[davesdeville]

Like it or not, you CTS-V guys are driving a quick entry level Caddy. People with serious bank tend not to go for entry level.

Watch me get lynched by the CTS-V people...

 

[davesdeville]

Interesting. Uninformed but interesting.

Look at the options and features available on the STS compared to the CTS and tell me who's uninformed.

 

[davesdeville]

You're not paying that $51k for a lot of luxury options, you're paying it for speed.

 

[davesdeville]

I did notice something else today, my few friends who own an M5 or E55 are not true enthusiasts and have never seen any track time with their cars . However, the few I know with an M3 or CTS-V do take their cars to various track events. I wonder if this will be a similar trend with STS-V buyers.

It probably will be, even more so with the V series compared to the M or AMGs. Because enthusiasts, the type who are more likely to modify their car, are more apt to buy the CTS-V than the STS-V simply because there is and will be much more aftermarket support for the CTS-V.

Dave,

C'mon man you really can't be that dense. Please tell me which one of these options listed below actually help the V go faster.

Navigation
Two zone climate control
Bose Stereo
XM Radio
8 way power seats
Heated Seats
Memory Package
Full Leather interior
Leather Steering Wheel
Leather Shifter
Moon Roof
Homelink
Front, Side and Side Curtain Airbags
Fog Lamps and Driving Lights
Tire Pressure Monitor System
Full instrumentation - oil temp, water temp, oil pressure, rear diff temp
OnStar
Auto dimming rear view mirror
Tilt Wheel
Power Steering and Brakes
Alarm Theft Deterrent System
All Power Options
Cruise Control
Headlight Washers
Stability and Traction control
HID headlights


You're paying for speed and luxury. Now here's your homework. List all the luxury options available on the STS that are not available on the CTS-V. I hear crickets. Not very many huh?

Oh nevermind. I just noticed you're 18. I thought I knew everything when I was 18 too. Take care. :thumbsup:

All I'm saying is that the STS has more features and options than the CTS. Take my word for it or research it yourself, it's a fact. Hence, the STS commands a higher price than the CTS. Like it or not, CTS is still the entry level sedan. You CTS-V guys seem like you think your car is God and there's absolutely no reason for anyone to buy an STS-V, that's far from being the case.

BTW, all those features you listed except for 5 (nav, xm, homelink, onstar, & headlight washers) are on my 10 year old ETC or my friends 14 year old Park Ave... you have more airbags too. The non speed related features/options that are only available on the V are few and far between. Seriously though, you're bothering to list "power steering and brakes" as a feature of any car these days?

If the CTS isn't the entry level Cadillac, what is? (And don't say BLS, because that's not out yet, and isn't even going to be available in the US.)

 

[davesdeville]

You CTS-V guys crack me up. You think your car is top dog, and now you're getting pissy because a bigger meaner dog just moved in. The CTS-V is great, only problem for you guys is that the STS-V is better in just about every way except aftermarket.

 

[davesdeville]

Oh I'm not rich don't get me wrong. I paid for my ETC with my own money from a job. If my parents were rich and paid for everything, I'd be driving a CTS-V now and an STS-V asap. BTW, the STS-V will indeed outrun a CTS-V in a straight line (and although autox and road racing is fun, 1/4 mile is what I do.) It's like I said, STS-V > CTS-V in every way except aftermarket support (and price.)

 

[davesdeville]

A couple of quick questions David.

1) Which vehicle do you currently terrorize the quarter mile with? The eldorado or the seville? BTW, when you tire of going in a straight line you will then know the joy of truly driving a performance vehicle vs. aiming.

2) If by ">" you mean larger than you are correct. If ">" means better than you must define better. Is the STS-V a better car for it's targeted market? I don't think so. Is it a better value? I don't think so.

The STS-V is a slightly larger rebadged CTS (yes CTS) with a S/C 4.4 liter. Where else do you think they got those lines? See one on the road and you have to look damned hard to confirm it's an STS coming vs. a CTS. AND it damn well better be faster because from where I'm sittin' that's all its got going for it. It's slower than ALL it's competitors and will sadly get be killed within 2 years after GM realizes it's mistake.

Marketing, pricing and positioning of the STS-V is so far off base as to be laughable. I haven't seen a blunder like this since the Aztek.

1. I don't have a Seville, read my name. I run my ETC at the track once in awhille. Like I said, going fast in a curvy line, "driving" as you call it, is fun. I autocrossed my ETC last Friday. I'll post the video of it tomorrow in the Kills/Racing video section. You can harass me there if you wish to talk about what I drive, rather than in the STS-V forum which neither of us drive.

2. The STS-V, stock for stock, is a better car than the CTS-V in my eyes. And I'm sure a few thousand people who have the cash will agree with me.

The CTS was the first car with the new art&science styling. The SRX, DTS, Escalade, STS, hell even BLS have similar styling. So you're saying they're all CTS clones?

Yep, New Mexico ranked 50th in the ranking of the smartest states. Guess who was 1st. Is there any non pre-production STS-Vs that have turned any 1/4 mile times? It is what you do. Hey, since it is the dumbed-down 2 pedal type, you should have a much easier time launching. But that's what you do. Why don't we see what happens with 2 production Vs first? I mean, that's what I'd do.

Yeah, I live in NM so I must be stupid. Right I haven't seen a production STS-V run the 1/4 but I would bet money it will beat a CTS-V. Especially when you blow your rear all over the track. Maybe try some tact next time you post in here.

