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1992 Town Car Cartier & 2014 Accord LX MTX
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yah that is sad
 

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1989 Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance|2018 Chevy Colorado Z71
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Wow..... I don't even know what to say....... I honestly feel like crying.... I for one swear to never buy any car not built by GM, Ford, or Chrysler, ever. I really don't know what to say right now..... You can bet I'll be circulating that.....
 

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1992 Cadillac Sedan Deville
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The article reveals the problem faced by most people who buy a foreign made car, should I have a dead reliable car or support the American economy. As I have said in my past posts, I am very disappointed with most new American cars I sit in. Their are no easy answers to this problem, but I think the American Economy will survive better then what is predicted in the article. GM, needs to come out with a good family sedan, and stop making cars that only appeal to Fleet buyers.
 

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1992 STS / 2005 MB G500 / 2003 STS / 2006 XLR-V
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Andrew Angrove said:
When the likes of Packard, Nash, Studebaker, and DeSoto began to disappear 50 years ago...
Funny he includes Packard and Studebaker in there... when it was the big three themselves that put them and others out of business in one way or another to begin with :rolleyes: In a strange way completing their own precipitous circle...

Packard and Studebaker btw who really took no prisoners when it came to making cars that were VASTLY ahead of their time in safety AND technology in a time when no Japanese company could touch them, and the Europeans werent an issue. If we still had that spirit alive today, If GM, Ford and DCX had embraced their rivals as healthy competition rather than stomping them into the ground, who knows... things might be different today.
Andrew Angrove said:
...Foreign brands such as...Mitsubishi have become so popular...
Ok thats just funny...
 

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1992 Town Car Cartier & 2014 Accord LX MTX
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yes, very odd indeed.....maybe theres a new big 3 in town:
-Honda
-Toyota
-Nissan?
 

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:bigroll:

Right. And when the American Auto industry bites the dust, they will have no one to blame but themselves. Why do you think people even bought Honda's in the first place???:thumbsup: It's because America stopped making quality cars. You can only put up with so many K-cars, Cavaliers, Berettas(sp?), Dodge's, etc. before you finally just throw your arms up in frustration.

I guess though, if Americans stopped making cars, then it would put mechanics out of business too:), since Jap cars don't break down...:stirpot:

All kiding aside though, American car makers are coming back. Chrysler's new designs are the best looking in the world, Ford's introduction of the Freestyle, Fusion, and Mustang have rejuvenated(sp?) them, and GM...well...actually GM doesn't have anything going for them - They have no pony car, their trucks are obsolete, their cars are all Wrong Wheel Drive, and the Cadillacs all look the same, with the new Escalade predicted to take a nosedive in sales with its hideous redesign:thumbsup:

Maybe the Saturn AURA can save GM:stirpot:
 

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1992 Town Car Cartier & 2014 Accord LX MTX
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what does (sp?) mean?
 

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'93 Cadillac 60 Special; '03 Lincoln TownCar Limited ED
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THAT, MY FRIENDS, IS A MASTERPIECE OF WRITING! I will print that and make several copies. It needs to be handed to anyone even remotely thinking of buying a car other than GM, Ford and maybe, with a stretch, Chreysler.
It's so true, of exactly what can (and will) take place. You think not? Did you ever think you'd see Mercedes buy Chrysler? Plymouth end? Oldsmobile end? Course not, and the masses would never think the imiginary facts in this article...could become reality, but they most certainly will, if the public continues lapping up every foreign car that comes along. Humans are very short sighted anyway, and given a reason to ignore shortsightness (Asian / German cars are better) is all they need. Most lease for 30 months, the entire time any car is under warrantee i.e. no $$$$ outta pocket. Nothing is really going to go wrong in 30 months, yet, they buy Toyota over Chevy or Ford, because they are sold on quality? Things only gonna have 25,000 miles on it when they dump it! :cookoo:
 

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Nothing is really going to go wrong in 30 months, yet, they buy Toyota over Chevy or Ford, because they are sold on quality? Things only gonna have 25,000 miles on it when they dump it! :cookoo:
Sandy I wish we were all as rich as you are:thumbsup:
The fact is that people nowadays that have a mortage(sp?), 2 kids and a car payment can't afford to buy a new car every 3 years. They want (and need) cars that will last them for like 7-10 years. The cars don't have to be the best looking, or the most fancy either; but they need to be efficient and reliable. And Jap cars are both:thumbsup:

Now, American auto makers are getting better, but they're still a bit behind. The new designs are nice, but most of them still lack some refinement that is needed. Perfect example - the CTS. It's a great comeback car, but I bet the next generation will be EXCELLENT:thumbsup: I mean, judging by how nice the new Buick Lucerne is, I can tell that GM is only getting better with each step they take...

