Study: Detroit lifts quality but Toyota still king
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Let's see what happens in 2010. I know GM (especially Cadillac) are putting a lot of emphasis on improved quality and customer satisfaction. I'm suspecting Cadillac will move up in the ranks.
Anyway, I still impressed with our continued advancements.
Anyway, I still impressed with our continued advancements.
Good news, but GM does have a long way to go in my opinion. My Toyota truck has 100,000 miles and has never been to dealer for anything other than routine maintenance (e.g. tuneups). While I love my CTS, its already been in the shop 3 times. And just last week I noticed a water stain in the headliner and I don't have sunroof.
My 2004 GMC truck has over 80,000 miles towing a 24 foot enclosed trailer and has never had ANY WORK done to it other than changing the front brake pads.
Why did your Toyota need tuneups?
Frank Gonzalez
I don't question Black08's assessment of his truck but I do find that people vary greatly about what they see as routine maintenance. IOW, if it's not a scheduled issue, they don't like it - they don't seem to mind paying for scheduled stuff, though, and are more accepting about unscheduled problems after ~80k miles.
Case in point: a friend recently boasted about how reliable his Acura was (a TL I think): "only required routine maintenance". We got talking and his routine maintenance included a wiring harness and plugs at 70k miles, a timing belt and water pump, shocks, and motor mounts. IOW, his maintenance costs were about double what mine were on my (higher mileage) Bonneville of the same vintage. But - like my Bonneville - his TL was always reliable and no component ever failed on him that required an unscheduled visit to the dealership.
So, my friend really was referring to reliability and not maintenance costs - the distinction is unquestionably important.
Case in point: a friend recently boasted about how reliable his Acura was (a TL I think): "only required routine maintenance". We got talking and his routine maintenance included a wiring harness and plugs at 70k miles, a timing belt and water pump, shocks, and motor mounts. IOW, his maintenance costs were about double what mine were on my (higher mileage) Bonneville of the same vintage. But - like my Bonneville - his TL was always reliable and no component ever failed on him that required an unscheduled visit to the dealership.
So, my friend really was referring to reliability and not maintenance costs - the distinction is unquestionably important.
Sorry, I disagree. 0.84 versus 1.65 means almost twice as many problems! And in any books it is a lot.
BTW, I do not pay much attention to this study. The survey does not differentiate between real problems and customers complains. Also what is important is the severity of the problems. Is this a rattle or drive train problem like with the CTS? Were the problem fixed within 90 days? What after that? For me long term reliability is far more important. Granted, the initial problems do affect the joy of owning a new car. Still if they are fixed and car drives reliably for years to come I am happy.
Oh, IMHO GM has a long way to go with quality. But at least it is making steps in the right direction.
People hold American cars to a different standard. Althought Toyota and Honda are indeed great cars, their owners will almost never admit when they have prolems or create excuses when they do happen. For example, my best friend has a Toyota Tundra. It has been a VERY GOOD vehicle and has never been to the dealer for a problem. However, the little hub-caps over the lug-nuts keep falling off due to poor design. He brushes this off as "no big deal" and keeps talking about how great the truck is.
On the other hand, he also has a Dodge Magnum HEMI that he absolutely abuses. He is always compaining about the crappy "fit & finnish" . I asked him what that means and he told me the position of the Turn Signal lever is bad design.
One gets the benefit of the doubt for a real issue and one gets the bad feelings based on simple design choice, not functionality or reliability.
It will take awhile before the PERCEPTION of bad quality goes away....even when the quality is on par with the best.
On the other hand, he also has a Dodge Magnum HEMI that he absolutely abuses. He is always compaining about the crappy "fit & finnish" . I asked him what that means and he told me the position of the Turn Signal lever is bad design.
One gets the benefit of the doubt for a real issue and one gets the bad feelings based on simple design choice, not functionality or reliability.
It will take awhile before the PERCEPTION of bad quality goes away....even when the quality is on par with the best.
Let's face it, I believe that the car magazines are secretly owned by BMW and Toyota. They've done a great job destroying the American car industry.
I really like my 08 CTS and it is my first American Car. Well, Why CTS is my first American Car? I don't know why, but, somehow, I always consider to purchar American Car but I always got Toyota, Honda or Lexus (except Trucks and big SUV).
I guess, because of Exterior Design, Interior Desgin, Resale Value, Initial Quality and Rumor - Purchase Japanes Car and Lease American Car
Since late 2007, There are big improvement in the Exterior Design of American Cars (I really like them) However, the Interior Design and the Initial Quality are not good enough for me to purchase American Car other than CTS compared to Toyota/Lexus yet.
