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1965 Sedan, 1969 convertible, 71 Fleetwood, 74 Coupe
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77 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The engine has started making a rather loud ticking noise, so after reading the manual and watching videos on Youtube i decided to have a look. I started with the right hand bank first, Well, im no mechanic but even i know its not supposed to look like that under the rocker covers. So i took out the rockers and gave them a good soaking and clean, cleaned out as much gunk as possible. It is so much quieter now. I am going to a show this weekend so next week i will have a look at the left hand side, thats where the ticking noise is coming from.
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1980 FBC
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980 Posts
That's the worst looking Cadillac engine innards I've ever seen.

Someone abused the heck out of it.

Cleaning can make it worse because the junk lands up elsewhere.

Time for a rebuild.

I's expect about 16 ticks and 7 or 8 knocks.

Yuck.
 

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1970 Coupe De Ville//Cessna 172
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551 Posts
Mine was like that. Had to end up rebuilding it.
When you do the other bank, do your best to get the gunk out without it going down into the engine.
I would also change the oil today, now. Drive it a bit and do the same. You need to be concerned about all that gunk getting into the oil system. Does your oil get black quickly?
Jeff
 

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1965 Sedan, 1969 convertible, 71 Fleetwood, 74 Coupe
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77 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I did a oil change last night using cheap oil, after i do the left bank i will change the filter and another oil change using some good quality stuff.
Hopefully i got all the gunge out using a spoon.
 
C

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I agree with everyone else; that engine had a long period without an oil change. However, as long as you didn't knock any of that stuff loose and into the engine and reinstalled the rockers, pedestals, retainers and pushrods in the exact order you removed them, I don't think you caused any further harm. I had a '72 Sedan deVille in high school with rockers that looked similar condition wise, and when I removed them for cleaning, I didn't reinstall them in the order which I removed them. That was a big mistake, and shortly after I my error I had to install a different engine.

In the Cadillac Serviceman publication, page 23, or the June, 1970 issue, there is an article regarding noisy rockers. They suggest sliding the sheet metal retainer (the thin metal part that is held down under the rocker pedestals) fore or aft to provide more pressure on the rocker producing the noise. If that doesn't work, they recommend removing the rockers and retainer and slightly bending the retainer tabs inward to apply a little more pressure on the rockers to keep them from "walking" on the pedestals, and if that doesn't get rid of the sound, they recommend replacing the retainer. I haven't tried this, but occasionally my '70 makes a very slight rocker tap, so I might give it a shot eventually.
 

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1985 Seville
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330 Posts
I had a 79 firebird and used pennzoil changed it every 3000 and when i took my valve cover off at 80000 my rockers looked like that. That's just the quality of oil back then.

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That's a good example of why most engines of that period made a 100k and that's all she wrote.

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IMO that's why jap cars got such a reputation for reliability. They came along at a later period when the oil was more refined and had better additives to keep the engine clean.
 

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1973 Cadillac Hearse, 2002 Cadillac DHS
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288 Posts
I can confirm CDV478's post...I've seen the spring clips that hold the rocker arms onto the pivot blocks allow the rockers to walk slightly off the ends of the pivot blocks and make noise. I saw an ancient TSB floating around somewhere about this. The fix was to remove the offending rocker/pivot block assy and adjust the spring clip by bending the ends inward.

An older higher mileage engine may have worn rocker arms. The holes in the arms become egg shaped and the associated pivot blocks wear out. The fix is to install new rocker arms, pivot blocks and spring clips. If you replace the rockers the pivot blocks should also be replaced as a matched set. Rocker arms shouldn't feel sloppy in relation to the pivot blocks
 

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1965 Sedan, 1969 convertible, 71 Fleetwood, 74 Coupe
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77 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I have just done the left hand bank, the ticking noise is still there. Its quite loud when the rocker cover is off. I think i will have to go deeper and either clean the lifters or say sod it and replace them. This engine is not the original 1974 engine but a 1972 one, so it could just be worn out.
 

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1968 Sedan Deville
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50 Posts
I agree with everyone else; that engine had a long period without an oil change. However, as long as you didn't knock any of that stuff loose and into the engine and reinstalled the rockers, pedestals, retainers and pushrods in the exact order you removed them, I don't think you caused any further harm. I had a '72 Sedan deVille in high school with rockers that looked similar condition wise, and when I removed them for cleaning, I didn't reinstall them in the order which I removed them. That was a big mistake, and shortly after I my error I had to install a different engine.

In the Cadillac Serviceman publication, page 23, or the June, 1970 issue, there is an article regarding noisy rockers. They suggest sliding the sheet metal retainer (the thin metal part that is held down under the rocker pedestals) fore or aft to provide more pressure on the rocker producing the noise. If that doesn't work, they recommend removing the rockers and retainer and slightly bending the retainer tabs inward to apply a little more pressure on the rockers to keep them from "walking" on the pedestals, and if that doesn't get rid of the sound, they recommend replacing the retainer. I haven't tried this, but occasionally my '70 makes a very slight rocker tap, so I might give it a shot eventually.
Why do pushrods and rockers need to go back in the same order? Not doubting you, I'm just learning about engines and am curious. Thanks
 

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70 Eldorado, 78 and 79 Coupe deVilles, 2008 Subaru STI
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62 Posts
Why do pushrods and rockers need to go back in the same order? Not doubting you, I'm just learning about engines and am curious. Thanks
bdude273,

That's the same question I had when I made my mistake. The rockers and pushrods wear in matched sets. As time goes by, each rocker/pivot/pushrod wear into each other. When two used, mismatched parts are installed together, they have already lost some of their factory tolerance but in different areas so they wear much more quickly, and not long after, the valve train will get much noisier. It doesn't seem like a big deal at first, but the shop manual says to install them in the order they were removed for this reason. When I screwed up my 472 by mismatching rocker sets, it didn't have trouble right away; it took about 500 miles before the engine developed extreme valve clatter and eventually a few valves stopped sealing properly causing several dead misses. I didn't think reinstalling them in the same order was important even though my father told me it was, and I learned the hard way by not listening to him. New rocker and pivot sets do not have this problem because they haven't had the chance to develop unique wear patterns. The engine I damaged had a lot of sludge inside so it was already pretty well worn, but I definitely accelerated wear with my mistake.

BTW, I accidentally posted as CDV478 above; it's an old login I no longer use, and at one time I had forgotten the password. Last night, I temporarily forgot what my current login was after I cleared cookies on my computer and made the post before I realized I was using an old login.
 
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