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Just got home from my dyno facility baselining the car bone stock, pcm tune, volant CAI pcm tune and then a modded stock airbox and k&n panel filter with pcm tune.

bone stock= 335 rwhp/328 rwt
bone stock pcm tune= 340 rwhp/333 rwt
volant cai pcm tune= 344 rwhp/338 rwt
modded stock box k&n tune= 347 rwhp/341 rwt

these were the peak numbers from 3 runs per change. LSx engines make peak numbers generally on the third run before heat soak sets in.

05 V 4,900 miles
dynojet

Save your money on that piece (volant) of crap. BTW, my very first pull was 329 rwhp/324 rwt... bone stock... best pull with the volant/tune was 344 rwhp/338 rwt. The spread is 15 rwhp/14 rwt. This is how most aftermarket parts are tested. Use the worst base pull and the best pull tweaked. Ah, the joy's of marketing.
:jawdrop:
I'll be making a call to Volant in the morning for a call tag. Anyone want the specifics to the modded stock box?????
 

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It sure does....my Volant doesn't seem to bolt up very easily.



I ended up taking it off. Couldn't finish the install. No matter what I did, the snorkel makes contact with the radiator. Also, if I make it connect some how, the snorkel won't be straight with the MAF. I might try it again before I call it quits. I really want to see if there's an improvement or not.
 
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Staxxin said:
Frank,
You need to connect the snorkel to the air box before securing it to the radiator.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=505446&postcount=102

These instructions help me terrifically...

Good Luck!!!
Why go through the hassle for a $300 part that does not perform???????

If you compare the stock airbox to the volant and then look under the hood to where they reside. There is very little room for improvement over the stock design. We are limited to fresh air induction be sheetmetal surrounding the airbox by design. Just because the volant box has it's sides cut away means nothing. Those opened up sides still reside behind sheetmetal with very little cold air access.

With the airbox out of the way, remove the grill and you will get a better view to the stock rubber inlet boot etc. Cut that piece out, it's held by 2 rivets. That opens up one of the stock airbox (main) inlet tubes, take an exacto knife and cut a square hole in the plastic surround that resides in front of the other inlet tube on the stock box. If you look at the factory round hole in the box, it does not seem to draw fresh air from anywhere, yet volant makes this hole huge...... worthless. Eye appeal, nothing else. You now have as much cold fresh air as your going to get without cutting sheetmetal. I had a used c5 K&N filter laying around which fit the stock airbox width wise and we trimmed to fit lenght wise. The stock inlet elbow appears to be restictive and we tested the stocker against the volant piece, no change between the two. I hope this helps and saves you all a few hundred bucks for the same results.

BTW, on avg., there is not a TON of power to be picked with tuning on a stock car. Most LSx engines with stock manifolds like the A/F in the 12.2 to 12.4 range, factory is generally in the low 11's. Slight adj. to timing and that's about it. The big benefit is in the little things, settings you change... cags, fan temps, tq. management, cat overtemp, rev limiter etc.

I will most likely put LT's on the car with a custom catback (manufactuer to be named later:stirpot: :stirpot: C5 guy's will smile) and retune at each component change. Also, LSx engines make more power as they break in, I know this one has another 5 rwhp after a few more miles.

I hope this helps.
 

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Send me a PCM for dyno testing; there may be more than 5 hp to be found. :)

Better gains from a K&N in the stock air box? How about also improving the connection between it and the TB? Hmm...sounds like something familiar.
 

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I wondered why everyone jumped on that Volant bandwagon anyways. I mean when it came out everyone was all about it for some reason...Some sold their current CAIK to buy that one...

