 15 minute ride - power was obviously much better, and no lights. Went to bed flying high thinking I solved the issue, but DAMN if the light comes back on the next day on the way to church (wasn't a very pleasant service for me!)

Oh well, thanks for all the tips and advice! I will probably just drive it like this for a while and see if I feel like tearing it all apart again and re-attempting the timing when inspection time starts creeping up next April!

 

[Long]

I was hoping for a more positive update---
Man, you've put alot of time and effort into a daunting task.
Still have my fingers crossed for you ??

 

[JCBCTS]

Thanks Long. Yep I am stepping away from it for a while. Will see how I feel about it later on. I'll probably end up tearing it down one more time just out of sheer curiosity on where all the marks line up. For now I'm just going to drive and pretend I can't see the CEL. Thats one good thing about the 2nd gen CTS - that light is so deep in the cluster it's easy to ignore and your passengers are none the wiser!

 

[Joseph Upson]

UPDATE - Purchased the timing chain retention tool from Summit Racing. Pulled the bank 2 cam cover (side which I was receiving the codes and had low compression). Placed the chain tool in place and removed the bolt holding the intake cam sprocket/phaser. Once removed, I advanced the timing one tooth each on the intake and exhaust cam. Replaced the bolt and voila - I went from low compression (100psi) to good compression (150psi). Feeling pretty good about the result, I put everything back together and started it up. Idle was now smooth vs prior being moderately rough (just rough enough to feel it in the cabin). Feeling great at this point, idled it for about 15 minutes and then went on a 15 minute ride - power was obviously much better, and no lights. Went to bed flying high thinking I solved the issue, but DAMN if the light comes back on the next day on the way to church (wasn't a very pleasant service for me!)

Oh well, thanks for all the tips and advice! I will probably just drive it like this for a while and see if I feel like tearing it all apart again and re-attempting the timing when inspection time starts creeping up next April!

I regret having told you about that tool without stressing that it is an alternative to removing the timing cover after you've confirmed that the cams are off and in which direction.

Unfortunately, the increase in cylinder pressure upon advancing the cams is sort of a typical trend up to a point in camshaft positioning, especially here since intake timing is already relatively late in the 3.6L.

You've done a lot of work up to this point and I'd hate for you to encounter a more serious problem along the way. I just broke down an LLT core motor and removing the heads was a lot of work, even with a 20" long breaker bar ratchet. My recommendation would be not to drive it, but if you have to, do so conservatively, as timing chain wear moves the intake valve max advance range further from TDC (top dead center) where on one bank you have moved it closer.

I certainly understand needing to take a break.

 

[JCBCTS]

Joseph, no regrets. I studied pictures of my cam lobe position from top dead center and the only way they could have been off is behind. Compression before I made this small, 1-tooth adjustment was definitely too low at 100psi. The spec is no less than 140. The one-tooth adjustment brought it to 150 which is probably pretty close to ideal. The car runs and drives much better. I really appreciate your knowledge and did not take it as advice, just factual info ( you even warned me of dangers of tinkering with it)!

I am an accountant by trade who knew ZILCH about cars 10 years ago. Started doing all the maintenance and repairs myself and REALLY enjoy doing it and the satisfaction I get out of repairing issues myself. I have a "fleet" of 4 hoopties all more than 10 years old and between 100k and 210k miles. I've spent next to nothing in shops on these cars since I maintain them and fix everything I can myself.

This was by far the most complicated thing I ever attempted. I'm lucky enough to be in good enough financial shape that I could afford to screw it up. Besides a mechanically sound 08 CTS Base with a MT and 137k on the clock is worth 3-4k maybe. The timing chain job would have been 2k so what did I have to lose? Now if I can never get the light off it may be worth 1000-1500.

 

[Long]

A good outlook to have, JCB--
You are definitely a "glass half full" kinda guy.

 

[HurstGN]

I applaud you JCB for having the guts to take on this repair. I personally don't have the stomach for this level of work. Hoping you do get it sorted and run another 100K trouble-free miles.

 

[JCBCTS]

Thanks - might be a situation where I had more guts than brains! In any event, I will post the ultimate outcome whatever/whenever it comes to be.

 

[Joseph Upson]

Joseph, no regrets. I studied pictures of my cam lobe position from top dead center and the only way they could have been off is behind. Compression before I made this small, 1-tooth adjustment was definitely too low at 100psi. The spec is no less than 140. The one-tooth adjustment brought it to 150 which is probably pretty close to ideal. The car runs and drives much better. I really appreciate your knowledge and did not take it as advice, just factual info ( you even warned me of dangers of tinkering with it)!

I am an accountant by trade who knew ZILCH about cars 10 years ago. Started doing all the maintenance and repairs myself and REALLY enjoy doing it and the satisfaction I get out of repairing issues myself. I have a "fleet" of 4 hoopties all more than 10 years old and between 100k and 210k miles. I've spent next to nothing in shops on these cars since I maintain them and fix everything I can myself.

This was by far the most complicated thing I ever attempted. I'm lucky enough to be in good enough financial shape that I could afford to screw it up. Besides a mechanically sound 08 CTS Base with a MT and 137k on the clock is worth 3-4k maybe. The timing chain job would have been 2k so what did I have to lose? Now if I can never get the light off it may be worth 1000-1500.

Fair enough, the first time around is rewarding, but if there's a problem immediately following, it becomes "WORK" and that can be discouraging. I just don't want anyone to have a bad outcome that I could have helped them avoid.

 

[lilblkshp1980]

any ultimate update? i know its old but am going thru similar issue

 

[Long]

any ultimate update? i know its old but am going thru similar issue

So Long Friends / VROOM Review / ODESSA Cylinder Head Review

Received my 2018 Infiniti Q50 3.0t AWD from VROOM and initially very happy with it! It should be a worthy replacement for my 2008 CTS, which I will remember VERY FONDLY as my last and BEST Manual Transmission car (the Q will be my 1st automatic in 30 plus years). The CTS served me VERY well...

www.cadillacforums.com

 

[streetstock44s]

any ultimate update? i know its old but am going thru similar issue

Me too actually dame issue anyone have any Intel and my marks were dead on as well

 

[Lifespeed]

Me too actually dame issue anyone have any Intel and my marks were dead on as well

Perhaps you can be more specific? Car model, year, mileage, maintenance history, codes, what was done.

 

[streetstock44s]

2011 srx 3.0L new chains vvt phasers guides tensioner sprockets oil pump vvt solenoids and cam sensors