I am very interested to know how that turns out.
Steering Box Conversion
Gonna pick up an old WS6 steering box for my 78 Fleetwood. Wanted to know if anybody has made the conversion, and if so How do you like it?
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
I know somebody on the impala forums did it, I'll let you know next week when I get it in. The car is still at the trans shop getting the TH400 built up.
What year box? That matters. 78 is English, 80-up is Metric. So a 92 WS6 box is best, but make sure you have a power steering hose off of a 80-up FW (Check PN's at Autozone.com or some place like that to see the break points in PN's for the hoses) and then you will need a line adapter fitting from the 80-up pump for your 79 and older pump.
How do I know? I put a 70 pump in my 80 T/A and my 80 hose wouldn't work, so I pulled the fitting where the line connects to the pump out and put the one in from my 80 pump in (into the 70 pump) and it worked perfectly. NO issues.
So what I see in summary. You will need the 80-up B/D Body hose, which is the metric fitting, and a metric line fitting from the 80-up pump to put in your 78 pump.
BUT, only if the lines don't fit into the WS6 box. If they do, forget everything I said.....
Be aware, the WS6 box is a constant ratio, 2.25 turns lock to lock. So at higher speeds it might be twitchy compared to the stock variable ratio box.
I HATE variable ratio boxes.....
How do I know? I put a 70 pump in my 80 T/A and my 80 hose wouldn't work, so I pulled the fitting where the line connects to the pump out and put the one in from my 80 pump in (into the 70 pump) and it worked perfectly. NO issues.
So what I see in summary. You will need the 80-up B/D Body hose, which is the metric fitting, and a metric line fitting from the 80-up pump to put in your 78 pump.
BUT, only if the lines don't fit into the WS6 box. If they do, forget everything I said.....
Be aware, the WS6 box is a constant ratio, 2.25 turns lock to lock. So at higher speeds it might be twitchy compared to the stock variable ratio box.
I HATE variable ratio boxes.....
The box is from an 87. so...just to summarize...
I need the 80's up metric line fittings to thread into the 87 WS6 box?
I need the 80's up metric line fittings to thread into the 87 WS6 box?
Right, and you can say goodbye to one finger steering, The WS6 box is definetly "high effort".The box is from an 87. so...just to summarize...
I need the 80's up metric line fittings to thread into the 87 WS6 box?
Have fun wrestling with the steering wheel in low speed manevering, parking, etc.
oke:
I can bench close to 400 lbs, i'm sure i'll be able to park just fine...:showoff:Right, and you can say goodbye to one finger steering, The WS6 box is definetly "high effort".
Have fun wrestling with the steering wheel in low speed manevering, parking, etc.
I appreciate the lookout...but as a lead footed driver I prefer the "High effort" steering feel compared to the current land yacht feel the car has now. I'm used to driving sporty cars and trucks so even when I'm cruising the Caddy I can't help but manuever through slower traffic the same way, and as fun as the old school steering is I can't help but imagine i'd be a little safer with a more responsive steering box.
If you like a lot of road feedback then have your caster set a few degrees higher than the factory specification. A little less caster on the LH side and you are good to go on the highway.
I have my caster set to 4.5 degrees, wish I could get more with the 94's variable assist, there is plenty of easy turning, wish I had a high effort box....
If I Get a 78 WS6 box will it bolt right up?I have my caster set to 4.5 degrees, wish I could get more with the 94's variable assist, there is plenty of easy turning, wish I had a high effort box....
I am 99% sure yes, IF, they are both Saginaw 800 boxes. The Saginaw 600's are goofy and don't always directly interchange with the 800s.
Some good reading here: http://www.classicperform.com/tech_articles/turn-turn-turn/turn-turn-turn.htm
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0512phr_1976_chevrolet_camaro_steering_box_install/ (remember, your 78 front suspension is identical to the same year F Body. And most everything else 70-81 F, 73-77 A/G, 71-76 B/C/D and 77-96 B/D. The differences are primarily in the 1980 timeframe where Metric came into the picture. Even tie rods got a metric taper on the seats.
So here is a repost from Canuck:
Maybe this is of some help !
GM Box Interchange
A list of direct bolt-on boxes and some that need modifications. (Note this list refers to Saginaw 605 Power boxes but would probably apply to manual as well.
