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2009 CTS
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All. I have a 2013 V-Coupe, and I'm considering a sunroof delete. I'm not a fan of sunroofs, and this one has all kinds of wind noise, etc. The car looks nicer without one, is more sleek, and plus you gain a bit of headroom.

I'm having difficulty finding any photos of the chassis of the V coupe. Are they different on the models with and without sunroofs (ie is there an additional structural brace across the roof where the sunroof would be? Does anyone have photos of the roofs of the V coupes with and without sunroofs with headliners removed? Also, anyone have any experience getting the roof replaced? I think i'm going to go with a complete new roof altogether, rather than trying the "fill" the hole. I'm essentially trying to assess what needs to happen to do the job (ie new headliner, new roof, etc.) I just don't know if I'll have to add an additional structural cross member as well).

Let me know if anyone has any input. Thanks a lot!!
 

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2009 CTS
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Discussion Starter #3
It's actually fairly easy to do. Much easier (and cheaper) than buying a new car and paying taxes, etc. I've got work done to this one (pulley, exhaust, intake, tune), and it's only got 2000 miles on it. It's flawless (except for the sunroof). It would be hard to find another as great as the one I have. Only issue is I don't want the sunroof. A new roof is no big deal at all.
 

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2014 SRX Performance, 2013 CTS-V
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It seems like whenever you want a loaded car you get a sunroof. I can't remember the last car I had without a sunroof. I never use the sunroof and could care less if I have one, but on the majority of vehicles it drops the trade in value if you don't have one.
I would think if you factored in the cost of removing your sunroof, plus the big drop in value of the car for having removed the existing sun roof. It would be considerably cheaper to trade in your current car and order one without a sunroof. Are you complaining about the noise with the sunroof open? If that's the case why open it? I have had my 2014 SRX for 1-1/2 years and have never opened the sunroof. I have never opened my 2013 CTS-V sunroof either.
 

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2012 Black Diamond CTS-V Coupe
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Movinon said:
It seems like whenever you want a loaded car you get a sunroof. I can't remember the last car I had without a sunroof. I never use the sunroof and could care less if I have one, but on the majority of vehicles it drops the trade in value if you don't have one. I would think if you factored in the cost of removing your sunroof, plus the big drop in value of the car for having removed the existing sun roof. It would be considerably cheaper to trade in your current car and order one without a sunroof. Are you complaining about the noise with the sunroof open? If that's the case why open it? I have had my 2014 SRX for 1-1/2 years and have never opened the sunroof. I have never opened my 2013 CTS-V sunroof either.
Not to mention the huge drop in resale once someone determines you did major bodywork to remove and graft on a different roof.

While you say "it's no big deal", it is a major structural component and I for one would move on to a different vehicle if I came across this situation as a shopper. In addition to the structural element, there are sensors and side curtain airbags that you're dealing with.

I have absolutely no issues with wind noise, especially when it and the sunshade is closed.

If you have wind noise or rattles, it may merit a dealership visit.
 

