Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
2002 Cadillac Deville DTS
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2002 Deville DTS It usually crank right up when i turn the key but now I have to keep turning the ignition over for 5-10 seconds to get it to crank. once the engine is warmed up it will crank with just the turn of the key without holding it .Would that be the starter going bad or the relay? The starter is not dragging and seems to be turning over strong. Just wondering what this could be before take it to the shop. Is it possible to be a injector problem cause it turn over like its not getting gas?? Kind of confused because it will fire right up when the engine is warm to hot.
 

·
Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
Joined
·
19,261 Posts
Re: Starting Problem 2002 Deville DTS

I have a 2002 Deville DTS It usually crank right up when i turn the key but now I have to keep turning the ignition over for 5-10 seconds to get it to crank. once the engine is warmed up it will crank with just the turn of the key without holding it .Would that be the starter going bad or the relay? The starter is not dragging and seems to be turning over strong. Just wondering what this could be before take it to the shop. Is it possible to be a injector problem cause it turn over like its not getting gas?? Kind of confused because it will fire right up when the engine is warm to hot.
----------------------------
anytime something isn't right with almost anything on the car -
your first step should be to check for Diagnostic Trouble Codes -

if you don't know how - go here and read the ENTIRE post -

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-deville-1985-2005-including-1985/138257-how-pull-codes-dtcs.html

if you have any codes - post them here -
ALONG WITH THEIR DEFINITIONS -

------------
Would that be the starter going bad or the relay
all the starter does is spin the engine -
if it does that when you turn the key - the starter is OK -

there are several things that COULD cause longer "cranking-time" before the engine starts -

lack of fuel pump pressure at start-up -
leaking fuel injectors flooding the cylinders when engine shut off -
vacuum leaks -
weak spark -

how many miles are on the car -

how many miles since the last tune-up -

what is the fuel pump pressure at the fuel rail with key on - engine off -
what is the fuel pump pressure at idle -

and a million other questions -
 

·
Super Moderator
White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
Joined
·
86,781 Posts
Re: Starting Problem 2002 Deville DTS

I have a 2002 Deville DTS It usually crank right up when i turn the key but now I have to keep turning the ignition over for 5-10 seconds to get it to crank.
This is a little ambiguous. I read this as you have to turn the key for 5-10 seconds before you get contact to the starter and the engine cranks. Is that correct or are you trying to say that you "crank" for 5-10 seconds before the engine starts?
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
68,438 Posts
When you get in and turn the key ON, what is the outside temperature shown in the DIC message bar ? (If the ambient temperature sensor is faulty then the "electronic choke" - various signals to the PCM - cannot properly add fuel for a cold rich start.)
 

·
Registered
2004 Deville DTS
Joined
·
59 Posts
I have this same issue. I assumed it is a bad starter. Sub if its what you say than what is the solution? I have starter purchased and should be receiving it this week sometime. If it is something else I will just save the starter for when it does go. My 04 Deville has 136K on it. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
2004 Deville DTS
Joined
·
59 Posts
Installed starter this weekend. Wasn't bad at all and this is a guy who is a newbie and doesn't change his own oil. Not that I can't but my mechanic is a good friend of mine. I will say that the write up's on how to do this were pretty influential. They did miss one thing for me and that was how to take off those fuel injector connectors! I spent like 20 minutes trying to figure that out. For those other newbies that might read up on how to do this. Lift the grey cap up on the side of the fuel injector connector and then you have to squeeze the very top of the connector. It will pop straight up and off. It does give instructions on the side of the cap too. This was a little hard to see when I was doing it. Something so simple but no one ever discussed it. Hope it helps. Car starts great now.
 

·
Registered
2004 Deville DTS
Joined
·
59 Posts
Ok starting issue back. It is not the starter since it is brand new. To me it seems like the car does not have enough fuel pressure to start the car. If i give it some gas while starting it starts right up. Could this be a bad fuel pressure regulator. I did just replace the fuel pump but with a cheap aftermarket. Could be that. I bought the ACDelco fuel pump since then since the new cheap fuel pump reads about a quarter of a tank off from what it should be. Any ideas?
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
68,438 Posts
You can rent a fuel pressure test gauge at most any large parts store. It attaches to the test port (Schrader valve with black screw cap) on the fuel rail. GM spec for that car is 41 - 47 psi at Key: ON.

The FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator) is the domed thingy on the fuel rail - attached vacuum line - check the regulator nipple for gas, should be completely dry. Check the vacuum line for leaks. If broken, it may be replaced - rubber connectors and all - with a single piece of proper sized vacuum tubing from any parts store. The FPR is retained by a hairclip affair. If you replace it, smear a drop of engine oil on the upper and lower O-rings.
 

·
Super Moderator
White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
Joined
·
86,781 Posts
If i give it some gas while starting it starts right up.
Technically, you are giving it air, not gas. Give the TB a good cleaning. If that doesn't help, then pull the IAC valve and clean the air passage. The IAC valve rarely needs cleaning and I'd bet the TB cleaning will solve your problem. There is a tutorial in Tech Tips if you need it.
 

·
Registered
2004 Deville DTS
Joined
·
59 Posts
Thanks Ranger and Sub. I checked the fuel pressure regulator at idle and no gas leaking. Leads me to think that it is the cheap fuel pump. I completely cleaned the throttle body when I put the brand new starter in. Not sure what the IAC valve is but I thought my problem was related to fuel pressure and the car not having enough pressure in the system to start the car on the first turn. Car does start with the use of some gas from the gas pedal at start up.
 

·
Super Moderator
White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
Joined
·
86,781 Posts
If the fuel pump was weak enough to cause a no start situation, it would be too weak to ever start much less run the engine.

The IAC valve controls you idle, thus the name (Idle Air Control).

This is what it looks like.


And this is where it is.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
98 eldo/KD54 w/N37,T96,QA1,D55,DS3,U1Z. U3R next
Joined
·
2,125 Posts
The fuel pump is weak, you can have pressure and little to no volume.

Without compression, fuel and spark you will not start the car, much less idle. The iac is not the issue.

----------

Spray carburetor cleaner or starting fluid into the throttle body and it feels like its going to run, you have a fuel related issue
 

·
Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
Joined
·
19,261 Posts
Thanks Ranger and Sub. I checked the fuel pressure regulator at idle and no gas leaking. Leads me to think that it is the cheap fuel pump. I completely cleaned the throttle body when I put the brand new starter in. Not sure what the IAC valve is but I thought my problem was related to fuel pressure and the car not having enough pressure in the system to start the car on the first turn. Car does start with the use of some gas from the gas pedal at start up.
=================================
check for Diagnostic Trouble Codes -

if you don't know how - go here and read the ENTIRE post -

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-deville-1985-2005-including-1985/138257-how-pull-codes-dtcs.html

if you have any codes - post them here -
ALONG WITH THEIR DEFINITIONS -
 

·
Registered
2004 Deville DTS
Joined
·
59 Posts
Haven't had any suspicious codes. I check the DIC codes regularly and becoming quite familiar with their meanings. Only get a steering wheel position sensor, some radio codes, interior temp code, and driver and passenger door module codes. Nothing related to engine and fuel. I cleaned the throttle body inside and out when I replaced the starter. Next week, I will have my mechanic friend check the fuel pressure. I have read before about ignition relay or starter relay. Any possibility its a bad relay. Car drives great but wont start on first turn without giving it gas or unless the car has pressure already built up from driving it previously in the day.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top