Interchange #706
Buick Special 64-70 Camaro 67-74 Chevelle 64-70
Chevy 65-70 Firebird 67-73 Grand Prix 69-70
Monte Carlo 70 Monza 75-79, 8cyl Monza 78-80,6cyl
Nova 68-70 Olds 64-70 F-85 64-70
Pontiac 64-70 Skyhawk 75-80 Starfire 75
Starfire 76-80, 6 cyl Starfire 77-79, 8cyl Sunbird 76-80
Tempest 64-70
Fast Ratio Box: 20/1 # 7806396 Cast No. 5679142
Monza/Vega Box: 16/1 # 7819935
On some 64-70 the drag link hole on the pitman arm may need to be enlarged.
The following boxes will fit but may need to have the pitman arm and/or the rag joint changed or and extra bolt hole boss taked off the steering box. Make sure you compare the input shaft length or the length from the bolt holes to the end of the input shaft to your power box.
Interchange #999
Apollo 73-75 Omega 73-79
Chevelle 71-77 Skylark 75-79
Monte Carlo 71 Regal 73-74
F-85 71-72 Nova 71-79
Lemans 72-77 Cutlass 76
Ventura 71-77 Phoenix 77-79
Century 73-74 Tempest 71
GMC Sprint 71-77
Cutlass 73
Interchange #989
AMC Ambassador 70-2
AMC 77-80
AMC Spirit 79-83
AMC Hornet 70-77
AMC Concord 78-83
AMC Matador 71-76
AMC Gremlin 70-78
Interchange #1034
Jeepster 72
Jeep 73-83
Jeep CJ & DJ 72
Jeep CJ 84-86
List was derived from Hollander Interchange Manual
Fast ratio Power Steering- Saginaw 605
Use box from 1977-81 Camaro/Firebird with disc brakes (or any 800 series box used in Novas, full size GM, etc), gives approx 3 turns lock to lock, versus original power steering 4.5 turns.
All later model boxes require the 1964 - 72 Chevelle pitman PS arm (required change) when used on earlier Chevelles.
Steering shaft comes in two diameters, get the appropriate flex coupling lower half in the same style as original to match the boxes shaft.
1982 or 86 to 92 Comaro Z-28/firebird Trans-AM are 2 turns (12:1) lock to lock, Use original end cap to get the right stops on 2 turn boxes to decrease turning radius.
Later model boxes (1980 and up) use “O” rings instead of flared input and output lines.
Later model internals can be swapped into early boxes to eliminate problems with line fittings and stops or pump can be modified by changing outlet valve (this requires verification) or swapped to accept "O" ring hosed.
If you are looking at a conversion for a 3x5, I have some dat aon that as well, let me know.
_________________
Scrap metal made....while you wait!
Some good reading here: http://www.classicperform.com/tech_articles/turn-turn-turn/turn-turn-turn.htm
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0512phr_1976_chevrolet_camaro_steering_box_install/ (remember, your 78 front suspension is identical to the same year F Body. And most everything else 70-81 F, 73-77 A/G, 71-76 B/C/D and 77-96 B/D. The differences are primarily in the 1980 timeframe where Metric came into the picture. Even tie rods got a metric taper on the seats.
So here is a repost from Canuck:
Maybe this is of some help !
GM Box Interchange
A list of direct bolt-on boxes and some that need modifications. (Note this list refers to Saginaw 605 Power boxes but would probably apply to manual as well.
Interchange #706
Buick Special 64-70 Camaro 67-74 Chevelle 64-70
Chevy 65-70 Firebird 67-73 Grand Prix 69-70
Monte Carlo 70 Monza 75-79, 8cyl Monza 78-80,6cyl
Nova 68-70 Olds 64-70 F-85 64-70
Pontiac 64-70 Skyhawk 75-80 Starfire 75
Starfire 76-80, 6 cyl Starfire 77-79, 8cyl Sunbird 76-80
Tempest 64-70
Fast Ratio Box: 20/1 # 7806396 Cast No. 5679142
Monza/Vega Box: 16/1 # 7819935
On some 64-70 the drag link hole on the pitman arm may need to be enlarged.
The following boxes will fit but may need to have the pitman arm and/or the rag joint changed or and extra bolt hole boss taked off the steering box. Make sure you compare the input shaft length or the length from the bolt holes to the end of the input shaft to your power box.
