[The Tony Show]

Please follow This link and scroll down to my post. There is more here than just 1 inch of room and an automatic. Driving a CTS and STS is night and day, and the Vs will be no exception.

 

[The Tony Show]

*sigh* I know I'll regret this, but there is no denying that the CTS-V is an entry level car with upgraded supsension and powertrain. That's not to say it isn't a damn nice car with excellent performance, but a fact is a fact. There's nothing wrong with that, you CTS guys shouldn't take it as an insult. It is the entry level car, just like an M3.

STS and CTS are apples and oranges. The cars have different priorities and intended owners. To say otherwise would be like saying that the SL600 isn't worth the money because it only has a little more shoulder room than an SLK350.

 

[The Tony Show]

You're paying for speed and luxury. Now here's your homework. List all the luxury options available on the STS that are not available on the CTS-V. I hear crickets. Not very many huh?

Oh nevermind. I just noticed you're 18. I thought I knew everything when I was 18 too. Take care. :thumbsup:

Since you were so condescending, okay:


-Double laminated glass around the whole car

-rainsense wipers

-5.1 channel DVD audio

-touchscreen nav

-bluetooth

-twice the sound deadening via mats in the firewall, doors, floor, etc..

-intellibeam headlight control

-leather wrapped door inserts,

-leather wrapped dash

-Leather wrapped center console

-Olive ash wood trim

-A/V interface for iPods

-15 speaker DTS audio system

-power tilt/telescope steering wheel

-ultrasonic park assist

-Adaptive remote start

-Push button start

-2 selectable reverse curb view mirrors

-6 Speed automatic with driver shift control

-Air conditioned seats

...and that's just to name a few luxury items the CTS-V doesn't have as you requested. I won't even get into things like LED tail lights, dual projector beam headlights, projector foglights, decklid spoiler, etc....

No one here insulted your car. If you want to get snippy however, know your facts before you jump up on a pedestal. The CTS is Cadillac's least expensive 4 door car, and one with the optional powertrain enhancements (the V) is a badass sports car with luxury included.

The STS is Cadillac's most expensive 4 door car, and one with the optional powertrain enhancements (the V) is a premium luxury car with badass performance included.

 

[The Tony Show]

I think that the difference between a CTS-V and STS-V buyer may very well be exemplified by the conduct in this thread.

Not one negative comment has been made by STS fans about the CTS-V, yet all the CTS owners feel the need to make comments like the one above. Why? No one from the STS forum goes over to your section and puts down your car. CVP claimed that the CTS-V had the same luxury content as the STS-V, and there would be "crickets" if you tried to list the advantages of the STS-V in that category. I listed twenty-five (off the top of my head!), and instead of owning up to being wrong, the argument just changed to "that luxury stuff's for old fogies". The only crickets I hear are from your camp.

Perhaps the STS-V buyers are concerned about things other than "owning you on the road". Perhaps they aren't interested in doing a Vin Deisel impression and living life "a quarter mile at a time", and perhaps they are considering more than the powertrain and lateral G's when selecting a vehicle, but rather the whole package.

You guys need to find something constructive to do with your time, because if you want to start name calling and cutting down other people's cars, I could spend all day on yours. Perhaps we can agree to disagreeabout what makes a good car, return to the discussion of STS-Vs, and leave the rudeness out of it?

Doubtful...

 

[The Tony Show]

It's not a lecture, I just think it's silly that everyone here who owns a CTS-V wants to compare track numbers. The STS-V isn't a track car, and no one said it was. Your "cricket" comment was silly, because the STS-V has twice the amount of luxury as the CTS-V.

As far as the rest of your comments, it's pretty sad that while you lecture another poster for being young and immature, most of your comments are directly out of the "internet tough guy" handbook. I particularly like the little smileys.

Cadillac owners in general should show a little unity, because if other Cadillac models don't succeed, there won't even be such a thing as a V-Series car in a few years. To claim you aren't rude is ridiculous Just take a look at your own signature.