Still, they are doing some questionable things - like a FWD Impala, no pony car in sight, etc...:confused:
 

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1992 Cadillac Sedan Deville
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Yes Sandy, you are right about the fact most people lease their cars, but their are many who don't. People who buy Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are buying them usually because they owned one in the past, its all about their excelent (reliability) track record which the big 3 have lost.

For example, my aunt had a 1990 Toyota Corolla, that thing went 200,000 miles without a problem and she is not the best a maintaining a car. The car finally did die but it wasn't the cars fault. So she goes out to buy another car she won't even look at another brand and buys a 2004 Camry. I know the Camry is new but it has needed no warranty repairs.
 

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1989 Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance|2018 Chevy Colorado Z71
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ben72227 said:
Jap cars don't break down...
Hahahaaha! Yeah ok... Sure thing. My friend's Civic crapped out at 90k and it was stock. My other friend's Mitsubishi bit the dust at 110k, and my cousin's Accord, 89k.... Meanwhile my Fleetwood has close to 130k and runs like it's brand new..... Also my grandma's Accord which is like a year and a half old went in for servicing twice..... My point is all cars break down no matter where they were built. There's no real difference, new parts are new parts. Don't be swayed by rumors, rumors are rarely true. We rely heavily on our automakers for a healhy economy and all we're doing is screwing ourselves in the long run.

ben72227 said:
They have no pony car
GTO? Monte Carlo?
 

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The biggest problem with american auto makers is how many sub divisions they have. GM= Chevrolet, GMC, Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac and Saab. Chrsyler, Dodge, Jeep and Mitsubishi. Ford, Lincoln, Mercury and Mazda. It goes on and on. They used to be distinctive, but now they are just carbon copies with a different badge on them. Now, how many Sable's didn't sell because people bought the Taurus? If GM consisted of Chevrolet as the mainstream and Cadillac as the luxury, I think they would do much better. They could conserve their factories and engineres to making quality cars to compete with the foreign market. Just my .02 cents.
 

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1989 Sedan DeVille is now just a fond memory ....
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ben72227 said:
...Why do you think people even bought Honda's in the first place??? ....
I believe I can answer that one for you Ben. It's because they were cheap, gas stingy and novel. Quality was dismal in the early Japanese imports but customer service was impressively attentive.

The cars were made of thin sheet metal which made them nice and light but also no match for Detroit iron in a collision. Thus, they were considered by many to be potential death traps. There was a lot of plastic in them as well. Things seemed to break on them very easily.

The Honda 600 Coupes and Sedans were among the most popular back then. They were diminutive cars from which most expected a troupe of clowns to emerge where ever they parked. They were gutless little wonders but because they were so small they felt like they handled like go-carts, if fact, there were a lot of go-cart jokes made about them.

But, as I said, they were quite novel and I think that was one of the biggest reasons they sold so well back then. :)
 

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My father told me lots of stories of people he knew that got killed in the early Jap cars.....

his g/f's sister and some friends... the sister and 1 friend died, the driver was badly hurt, but lived... as their ~1979 Honda Civic crossed the double yellow and hit a 1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass head on... well, the driver side corner, catching the bumper.

The guy driving the Cutlass drove the car home.

I don't care how much they saved on gas, it was a freakin death trap that I woudln't get anywhere near.
 

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and while GM was going down in a heap of flames (in the Roger Smith era), Honda was building itself up and ended the 80's with the Accord and the Acura brand:highfive:. In less than 20 years, Honda had become THE asian car company...of course, Toyota came along with Lexus and became the number one...but Honda is still the most reliable...They make some...questionable products (like the Element)...but then again, GM made the Aztek:rolleyes:

Hahahaaha! Yeah ok... Sure thing. My friend's Civic crapped out at 90k and it was stock. My other friend's Mitsubishi bit the dust at 110k, and my cousin's Accord, 89k.... Meanwhile my Fleetwood has close to 130k and runs like it's brand new..... Also my grandma's Accord which is like a year and a half old went in for servicing twice..... My point is all cars break down no matter where they were built. There's no real difference, new parts are new parts. Don't be swayed by rumors, rumors are rarely true. We rely heavily on our automakers for a healhy economy and all we're doing is screwing ourselves in the long run.
I'm not "swayed by rumours." I'm swayed by my own experiences. I had my '89 Accord hatchback for 10 years, with well over 200,000 miles and i NEVER had problems with it. Then I had my '98 Accord until i bought an '05 CR-V. NONE of my Hondas have ever given my problems, and neither has my '99 V6 Camry...Everyone told my my engine was supposed to "sludge up" but guess what? It never did...