If GM and/or other American Auto company increase the initial quality and the interior design I will definitely purchase more American Cars.
I guess, because of Exterior Design, Interior Desgin, Resale Value, Initial Quality and Rumor - Purchase Japanes Car and Lease American Car
Since late 2007, There are big improvement in the Exterior Design of American Cars (I really like them) However, the Interior Design and the Initial Quality are not good enough for me to purchase American Car other than CTS compared to Toyota/Lexus yet.
If GM and/or other American Auto company increase the initial quality and the interior design I will definitely purchase more American Cars.
"Saving GM" is a very informative video that originally aired on CNBC. I now use it in my marketing classes to show my students marketing mistakes to avoid.
http://www.fancast.com/tv/Saving-GM...100111218/Saving-GM:-Inside-the-Crisis/videos
Bob Lutz even admits that GM quality was not up to par. As an example, he shows the reporter a 1982 Cadillac Cimmaron. Lutz then shows how GM has turned things around with the CTS-V. That's great, but you can't just have a couple of quality cars in the portfolio. Total quality management needs to be embraced as part of the company's culture.
http://www.fancast.com/tv/Saving-GM...100111218/Saving-GM:-Inside-the-Crisis/videos
Bob Lutz even admits that GM quality was not up to par. As an example, he shows the reporter a 1982 Cadillac Cimmaron. Lutz then shows how GM has turned things around with the CTS-V. That's great, but you can't just have a couple of quality cars in the portfolio. Total quality management needs to be embraced as part of the company's culture.
If you think there only a couple of highly rated cars in GM's portfolio, then you don't know much about GM's offerings: Malibu/Aura, Astra, CTS, Corvette, G8, Acadia/Enclave/Traverse, and GM's truck line are at the top of their class. I'm sure a few were missed, but these cars are all at the top of their class.
As others have noted, I take long-term ownership much more seriously than the 90 day ratings.
I also agree with other comments about what almost seems like an anti-American bias by many of the car magazines. As if it isn't foreign, it isn't cool.
- I remember a few car magazines complaining about GM using the arms on the trunk door versus the strut type. This comment would appear numerous times as if this was a technological wonder. Well, the CTS and most of GM's newer designs have went in this direction. The Lexus 350, Audi A4, and many other competitors now use the old style arms. Well, guess what...now I see car magazines commenting how the strut type reduces the door opening size.
- I remember Hyundai would almost always get a comment towards the end of their review that went something like this, "Not quite the best, but with that awesome warranty, a great deal!". Well...since GM has improved their warranty I haven't seen any references to the warranty.
- I have read a few reviews of Toyota that have went something like this,"boring car, but who cares....they are so reliable" then a few lines later you'll see references to a few rattles or mechanical issues, with another comment such as, "probably a fluke, but we had lost the third wheel when driving around the first hard corner but with Toyota's reputation I'm sure it will be resolved".
I just shake my head...
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/08/autos/jdpa_dependability/index.htm?postversion=2007080909
As others have noted, I take long-term ownership much more seriously than the 90 day ratings.
I also agree with other comments about what almost seems like an anti-American bias by many of the car magazines. As if it isn't foreign, it isn't cool.
- I remember a few car magazines complaining about GM using the arms on the trunk door versus the strut type. This comment would appear numerous times as if this was a technological wonder. Well, the CTS and most of GM's newer designs have went in this direction. The Lexus 350, Audi A4, and many other competitors now use the old style arms. Well, guess what...now I see car magazines commenting how the strut type reduces the door opening size.
- I remember Hyundai would almost always get a comment towards the end of their review that went something like this, "Not quite the best, but with that awesome warranty, a great deal!". Well...since GM has improved their warranty I haven't seen any references to the warranty.
- I have read a few reviews of Toyota that have went something like this,"boring car, but who cares....they are so reliable" then a few lines later you'll see references to a few rattles or mechanical issues, with another comment such as, "probably a fluke, but we had lost the third wheel when driving around the first hard corner but with Toyota's reputation I'm sure it will be resolved".
I just shake my head...
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/08/autos/jdpa_dependability/index.htm?postversion=2007080909
You nailed it! Quality is not once off event. It is the company culture. It takes years to implement and a lot of efford to maintain on the management side. What GM did over the years was simply give customers incentive. Now, that buyers are much more educated and there is competition this does not work.
I wish GM well and hope it emerges from chapter 11 a stronger, but more importantly smarter company. Company that will manufacture cars that consumers want! Better designed and better quality. They have done first steps. Now they need to continue.
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