STS-V Pricing is $77K!!!

Tony Orlando said:

Finally, don't claim your opinions as being truth. You said that the CTS-V "stomped" the S4, then why did Car and Driver magazine (Vol 50, #5) say that, "Although the CTS-V's value rated high, it fared worse in areas realted to refinement: driver comfort, ergonomics and engine noise, vibration and harshness. It was by far the noisiest inside at wide open throttle, prompting one tester to write that it came across as "the muscle car of the group", which in this case is a tepid accolade." The feelings of superiority you have for your V are the same as others will have for their STS-V, but for different reasons, and not everyone will agree.

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Yeah, I read that article too.

The S4, V, and the C55 were all rated very high and it was VERY clear they were splitting hairs on which was the best car. (i.e. "As a consequence, the C55 finished one point behind the CTS-V by one point. We can only hope this doesn't provoke any arrests in Stuttgart." For the record, the final "scores" were: S4=204, V=201, C55 AMG= 200).

In terms of performance, the V did stomp the S4. The S4, however, made that up and then some (in Car & Driver's mind(s)) via other attributes, such as driver comfort, features/amenities, fit and finish, etc.

LOL--and the comment that the V was loudest at wide-open throttle cracked me up when I first read it and it does to this day. Aftermarket exhaust systems seem to be one of the first modifications that V-owners (and many high-performance car drivers) do. Why? Because of potential performance enhancements, as well as more/better SOUND. Hell, the stock V exhaust is so quiet, I could hear a mouse fart over it at 200 meters...

Tony Orlando said:

The CTS-V on the other hand, is a muscle car 24/7, but when you drive it gently, it doesn't magically turn into a luxury car. It's still loud, it still rides firm, and you still have to shift it. Not that that's bad, but that's just the way it is.

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Umm, no. See comment above. My V is, by far, the quietest car I have ever owned (and some were not performance cars). At WOT, the whine of the maggie literally dwarfs everything else (& stock is much quieter than that)...

Luna. said:

Apologies, but I guess I don't get it. In my mind, we are all value buyers to a certain degree (don't make me come up with 1,000,000 examples--a little thought and it's clear what I mean). Clearly, where each individual draws the line definitely varies from person to person, but it definitely exists in each of us.

I very much fail to recognize how one has more "status" in a STS-V vs., say, a BMW M5 or a Mercedes Benz E55 AMG. As a matter of fact, I would think "status" higher with the foreign listed cars than the STS-V with, not to mention, superior performance. And, let's not forget, that is at least SOME (if not a very significant portion) of WHY we are purchasing a V in the first place!! We want some performance!!!

Make no mistake about it--I very much love all 3 of the V-series Caddys. HOWEVER, the pricing of the STS and the XLR is disappointing in my mind. Either the performance needs to go up or the price go down in my mind.

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There will be "Status" in the STS-V because it will be produced in limited numbers and have a higher sticker price than many other status cars. (and the little "V" on the fender doesn't hurt either ) Of course people have their own personal preference as to what brand is "higher status," as you said, person to person it varies. It might even be argued that it is a "bargain" as compared to some other AMG models, etc. I don't believe there will be disappointment among the vast majority of buyers with 469 HP. Hopefully, it will offer comparable performance for the pricetag, but time will tell. It is designed to perform. The STS-V will be seen and respected as compared to a E55 AMG or M5 because loyal GM or Cadillac fans will purchase one over those other choices, if they choose.

Like I said, Cadillac should go all out and produce the Sixteen or a Maybach-type vehicle to get the ultimate recognition. HERE is an example WHY Cadillac NEEDS to produce an even higher-status vehicle, something like the Maybach..........(I think Cadillac was "snubbed"....)

An article in the Robb Report (for the luxury lifestyle) Magazine caught my eye. I won't type the entire article, just the main points. From April 2002, p.98. here it goes:

Autos as Acquired Tastes,

"One of the more poignant moments in American cinema occurs in the 1987 classic TIN MEN, when aluminum siding salesman Danny Devito tells his wife, Barbara Hershey, about the importance of driving a Cadillac. A less substantial vehicle, Devito's character explains, would not instill confidence in his clients, but a Cadillac means you're dealing with someone of importance. Audiences laughed; the movie was set in 1963, and American tastes had changed dramatically since then. Upward mobility baby boomers no longer aspire to Cadillacs. Success meant a Mercedes, a BMW, or a Jaguar. The desire to turn heads was fueling a bull market in Ferraris and Lambourghinis, the ultimate in high powered sex appeal."

"Even then, the more things changed, the more they remaned the same, says Syracuse University Professor Robert Thompson, president of the Popular Culture Association. The way most of us identify our station in life is by the trappings of refinement; gracious homes, art collections, cellars stocked with fine wines. Yet none of these-however rare and costly-signal success and taste as effectively as an automobile. Everyone sees what we drive, while they may not see your art collection in your house."