I never understood what all that was about anyways. :hmm:
 
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StealthV said:
Send me a PCM for dyno testing; there may be more than 5 hp to be found. :)

Better gains from a K&N in the stock air box? How about also improving the connection between it and the TB? Hmm...sounds like something familiar.
I guess if I wanted to be dishonest about it, I could have posted my 1st baseline run of 329 rwhp and the best tuned stock hardware run of 340 rwhp. Thats a nice 11 rwhp gain from just a tune....... BUT that's not a TRUE representation of THE tune. If your beating those numbers great...... but since this my 6th LSx vehicle from mild to wild, and having run the dyno on 100's of LSx cars and witnessed the same 100's of cars being tuned, well, all I can say is: these engines are very predictable. And yes, every now and then you come across a factory freak, not very often though, and I have never been lucky enough to own own.

The flip side, I have NEVER seen a mail order tune outperform a good tuner with the car on the dyno IN PERSON. What I HAVE witnessed are a ton of "secret" mail order tunes that suck. Yes, they do all the minor stuff, but they are nowhere close to being optimized for that particular car. Ed Wright, Brian Herter, TSP etc., I've used them and dynoed them, generic canned tunes. Can they tune in person on the dyno, hell yes, and if you call them and sound somewhat intelligent and ask the correct questions, they will tell you the same thing. Most people never take the time to tune their cars properly, they throw exhaust, CAI and a junk tune and think they are masters of the universe. Generally, for the money they spend, they have gained squat. Case in point: volant's intake, $300 for nothing.
 
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StealthV said:
Better gains from a K&N in the stock air box? How about also improving the connection between it and the TB? Hmm...sounds like something familiar.
If you read my post, I used the stock inlet and the volant inlet, no change. The stock 90' turn to the tbody is a pisser, but due to packaging, were stuck with it.
 

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10secvette said:
I guess if I wanted to be dishonest about it, I could have posted my 1st baseline run of 329 rwhp and the best tuned stock hardware run of 340 rwhp. Thats a nice 11 rwhp gain from just a tune....... BUT that's not a TRUE representation of THE tune. If your beating those numbers great...... but since this my 6th LSx vehicle from mild to wild, and having run the dyno on 100's of LSx cars and witnessed the same 100's of cars being tuned, well, all I can say is: these engines are very predictable. And yes, every now and then you come across a factory freak, not very often though, and I have never been lucky enough to own own.

The flip side, I have NEVER seen a mail order tune outperform a good tuner with the car on the dyno IN PERSON. What I HAVE witnessed are a ton of "secret" mail order tunes that suck. Yes, they do all the minor stuff, but they are nowhere close to being optimized for that particular car. Ed Wright, Brian Herter, TSP etc., I've used them and dynoed them, generic canned tunes. Can they tune in person on the dyno, hell yes, and if you call them and sound somewhat intelligent and ask the correct questions, they will tell you the same thing. Most people never take the time to tune their cars properly, they throw exhaust, CAI and a junk tune and think they are masters of the universe. Generally, for the money they spend, they have gained squat. Case in point: volant's intake, $300 for nothing.
That's why the Stealth version is different. It's actually been recalibrated from the ground up with 8000 to 10000 things changed depending on the package. Not just some tweaked tables here and there. There's more R&D time invested in it than GM spent when they did the V.

Send in your PCM...I'll actually recalibrate it for the Volant or whatever intake system you'd like. It'll gain more than 5 hp. And the part-throttle tuning, the secondary switchable valet mode, etc. is just icing on the cake. :thumbsup:
 

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10secvette said:
If you read my post, I used the stock inlet and the volant inlet, no change. The stock 90' turn to the tbody is a pisser, but due to packaging, were stuck with it.
The Volant and stock intake tube both suck compared to other options. My reference was to the FFV. It gained a solid 9+ hp using the same dyno strategy/theory of heat soak that you employed. Packaging can be overcome...:canttalk:
 

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Ill vouch for the Stealth FFV w/accompanying tune. Rick has provided a kick ass tune with an extensive questionaire that covers anything and everything you could think of. As for seat of the pants? no question there is a HUGE difference.
THANKS, STEALTH V!