Big Jim,

I wouldn't look for any replies to direct questions. I'm still waiting for answers to this post.

I'd like the STS-V cheerleaders to help me with the following:

1) Do you agree that the STS-V is 1/4 mile stormer as stated by David? Or is it a road course warrior, allbeit 11 seconds slower than the CTS-V?

2) Do you feel that the $26,000 premium is warranted? Although it is cheaper than the M5 and E55.

3) Are you disappointed that the STS-V is slower than both the new M5 and E55? Or do you see this as a selling point?

4) Does it bother you that the STS and CTS look nearly identical to the untrained eye? And even for car enthusiasts it's a minimum of a double take?

5) If the goal of the STS-V is not to race and win 1/4 mile or road courses and it's OK to be bested by M5's and E55's why not just stay with the V8 STS and save the $12,000 bucks for something more practical?

I'd really like to hear from a true STS-V buyer. No more "if I had the money" or defenders of the faith or those with hurt feelings because some CTS-V owners won't tow the company line with regard to all Cadillac models. I'd like to know what the value equation of the STS-V buyer is. What are you looking for in a car, what do you hope to get out of the STS-V? You can PM me if you wish and take the conversation off-line.

I know somebody out there is as enthusiastic about the STS-V the way us early buyers of CTS-V's like Reed, Rick, Urby, Chris, Doug and others were. I'd like to hear from you.

Let me try this one.

1. For a big luxury car it is indeed a road course warrior. And like I said, the STS-V will finish the 1/4 quicker than the CTS-V stock for stock.

2. Is the CTS-V really worth the price when you could pick up a GTO and save yourself damn near $20k? Yeah? Well for similar reasons plenty of people should think the STS-V is worth the extra.

3. But I thought you CTS guys were arguing that we hadn't seen any real performance numbers from the STS-V? Jim was. Oh, I get it, it only matters if the STS-V is slower than an E55 and M5 but not if it's faster than your precious CTS.

4. The driver sure as hell can tell the difference. That's what counts because that's who pays. I learned to tell them apart the first week the STS was out. Not my fault you can't see.

5. See #1.

You're not just "not towing the line," you're talking shit about the car because you can't see past your CTS-V.

You don't understand the fact that the STS-V isn't designed to be an enthusiast car like the CTS-V is. If it were, it would have a Chevy motor and a manual. You're an enthusiast so you think it's a piece of crap. I'm an enthusiast but I think it's more practical to have a stock daily and a fast weekend car so I can appreciate the refinement of the STS-V.

 

[davesdeville]

Well, we'll just wait and see what numbers it puts up when it's released. You can't go around saying it's not up to par without it even being released yet, and that's what you've been doing.

 

[davesdeville]

How could we, we're faster and still have luxury implemented in our cars. It's because there's some ignorance coming from the STS-V fans on identifying the cars real purpose.

Even some of your fellow CTS-V owners recognize the STS-V is gonna be quicker on acceleration. Which, btw, is why I see the need to pick up an STS-V over a STS V8 - the CTS-V crowd are the enthusiasts who will take their car to the road course and dragstrip, the STS-V owners are less likely to do that but everybody pulls up at a stoplight now and then.

 

[davesdeville]

Keep thinking that the STS-V is going to be faster than a stock CTS-V at the light. When a stock CTS-V smokes you tell us all about how you got killed. However, if the CTS-V gets smoked, we'll make the playing field even. Meaning, a supercharged CTS-V against your supercharged STS-V. Obviously STS-V will be no contest. So in the long run, CTS-V has more potential if you want to get into a stoplight contest.

This is exactly what a few of you CTS-V guys aren't getting. The CTS-V is the enthusiasts car, it's the one you run headers and an aftermarket supercharger on because it's got a Chevy engine in it. The STS-V isn't nearly as much of an enthusiasts car. It's faster stock for stock, and that's probably going to be good enough for whoever bought it.

 

[davesdeville]

^^That would make it more of an enthusiast type car, however it would repel buyers who want an exclusive DOHC motor. I WILL NOT get into the "pushrod is just as good as DOHC" argument, because it's irrelevant, some buyers just want DOHC.

 

[davesdeville]

I continue to hear all this talk about an "enthusiast" and that this car or that car is an "enthusiast's car," but I suppose I'm confused... What on earth does it mean to be an "enthusiast's car?" What--that I am an ardent supportor of Cadillac? That I have a strong liking for the car?? :wtf:

And I don't believe that Cadillac should settle for "good enough" with its V-series cars.

I'm saying an "enthusiast" is the type who will supercharge their CTS-V, run headers, etc... What's so hard to get?

Does it really matter how Cadillac achieves the HP? Whether Corvette engine or DOHC? Aren't the numbers the most important aspect with buyers who want bragging rights?

It doesn't matter to ME, but then again it tends to with people buying an $80k car for whatever reason.

 

[davesdeville]

Why don't you look up the definition of the word "enthusiast" and you might understand, for that surely isn't how I would define it.

If I understand correctly, you are basically claiming that an enthusiast is someone who will modify their cars to perform better. Well, I have a news bulletin for you: if you believe that many STS-V owners won't modify their STS-Vs, you are really kidding yourself because I can guarantee they are out there.

There are going to be FAR more people modifying CTS-Vs than STS-Vs. For obvious reasons - the Chevy motor with all its aftermarket. With 2000 cars plus a few XLR-Vs, how many people do you honestly think are going to make performance parts for the S/C N* cars?