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2009 CTS
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Discussion Starter #6
The noise is with the sunroof closed. There are numerous complaints on these forums of wind noise and water leaking on OEM sunroofs--they are not designed adequately (just like the supercharger coupling and the lugnut-rotor interface). Engineering is definitely not perfect.
Changing the "skin" on a roof is not major body work. It's just replacing a sheet metal panel, applying some adhesive and tack-welding and painting. That's basics for any body shop. The skin of the roof is not a structural element. That is what the unibody is for. If anything, a solid roof would add rigidity to the vehicle. As far as resale goes on these cars, they are plagued with sunroof issues (as this forum states). I looked for a used V without a sunroof. I would have paid 3-4k extra for one without, so as far as resale goes, it would help it in my books. I did determine since posting this morning that there is no difference in the frame between the V coupe with the sunroof, and the V coupe without. They both have the same solid frame around the sunroof (whether there is one or not). So it looks like all there is to this job is re-skinning the roof, insulating, and changing out the headliner. To do this job, you don't touch the airbags whatsoever. I have a good friend who owns a reputable body shop, and he said this job is very straightforward (roofs are replaced on cars all the time). Reskinning and painting is around $1500, but my friend said he’ll do it for me for nothing as long as I’m there to help on a Sunday. New headliner is $400. So a day of labor and $400 for a new roof seems worth it to me.
So back to my comment of it being "no big deal". My background is in mechanical engineering, I design equipment for a living, and I used to work for the powertrain division for GM for more than a decade. The "skin" on the roof doesn't add any structure. In all actuality, adding a sunroof makes a car weaker if it's a sedan. Usually sedans have cross-braces, but fortunately, the coupe does not. See attached photo showing the sedan chassis with the cross-brace (that the coupe does not have). Therefore, if you have a sedan with a sunroof, you are missing this cross-brace, and your chassis is actually weaker than a non-sunroof car.
When I first posted in this forum, I was looking for some informative feedback on this project. Instead, I’m getting comments from people who don’t understand what it takes to do this job. I’m not looking to be criticized for wanting to make this change. I am fully capable of understanding what it takes to do the work. I was just hoping for some input from anyone else with experience who could throw out some tips.

UNIBODY.jpg
Roof Removed 1.jpg Roof Removed 2.jpg Roof Removed 3.jpg
 

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Gone; ‘09 V, ‘13 V coupe. Curr; ‘14 PG Vsport prem w/Kona interior
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The sunroof on my coupe is the one feature I'd be happiest not to have (for all the same reasons you cited plus a couple more). In order to get all the other features I wanted without waiting for a special order I accepted one with a sunroof. Overall though, it's not that big of a deal to me and it would help the resale value if I ever sold it, which I won't.
More power to you if you want a solid roof and have the resources/time to get the job done. :)
Since you have to replace the headliner anyway, have you considered alacantara? It's something I have been considering for a while. Headliner, pillars, and dash done in alcantara would look great in these cars IMO.
 

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2009 CTS
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Discussion Starter #9
That's a great call--I hadn't thought about the alacantara headliner. I'll have to look into that. Do you have one on yours? I've seen some photos after a google search, and now i'm very interested.

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The no sunroof issue was why I had to order mine - wanted the other options but not the sunroof.
In hindsight, I should have just ordered a new one loaded minus the sunroof. I got such a good deal on the 2013 that I couldn't pass it up. I figured the sunroof wouldn't be something that would bother me that much, but I plan to keep this car for a long time, so in my mind it's worth the investment for the delete. We'll see if I muster up the courage to "cut" the roof off. I'm still waiting for any (worthwhile and technical) feedback/reasoning as to why this is not a good idea.
 

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Gone; ‘09 V, ‘13 V coupe. Curr; ‘14 PG Vsport prem w/Kona interior
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That's a great call--I hadn't thought about the alacantara headliner. I'll have to look into that. Do you have one on yours? I've seen some photos after a google search, and now i'm very interested.
Not yet. I'm still looking for a shop with a good rep. I want it to look perfect when it's done.
 

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2015 CTS-V Coupe 6MT Crystal White Polished Wheels Sunroof
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OP,
Would there be any way to seal the sunroof from the inside with the headliner off ? You could disconnect the switch to it or pull the fuse.I was thinking you could still have use of the shade
and the ability to at least use it to let light through and it would be nice at night too. I guess its not an option to you if you dont like the way the shade molding and indent look to you. Just a thought.
 

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2009 CTS
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Discussion Starter #12
I did consider that. I'm just really not a fan of sunroofs. They all have issues after they age, they all leak water and air, and they all detract from the look of the vehicle from the outside and inside, create more aerodynamic drag, they add weight, they make the cabin hotter on a summer day, The lessen the headroom, They make the cabin louder, the frame weaker, are less safe in a rollover accident, are prone to more rattles, etc... I could go on and on. In my mind, they just "cheapen" up the car. I just want the thing gone for good. Last car I'll ever buy with a sunroof--lesson learned.
 