Finally, don't claim your opinions as being truth. You said that the CTS-V "stomped" the S4, then why did Car and Driver magazine (Vol 50, #5) say that, "Although the CTS-V's value rated high, it fared worse in areas realted to refinement: driver comfort, ergonomics and engine noise, vibration and harshness. It was by far the noisiest inside at wide open throttle, prompting one tester to write that it came across as "the muscle car of the group", which in this case is a tepid accolade." The feelings of superiority you have for your V are the same as others will have for their STS-V, but for different reasons, and not everyone will agree.

 

[The Tony Show]

I agree with you 100% VRocks, and I love the hell out of the CTS-V. I just wish some people could see beyond their own desires and understand that there are people on the flip side of the coin who will accept a little body roll and sacrifice .05g lateral grip in favor of a 469hp, automatic transmission car that hauls ass, as well as cools theirs.

 

[The Tony Show]

I understand your opinion, but where is this #1 thing coming from? What great national car ranking system did I miss that proclaimed the CTS-V #1 in its class? You think it's #1? Awesome. Enjoy it. But it's one man's opinion. There's plenty of websites and magazines that would beg to differ. Not saying they're right or you're wrong............

And what's with #3? No one has proclaimed the STS-V #3 yet except you. And when it is tested, even if it is a few ticks behind the competition in speed, there will be other areas where it will be better. Let's let the first one get to a dealer or at least get tested by a magazine before condemning it.

-Oh, and before I finish:

It's not a 4-door Vette, it's a Cadillac with a Z06 motor. You won't find anyone on the Lotus Elise forums claiming that their car is a "lightweight Celica". Be proud of owning a Cadillac. I am.

 

[The Tony Show]

Whomever said that we're talking about two different types of buyers got it right:

Thank you! Someone finally heard me....

Good Lord, you guys just don't get it. First of all, the V is a driving enthusiasts car. I wasn't drawn to the V for "refinement" and Lexus-like quiet in the cabin. I could care less if the ergonnomics could be improved with a telescoping steering wheel.

That comment was in regards to an earlier post in which someone said that the CTS-V was almost as much of a luxury car as the STS-V. You and I are actually agreeing, but the conversation has become a little muddled.....

The reason for my low post count is simple: I normally lurk in threads but refrain from commenting because the original discussion gets lost to bickering. (*ahem*) It doesn't matter if it's Miata.net, rx8club, whatever. Everyone knows for a fact that their car is better than everyone else's. I got involved in this discussion because I don't think a lot of people here are giving the STS-V a fair shake, and it irked me.

Yes, I'm an STS-V buyer. I've owned mostly sport coupes until the last few years when I built a Miata for SCCA competition. That allows me to get my track days in, while being able to move into a different consideration set of vehicles for my daily driver, since it no longer needs to see double duty on the street and track.

I don't care if the STS-V is a few 10ths slower than an M5 or E55. I'm not taking it drag racing. I think Mercedes and BMW are the most overrated pieces of crap on the road, as evidenced by their abysmal customer satisfaction ratings. Any company that has to pledge to remove several hundred electronic features from a car because of glitches is NOT making a good product.

I also don't care if the CTS-V is faster around a track (which it is). I'm not racing any CTS-Vs, and if I did from a stoplight, I'd probably win unless I was up against one of the 2 people who can launch that car without wheel hop. I've driven a CTS-V about 40 times, including on a track, and it's a great enthusiast muscle car with some luxury.

Just as you CTS-V guys say, you really can't understand until you have one. The little things like never fishing my key out of my pocket to get in and having the car lock behind me automatically are great. I've repurchased all my favorite CD's in 5.1, because the STS's sound system is the best I've ever heard. And dammit, when I spend Cadillac money for a car, I want to look around the interior and feel like I'm in a Cadillac. Being able to mash the gas and do 60 in less than 5 seconds with no wheel hop, shifting or effort is the icing on the cake.

Let me put it another way: The STS-V is a luxury car 24/7, but when you floor it, it's suddenly, almost magically bad ass. You can even shift if you want to.

The CTS-V on the other hand, is a muscle car 24/7, but when you drive it gently, it doesn't magically turn into a luxury car. It's still loud, it still rides firm, and you still have to shift it. Not that that's bad, but that's just the way it is.

Hopefully, this sheds some light on why I'm buying this "loser" car.

 

[The Tony Show]

Well thank you. I guess this means a disagreement actually *ended* in an internet forum???

Alert the media!