All these cars had proper maintainence at regular intervals performed, had the oil changed at the correct intervals, etc. I take care of my vehicles. The Cadillac takes a little EXTRA care:thumbsup: and I've spent more on it than its worth, but I keep it because I love it, like we all do:highfive:

Besides, Mitsubishis are CRAP and they're Chrysler cars (or used to be anyway), so I consider them to be as Japanese as much as I consider Chrysler to be American:thepan:

GTO? Monte Carlo?
Those are MUSCLE cars, and VERY BAD muscle cars at that. THe GTO is a half-assed Australian car (which looks like a Chevy Cavalier:thehand: ) and the Monte is quite possible the worst car ever. I mean, it went from being cool (remember the one Denzel drove in Training Day?) to being a NASCAR look-alike POS...

If GM consisted of Chevrolet as the mainstream and Cadillac as the luxury, I think they would do much better. They could conserve their factories and engineres to making quality cars to compete with the foreign market. Just my .02 cents.
That's a good arguement, but a bit extreme. With the elimination of Oldsmobile, it seems now that every brand makes sense:

Chevy - cheap cars, and the flagship brand
Pontiac - "sporty" cars, but really, its the brand for Women
Saturn - upscale cars bread and butter cars...something to compete with VW...
GMC - Work Trucks
Hummer - Hummers
Cadillac - Flamboyant Luxury
Buick - Conservative Luxury
Saab - GM's bland European brand (They should get rid of this one)
Holden - GM's Australian brand
Opel - GM's German brand
Vauxhall - GM's UK brand...:thumbsup:

I don't care how much they saved on gas, it was a freakin death trap that I woudln't get anywhere near.
It's funny how GM cars have become deathtraps (Cavalier, Aveo) while Hondas have become number one. Like I said, when we got lazy, they went into overdrive...and it paid off...
 

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1989 Sedan DeVille is now just a fond memory ....
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ben72227 said:
Sandy I wish we were all as rich as you are:thumbsup:
The fact is that people nowadays that have a mortage(sp?), 2 kids and a car payment can't afford to buy a new car every 3 years. They want (and need) cars that will last them for like 7-10 years. The cars don't have to be the best looking, or the most fancy either; but they need to be efficient and reliable. And Jap cars are both:thumbsup:

Now, American auto makers are getting better, but they're still a bit behind. The new designs are nice, but most of them still lack some refinement that is needed. Perfect example - the CTS. It's a great comeback car, but I bet the next generation will be EXCELLENT:thumbsup: I mean, judging by how nice the new Buick Lucerne is, I can tell that GM is only getting better with each step they take...

Still, they are doing some questionable things - like a FWD Impala, no pony car in sight, etc...:confused:
I have a wife, three kids and a mortgage but no car payments. I can't afford to buy a new car so I buy mine used. My wife drives our 96 Aerostar which we are second owners. It has around 130K and is still running strong (yes, we just had the tranny rebuilt but that is the only major repair). We've had the car for over 7 years.

Then there is the 88 Mustang which I recently passed down to my oldest daughter. I bought it about 14 years ago (3rd owner) with 44K on the clock. It now has over 330K with no major repairs (other than head gaskets) and I've never replaced the clutch.

Last is my 89 DeVille. It started as a Delco fleet car and my neighbor bought and put 74K on it. I bought it last July and it has just recently passed the 100K milestone. No major problems, it drives like a dream and has been very dependable.

In fact, all of my cars have been used, only two were imports. My first was a 67 VW Bug which I beat to death, the second was a 71 RX-2. All of my cars have been relaible when I took proper care of them but the nicest of them have been the Mustang, the Sable and especially the DeVille.

I can't think of an import that I would be interested in buying new or used.
 
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