Interchange #999
Apollo 73-75 Omega 73-79
Chevelle 71-77 Skylark 75-79
Monte Carlo 71 Regal 73-74
F-85 71-72 Nova 71-79
Lemans 72-77 Cutlass 76
Ventura 71-77 Phoenix 77-79
Century 73-74 Tempest 71
GMC Sprint 71-77
Cutlass 73
Interchange #989
AMC Ambassador 70-2
AMC 77-80
AMC Spirit 79-83
AMC Hornet 70-77
AMC Concord 78-83
AMC Matador 71-76
AMC Gremlin 70-78
Interchange #1034
Jeepster 72
Jeep 73-83
Jeep CJ & DJ 72
Jeep CJ 84-86
List was derived from Hollander Interchange Manual
Fast ratio Power Steering- Saginaw 605
Use box from 1977-81 Camaro/Firebird with disc brakes (or any 800 series box used in Novas, full size GM, etc), gives approx 3 turns lock to lock, versus original power steering 4.5 turns.
All later model boxes require the 1964 - 72 Chevelle pitman PS arm (required change) when used on earlier Chevelles.
Steering shaft comes in two diameters, get the appropriate flex coupling lower half in the same style as original to match the boxes shaft.
1982 or 86 to 92 Comaro Z-28/firebird Trans-AM are 2 turns (12:1) lock to lock, Use original end cap to get the right stops on 2 turn boxes to decrease turning radius.
Later model boxes (1980 and up) use “O” rings instead of flared input and output lines.
Later model internals can be swapped into early boxes to eliminate problems with line fittings and stops or pump can be modified by changing outlet valve (this requires verification) or swapped to accept "O" ring hosed.
If you are looking at a conversion for a 3x5, I have some dat aon that as well, let me know.
_________________
Scrap metal made....while you wait!
I had an '82 Trans Am PS box in my 81 CDV for many years. It was a big improvement over the factory box but I didn't kinow about the end cap trick to get the steering radius down. Later Fleetwood boxes seem to be every bit as good as that Trans Am box was. My '80 Fleetwood Brougham has a real nice ratio factory setup. It's not easy to find certain GM rag joints these days either. Some have to be purchased with a whole jackshaft.
Wow!! Girls must like you!!I can bench close to 400 lbs, i'm sure i'll be able to park just fine...:showoff:
I appreciate the lookout...but as a lead footed driver I prefer the "High effort" steering feel compared to the current land yacht feel the car has now. I'm used to driving sporty cars and trucks so even when I'm cruising the Caddy I can't help but manuever through slower traffic the same way, and as fun as the old school steering is I can't help but imagine i'd be a little safer with a more responsive steering box.
LOL
I never realized the end caps were where the stops where, that is always the issue in the 70-81 F body boxes, they have stops that keep you from turning too tight due to steering linkage interference.
I had an '82 Trans Am PS box in my 81 CDV for many years. It was a big improvement over the factory box but I didn't kinow about the end cap trick to get the steering radius down. Later Fleetwood boxes seem to be every bit as good as that Trans Am box was. My '80 Fleetwood Brougham has a real nice ratio factory setup. It's not easy to find certain GM rag joints these days either. Some have to be purchased with a whole jackshaft.
:2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Been with my wife for 6 years...wouldn't matter if they do or don't. LOL.:alchi:
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Double thanks Nodih and for the countless information you've given me over the years. I'll let you know how I make out when it's done. I got the 79 box so far...hopefully that's all I need.:2thumbs: :2thumbs:
From time to time I visit parts stores and have them pull parts to examine, like the PS hoses. Get them for the box you have, the car you have and the pump you have, see what fits right fitting wise.
It should be pretty good. The 70-81 F cars had stops that hurt most cars, so they often get avoided, but if they stops are in the end cap, that might make it easy to "fix" too. But an 87 WS6 box shouldn't have any stops and work well for you.
I try to help as much as I can, I guess those piles and piles of magazines and FSM's pays off in something.... My wife hates them still, but they are a wealth of info. Especially the old ones that are era specific, like LT1 and 80's and 70's, (ok, we will skip the custom van era and the pinto's and vegas, and try to forget about the the Pacer buildups........)
It should be pretty good. The 70-81 F cars had stops that hurt most cars, so they often get avoided, but if they stops are in the end cap, that might make it easy to "fix" too. But an 87 WS6 box shouldn't have any stops and work well for you.
I try to help as much as I can, I guess those piles and piles of magazines and FSM's pays off in something.... My wife hates them still, but they are a wealth of info. Especially the old ones that are era specific, like LT1 and 80's and 70's, (ok, we will skip the custom van era and the pinto's and vegas, and try to forget about the the Pacer buildups........)
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
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