"How else, for instance, does one explain the BMW M coupe? The average motorist might find its quirky, ugly duckling silhouette amusing, but vintage racer and car collecter Sandy Sadtler, proprietor of restoration specialists Madden & Ryan of Radnor Pa.., was enthralled. "The moment I saw it, I thought anything that looks this homely has to have great performance," says Sadtler, who bought one."

The article goes on to mention how wonderful Mercedes, Jaguar, and Bently are seemingly implying domestic cars are junk!?

Rich people may NOT be value buyers. They won't care about the million dollar price tag for the Sixteen, they will purchase one regardless, and those are the people Cadillac would target with cars like the Sixteen. Compared to that, the STS-V is a bargain.

A very interesting thread.

I'm sure I'm not going to change anyone's minds, but heres my take.

1) Let's not go saying that "I could buy car x and car y for the price of an STS-V" That's just dopey. The STS-V either provides value at it's price point or it does not. No one considering purchasing one will be interested in which two other cars he might be able to buy instead, just as you were not concerned with which two you could have purchased instead of your V.

2) The CTS-V is a Cadillac. Sure, it has a Vette motor, but it pushes an 8min19sec ring time because underneath it's all Cadillac. Just like the CTS which it's modified from, just like the STS which is the luxury version, and just like the SRX which is the 'chick' car.

3) The STS-V will be very competitive in it's market. Will it be the next "Boy Racer" mobile? No, nor I believe, was it intended to be. However, if you're parting out a 550i, an A8, a high end Lexus or Infinity, then this car will provide significantly more bang for the buck at higher speeds.

4) As much as we all wish it, Cadillac is not BMW yet. It has a great sports sedan in the CTS-V. It has a fantastic entry level luxury sedan in the CTS. It has a very good luxury sedan in the STS. Now it has a great luxury sport sedan with the STS-V. However, you're not getting the 500hp BMW motor just yet. The N* is a tried and true powerplant which is a GREAT motor in its own right, and by using it for this phase of the reemergence of Cadillac, GM saves a ton of money.

5) The STS-V turned in an 8:30 at the ring. That's just a few tics off the last gen M3 and M5. While that time won't catch the newest BMW's, it's damn good for a 4200lb car with a 16 year old power plant. Give Cadillac a few more years, and the next STS-V with a newer gen N* will smoke the competition. BTW, if anyone has an E55 ring time, I'd be interested in seeing it. Heres a link to some ring times for those interested.

http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073

Finally, isn't it nice to be arguing about how much of a world class car the Cadillac name has become again?

Ralph said:

There ya go, that's why Cadillac needs to build a $100,000 dollar Cadillac, so people beside you at the red light will "look up" to you knowing you paid that much for a limited prestige car, and they will also be considered a serious brand again. :thumbsup:

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Apologies my friend--if the roles were reversed, I'd be saying, "Well, he spent too much money for that car..." :thumbsup:


A big however though would be what you quoted:

"'6.0-liter LS2 V8 borrowed from the Corvette, supercharged to produce 505 hp and 520-lb-ft of torque. With engineers already familiar with squeezing the supercharged 4.4-liter Northstar engine under the STS hood, the LS2 provided just another challenge for the team.'"

THAT would be exactly what I would expect for those bucks. An STS-V with that power plant would immediately make me consider purchasing one immediately, as 520 lb feet of torque is just---jaw dropping awesome.

davesdeville said:

The CTS-V is the enthusiasts car, it's the one you run headers and an aftermarket supercharger on because it's got a Chevy engine in it. The STS-V isn't nearly as much of an enthusiasts car. It's faster stock for stock, and that's probably going to be good enough for whoever bought it.

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I continue to hear all this talk about an "enthusiast" and that this car or that car is an "enthusiast's car," but I suppose I'm confused... What on earth does it mean to be an "enthusiast's car?" What--that I am an ardent supportor of Cadillac? That I have a strong liking for the car?? :wtf:

And I don't believe that Cadillac should settle for "good enough" with its V-series cars.

Question...(and I'm just curious)

Does it really matter how Cadillac achieves the HP? Whether Corvette engine or DOHC? Aren't the numbers the most important aspect with buyers who want bragging rights?

If a pushrod engine can be made with the 505 hp, (STS-V for example) would it REALLY matter to the person behind the wheel? It might matter to the MB or BMW driver at the lights...

Wouldn't it be better to have 505 HP from a pushrod, rather than 469 HP from a DOHC N*.....Sure the pushrod will make more power down low, but does that really matter in this situation.....?

"0 to 60 mph in under 5.0 seconds.
>>> 160-plus-mph top speed.
>>> World-class track times at Germany’s famed Nürburgring"


http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=101519