Cadillac Owners Forum banner

21 - 40 of 51 Posts

·
Registered
90 Eldo -SOLD-, 98 ETC -SOLD-, 86 XR4Ti Track Car, 07 Ranger
Joined
·
963 Posts
I have to interject a small point, I managed to find one small weakness in the driveline but it's not the tranny, it's the CV axles, if you've ever turned the wheel over and smoked the tires (till the stability system comes on and brakes the wheels) you can actually over torque the joints, I've managed to do it twice, it'll snap the joint and you'll end up with no codes, engine running in gear and can watch the RPMs climb under load but you won't go anywhere :) You actually have to be real careful cause it's very easy to hit the rev limiter!

Also, back about 2 years ago when I spoke with Mark on the phone after he was inching his 99STS to 500 FWHP and 500+ ft-lbs of torque, he had had no problems, but he rebuilt his tranny with mostly stock parts minus the LSD, I think he also played around with various high stall torque converters but ended up with a mild upgrade compared to stock since he still wanted to keep it daily driveable, while not all-proving, it does go to show the strength of the 4T80e...
 

·
Registered
The Northstar Tuner
Joined
·
2,759 Posts
2008 Chevrolet Impala
MN7 Transmission - Automatic 4-Speed, HMD, 4T65-E, Heavy Duty
M15 Transmission - Automatic 4-Speed, HMD, 4T65-E, Enhanced Electronic
.
1999 Buick Regal
Regal LS 3.8L, V6 MFI L36 4T65-E MN3

Regal GS 3.8L, V6 MFI/SC L67 4T65E-HD MN7
 

·
Registered
'87 Jeep, '10 Thruxton, '00 Duc 748, '01 748R (853cc)
Joined
·
3,703 Posts
It can also be rebuilt with heavy duty steel/friction plates, which are thinner and stronger, give the clutch packs more grabbing force. There are a few companies out there that will build track ready 4T80E's. They aren't cheap though, so to build one up for a daily driver would be useless. They can be built to handle well over 600+hp, and at least 500+ lb/ft of torque. Such a transmission would really only be at home in something like a Fiero where you could apply F/I to the N*, making it necessary to build the tranny up, otherwise you'd toast the clutch packs anytime you tried to shift passed 70% throttle. That's why Mark would shift at red line, the clutch packs would have just slipped and fried themselves. You'd also probably need some stronger planetary gears sets as well. These could be machined, but would be costly too. With the clutch packs grabbing a hold of 500+lb/ft of torque, the stock gears are likely to simply shear teeth off, or just crack and explode under such force. It happens with TH350's. Their clutch pack design can handle lots of power, but the planetary gear set is the week link. The TH400 trans has additional bracing to aid in dealing with the excessive force transfered from the clutch packs to the gears under high load behind a powerful engine.

I wouldn't trust a stock 4T80E passed 350 lb/ft driving it every day (considering it was driven like I drive my car....HARD!). Anymore than that and I'd consider heavy duty clutch packs to deal with the added force.

As for 40% over stock, that's a maximum torque input of 450lb/ft.....which is a lot, especially for a FWD car who's suspension isn't design to cope with that much torque, let alone what it has from the factory.


The half shafts are a weak point as well. Many 03/04 Cobra owners found themselves snapping half shafts at the track once they upped the power, or in some cases just ran drag radials. The horrendous weight transfer to the rear on our fwd yachts helps ease the stress on the axles, but your still asking for trouble running the kind of power Mark is through the stock units.

As Raze mentioned, the CV joints aren't too fond of excessive torque input either. I bet you could probably have a set of HD half shafts, with beefier CV joints machined for the car as well, but at what cost.

At this point, I've pretty much given up on making the car more powerful, and have decided to focus more on making it more balanced in regards to handling, and managing the power it already has during WOT launches. I feel focusing more on those two aspects then power alone will in the end, make the car much more driver friendly (that is, if your like me and beat the piss out of it almost every day).
 

·
Registered
90 Eldo -SOLD-, 98 ETC -SOLD-, 86 XR4Ti Track Car, 07 Ranger
Joined
·
963 Posts
danbuc,

if you want to improve handling and overall balance do 3 things:

1) upgrade to stiffer/lower springs (ideally you'd like a matched shock absorber to a given spring rate but slapping on some Eibachs on your OEM or aftermarket passive struts is a heck of a lot better than stock while cornering and much more economical than full on customizable custom made setup...