F
 

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Great analysis!
Might I add that filter area is also determinative. The stock paper air filter is extraordinarily deep, meaning that it has a lot of filter area. The drop-in K&N filters that I have seen are not so deep, meaning less filter area. My understanding is that a paper and K&N flow about evenly on a per square inch basis when new, but the K&N pulls ahead as mileage accumulates.
There are differences in aftermarket K&N filter sizes and it makes sense to choose the largest size available.
Airbox size is also important. The larger the better.
Many tuners focus on exhaust changes, but the LS engine family is very reponsive to intake changes also. The results of changes are not so dramatic as headers and cat backs, but incrementally they add up.
I think that Stealth's metal intake tube is an important improvement.
Equally important may be throttle body changes. I was pleasantly surprised by the power increase obtained from a TPIS ported throttle body.
 

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I like the Volant personally. Sure I didnt install it but it looks good to me. As for dyno numbers before not sure on that, didn't get a base line unfortunatly. But the car put out 343 rwhp, with slight tune, ie not much at all done, torque management, and cags delete, and just minor stuff. Nothing along the Stealth V tune I am sure. But on a Dry NX 100shot, it was 458 rwhp. I think that is good if you ask me. Who if you don't mind me asking tuned the car ???? I will one day soon send mine off Stealth V to get tuned.
 
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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I did not start this thread to rain on StealthV's parade. If you guys are happy with his tune, great. I'm sure he does a great job.

I posted the info as a third party non biased h.p. junkie looking for more. I have no stake in the results except for the most bang for my buck. I'm also not trying to pump up my tuner, he works for one of the best c5 shops in the country, and has more work than he knows what to do with.(hence the Sunday favor to me) As I also stated in the above post's, I'm no rookie with his first v8. With that being said, unless you have baselined your car prior to ANY mods, and then have gone back to baseline results, you really have no clue what your mods have done, if anything. ( I just hung up with Volant, they claim 19 rwhp, the guy was studdering at the end of our chat) Seat of the pants is nothing. Lightening the wallet also "tunes" your butt dyno. As an example, by just altering the Tq. Management and Abuse Mode settings, the car will feel better, but nothing has been optimized.

Take the info for what it's worth.:canttalk:
 

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:thumbsup:
StealthV said:
That's why the Stealth version is different.
Ok, I’ll bite - what’s different


StealthV said:
It's actually been recalibrated from the ground up with 8000 to 10000 things changed depending on the package.
Wow, isn’t there only ~4,000 total tables in the entire PCM ? And, 70% of those tables have nothing to do with the engine, Right?

StealthV said:
Not just some tweaked tables here and there. There's more R&D time invested in it than GM spent when they did the V.
Wait a minute, how is that possible…please elaborate.


StealthV said:
Send in your PCM...I'll actually recalibrate it for the Volant or whatever intake system you'd like. It'll gain more than 5 hp.
Will that be 5 RWHP or flywheel? What about knock and knock retard if I have crappy low octane? Will you continue to tune this via mail until it’s right or do I pay each time?


StealthV said:
And the part-throttle tuning, the secondary switchable valet mode, etc. is just icing on the cake.
Don’t most tuners tune the VE tables for part throttle and tip-in? Do you have new tables you’ve added?
 
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Elridge said:
:thumbsup:

Ok, I’ll bite - what’s different




Wow, isn’t there only ~4,000 total tables in the entire PCM ? And, 70% of those tables have nothing to do with the engine, Right?


Wait a minute, how is that possible…please elaborate.




Will that be 5 RWHP or flywheel? What about knock and knock retard if I have crappy low octane? Will you continue to tune this via mail until it’s right or do I pay each time?



Don’t most tuners tune the VE tables for part throttle and tip-in? Do you have new tables you’ve added?
:golden:
BTW, my numbers are with California crap 91 octane gas. No octane boost and the corresponding bump in timing to make a FEW more rwhp on those "by my product" comparo's. Food for thought gentleman, it's your money, be an educated shopper.
 
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