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I am 5'11" so I have never experienced head room problems with a sunroof, like tall people do. I have had many cars with sunroofs, because they come that way loaded and my wife likes them ( I have no use for them one way or the other). In all the cars that I have owned, with sunroofs, I have never had a problem with noise or water leakage, but I don't keep cars more then a few years. I'm sure that if I drove clunkers with sunroofs there would be problems with them and also on most other parts of the car. I had a BMW 5 series that had tons of problems, but now that I think back, nothing went wrong with the sunroof.
 

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where do people find the time to rip apart a sunroof and graft a new roof to their V? It sounds like a good idea for someone who doesnt enjoy the roof but really.
As others have pointed out come resale time any educated buyer will assume the worst when they view your car. Rollover and fixed it for less than replacing the sunroof. Besides becasue of the laser welding your now painting a good chunk of the car. Its not just the roofs but also the pillars and into the rear quarters. I have a small scratch behind passenger rear fender and I choose to live with it because to fix it means repainting half the car.

do as you choose. Don't do plastic surgery to a good car that you only drove 2000 miles in two years.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
where do people find the time to rip apart a sunroof and graft a new roof to their V? It sounds like a good idea for someone who doesnt enjoy the roof but really.
As others have pointed out come resale time any educated buyer will assume the worst when they view your car. Rollover and fixed it for less than replacing the sunroof. Besides becasue of the laser welding your now painting a good chunk of the car. Its not just the roofs but also the pillars and into the rear quarters. I have a small scratch behind passenger rear fender and I choose to live with it because to fix it means repainting half the car.

do as you choose. Don't do plastic surgery to a good car that you only drove 2000 miles in two years.
It doesn't take that much time. 1 day of work in a body shop. Another day to do the headliner. It's really not a difficult job. If I do the job, I plan to do it perfectly. There will be no signs of a modification to the vehicle. Everything will be as it was factory (so any buyer would not even know the work was done). Laser welding is something that has become more popular with roofs on European cars. A competing technology is adhesive bonding, which is what is done on the roofs of the V's, in combination with a bit of laser welding. When you adhesive bond the roof (superior because no heat related distortion is induced into the roof panel), it creates a seamless transition between the roof and pillars. Therefore, no painting (only fading) is required between the roof and pillars. Pillars don't need to be repainted--only the roof.
 

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Gone; ‘09 V, ‘13 V coupe. Curr; ‘14 PG Vsport prem w/Kona interior
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OP,

If you're willing, please post some pics/notes of the process. I will probably never do it, but I (and possibly other forum members) am interested in seeing how yours turns out! :)
 

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So what if the next buyer checks the VIN and sees that it's supposed to have a sunroof and he notices it doesn't? I would probably think the car has been rolled over and privately repaired or something. Not hating on your idea just curious.
 

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2009 CTS
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Discussion Starter #18
So what if the next buyer checks the VIN and sees that it's supposed to have a sunroof and he notices it doesn't? I would probably think the car has been rolled over and privately repaired or something. Not hating on your idea just curious.
Yes I did think of that. Selling privately, very few people check a VIN. Usually, people just look at a CARFAX and that's about it (from my experience). Anyone who actually researches the VIN and notices that will probably pass on the car if they suspect something. Not really planning on selling the car, so it shouldn't be an issue.

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Yes I did think of that. Selling privately, very few people check a VIN. Usually, people just look at a CARFAX and that's about it (from my experience). Anyone who actually researches the VIN and notices that will probably pass on the car if they suspect something. Not really planning on selling the car, so it shouldn't be an issue.
Plus, if they ask, I'll have plenty of photos/documentation of the process. I can explain to them what was done to the car, and they can decide if it's something they're still interested in.
 

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I'd just cover the hole with plexiglass first, and get the different headliner for the headroom; BUT, you have to remove the windshield to do so. That's quite the ambitious job for sure.
 

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I hate sunroofs. I flew 1/2 way across the country for a V with NO SUN ROOF. Then I drove it 1000 miles home. Problems I do NOT have to worry about: Wind noise, water leaks, burning hot car in the summer, less head room, I'm sure there are a few more that I missed.
 
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