2) upgrade brakes, get higher quality rotors and pick up some hawk ceramic pads, bleed the brake system, potentially rebuild your calipers, I'd mention other ceramic pads but I don't know of anyone who makes them for Cadillacs. I personally use R1 Concepts rotors, they're not that expensive, crossdrilled and slotted (more for looks) but occasionally I beat on them enough that it makes a difference, and besides for the price of them over high end OEMs I won't feel bad replacing them after 20-30k miles if they crack/warp. I also use Axxis Metal Master brake pads, they're semi-metaillic, semi-ceramic, kinda gives you a fair tradeoff between full ceramics and full metals and provide superior stopping power over even the best OEM 'performance' pads I've tried...

3) TIRES TIRES TIRES, they are not all equal, they do not all handle/perform the same. I never really bought into this with previous daily drivers that I plunked around town in, on my Eldo though I've been through 4 different sets of tires and have tried a number of different kinds due to poor wear (I think I managed to get 22,000 miles out of my last set of Goodyears), I LOVE the new Goodyear Response Edge tires, superior grip, handling, and cornering. They have a VERY flat sidewall compared to tires in the same size class if you're still on your OEM rims that are carbon fiber reinforced for some serious flat cornering. I think they improved lateral grip as much as the springs, together they're amazing.

4/add on) If you have the money a good set of lightweight rims that allow for more air passage they'll help cool your brakes and save you weight which = greater acceleration since your rolling momentum decreases!

5/add add on) Remove all weight from your car :) I don't mean gut it, but if you really want to up performance realize that every 10 lbs off your car is equivalent to about 1 hp :)
 

·
Registered
'87 Jeep, '10 Thruxton, '00 Duc 748, '01 748R (853cc)
Joined
·
3,703 Posts
I'm in the process of doing all that right now....it's just I have near zero funds so it's been a long...long process. I run Hawk Ceramic pads all around. I've got Toyo Proxes on the car...second set actually. I wanna pic up the strut tower brace, and thicker front/rear sway bars. I'd like to get my hands on a set of lightweight 17" rims....been thinking about getting a set from CardioDoc off ebay or whatever, but again.....money is the key problem.


...And yes they would most likely be Cadillac Rims.....or maybe some other GM brand, no aftermarket crap though.
 

·
Registered
The Northstar Tuner
Joined
·
2,759 Posts
I am in rough numbers, but $12,000 installed
This is for a complete engine, harness, ECM, TCM, all the fluids, Super charger, T-body, belt, P/S pump setup, IPC if needed, VTD module if needed.
 

·
Registered
2001 cadillac sts
Joined
·
285 Posts
I am in rough numbers, but $12,000 installed
This is for a complete engine, harness, ECM, TCM, all the fluids, Super charger, T-body, belt, P/S pump setup, IPC if needed, VTD module if needed.
......uh.......What?
 

·
Registered
The Northstar Tuner
Joined
·
2,759 Posts
I think it will run about $10K, But I padded it by 2K.
That would be low mile replacement engine, Replacement GM engine Control Managment ( ECM ), Harness, Tranmission Control Module (this is needed because you have an ECM not a PCM), Software upgrade, Blower and drive system, 80mm T-body, P/S relocation kit, Set up the ECM to read Class 2.
 

·
Registered
Cadillac
Joined
·
33 Posts
I heard a story from back in the day where the N* was fitted with a turbo system as a challenge with all the exotics across the pond. They all the thought the big american tuna boat couldnt hang with them in the autobond, as it was told to me...all the programmers at the time were familar with writing any tune they needed to. I guess it took them by surprise-they were all cruising about 150ish, when they heard a high pitched scream, only to look back and see the N* pass all of them from behind. All the original programmers that knew what was what have either moved on or retired....just a story I heard-thought it was interesting.
 

·
Registered
1995 cadillac deville 4.9liter
Joined
·
86 Posts
what are thes codes for
P0234 - Turbocharger Engine Overboost Condition
P0235 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 1 Circuit
P0236 - Turbocharger Boost System
P0237 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor Circuit Low Voltage
P0238 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor Circuit High Voltage
P0239 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Circuit
P0240 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Performance
P0241 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Circuit Low Voltage
P0242 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Circuit High Voltage
P0243 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1
P0244 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1 Performance
P0245 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1 Low Voltage
P0246 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1 High Voltage
P0247 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2
P0248 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2 Performance
P0249 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2 Low Voltage
P0250 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2 High Voltage
 

·
Registered
82 fleetwood - 97 deville
Joined
·
452 Posts
what are thes codes for
P0234 - Turbocharger Engine Overboost Condition
P0235 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 1 Circuit
P0236 - Turbocharger Boost System
P0237 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor Circuit Low Voltage
P0238 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor Circuit High Voltage
P0239 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Circuit
P0240 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Performance
P0241 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Circuit Low Voltage
P0242 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Circuit High Voltage
P0243 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1
P0244 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1 Performance
P0245 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1 Low Voltage
P0246 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1 High Voltage
P0247 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2
P0248 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2 Performance
P0249 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2 Low Voltage
P0250 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2 High Voltage
manufacturer standard OBDII codes...doesnt mean a thing....
 

·
Registered
1995 cadillac deville 4.9liter
Joined
·
86 Posts
Don't get your hopes to high, the hardest thing is not finding superchargers, it's finding or figuring out how to run a piggyback or stand alone computer. Really unless you are filthy rich it's just not worth the money. Not to mention the picture of that N* would never fit in a Cadillac with those headers on it. That looks like something set up for a Fiero, or a RWD setup, although the pulleys and belts would be on the backside of the motor for a RWD setup.
what do you mean by piggyback or stand alone computer what is that
 

·
Registered
1995 cadillac deville 4.9liter
Joined
·
86 Posts
Apparantly the OBDII is difficult to hack. And according to aftermarket tuning companies there isn't enough demand to justify the development of different programs including ones which would support superchargers running through the factory pcm. I think they should come to this forum, there seems to be plenty of demand at a reasonable price. I think that is the hang up though, getting it done at a reasonable price, something inline with camero, mustang, corvette, aftermarket tunes.
what real problems are their what i mean if you were able to hack what whould you look for and how could it help
 

·
Registered
1995 cadillac deville 4.9liter
Joined
·
86 Posts
That and the fact that the 4t80e is maxed out from the factory. Say your company wanted to sell a modified N* PCM/Supercharger package, in order to avoid liability you would need to state that the current Transmission would not be able to handle the additional power. That means that in addition to the super charger your would need to rebuild your Trans. which would likely go at least, what, $7000+? That figure right there is end-of-story for most ppl. intersted in supercharging/boosting there Caddy...
what is 4t80e and couldint you just beef everything else up
 

·
Registered
1995 cadillac deville 4.9liter
Joined
·
86 Posts
sor really what i have read there is no real smart way to boosting up the performance of your cadillac without damaging something else or having to replace alot and without spending a whole bunch of money. becouse if thats all true you mysofwell got to a junk yard pick up a shell of a cadillac or anyother car and put a highdoller engine with a super/turbo charger and work your way up so the car can handle the whole lot of power my self if i were to start from scrach i whould get an old schooled cadillac just the shell and drop a 5oo hp chevy racing engine in. duel exaust. axles and tranny able to handle power and so basicly supe it up hard
 

·
Registered
'87 Jeep, '10 Thruxton, '00 Duc 748, '01 748R (853cc)
Joined
·
3,703 Posts
sor really what i have read there is no real smart way to boosting up the performance of your cadillac without damaging something else or having to replace alot and without spending a whole bunch of money. becouse if thats all true you mysofwell got to a junk yard pick up a shell of a cadillac or anyother car and put a highdoller engine with a super/turbo charger and work your way up so the car can handle the whole lot of power my self if i were to start from scrach i whould get an old schooled cadillac just the shell and drop a 5oo hp chevy racing engine in. duel exaust. axles and tranny able to handle power and so basicly supe it up hard
MId 80's Fleetwood, with a built 500ci Caddy motor....that's the way to go...
 

·
Registered
82 fleetwood - 97 deville
Joined
·
452 Posts
MId 80's Fleetwood, with a built 500ci Caddy motor....that's the way to go...
82 fleetwood w/ 350 diesel!!!!! LOL:thepan:
i still have mine ;)

i'd LOVE to do a duramax/allison swap and put a SMOKIN huge turbo on it...in keeping with the diesel thing...
 
21 - 40 of 51 Posts
Top