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1996 DeVille, 1985 Brougham SAGE GREEN!
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As some of you already know,and some of you now know, me and Night Wolf are going to be having a drag race at the Tampa meet on the 21st of July (it WILL be videotaped and posted).

HT4100 VS. 307

I have the adavantage of having a lighter car 3898 vs. 4190.

Have only 75k miles vs. 200k miles+

3.42 vs. 2.56 rear end.

Has a chrome Holey air cleaner (lol)

I have 135hp and 200lb ft of torque stock. He has 140hp,not sure on torque #'s.


Sound like an even race?

Well i need a little more than that,so here is where the vast knowledge of my fellow CF members comes in:

I just had a fresh tune up,new plugs and wires, new o2 sensor,coolant sensor,new rear shocks.Also has a new Interstate battery,and i converted it to top-terminal instead of bullshit side-terminal. Its running absolutely perfect. Though i still think i have a problem with the TCC solenoid,as it is weird about downshifting and upshifting,especially with the A/C on. It shifts great under normal throttle and braking,but when coming to an abrupt stop,it jerks and lurches alot before it downshifts. And when trying to pull out in traffic with the A/C on,it hesitates ALOT before it downshifts and goes.

What are your thoughts on this?

I am going to replace my air filter,change my oil and get a transmission flush before i go to the meet. But i was also thinking about removing my catalyst and just welding in a pipe. There are no emissions/inspections here and my friends dads shop could do it.

A) Would this give me any more power at all?
B) Would this mess with the computer at all?
C) Will this hurt it?
D) Will it be any louder?

Also, is there ANY mods i can do to the HT4100 at all that will help it perform better. Messing with anything under the hood?In all seriousness.


Thanks for your help guys!
 

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Super Moderator
2014 ELR
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9,826 Posts
I will bet the 307 will kill you. Hope you don't hear any 4100 main bearing noises! I have, and they aren't nice. There is a GM reman 4100 in my mother's 84 FWB, and it went in at 55 000 miles...:tisk:
 
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Great match up, and safe too!. Cop sees it and he wont even think its a race as both these cars at full bore are like a regular car just coming up to speed.

In all seriousness, gearing should make this an interesting race. Rick is running 255 ft/lb torque compared to your 200 ft/lb. I say run stock vs. stock and let the faster car win. If Rick wins, you can re-negotiate the second run, this time you can ask for lengths.........hehe I watch to much PINKS!. There's always NOS. :bacon2:
 

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1996 DeVille, 1985 Brougham SAGE GREEN!
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2,750 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I will bet the 307 will kill you. Hope you don't hear any 4100 main bearing noises! I have, and they aren't nice. There is a GM reman 4100 in my mother's 84 FWB, and it went in at 55 000 miles...:tisk:

My car is almost 300 lbs lighter, has over One Hundred and Twenty Five THOUSAND less miles on it, has the better rear end,and hasnt been abused. Only has 5 less horsepower. How do you figure its going to "kill" me?

I have owned a beat up '88 Brougham, it was very similar to my HT4100,but had noticeably more "oomph" off the line.
 

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1996 DeVille, 1985 Brougham SAGE GREEN!
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Discussion Starter #5
Great match up, and safe too!. Cop sees it and he wont even think its a race as both these cars at full bore are like a regular car just coming up to speed.

In all seriousness, gearing should make this an interesting race. Rick is running 255 ft/lb torque compared to your 200 ft/lb. I say run stock vs. stock and let the faster car win. If Rick wins, you can re-negotiate the second run, this time you can ask for lengths.........hehe I watch to much PINKS!. There's always NOS. :bacon2:

Lengths? Heh,no way. Car VS. Car. He can do whatever he wants to his too.
 

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1992 Eldorado Touring
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It all depends on the condition of the transmission on both cars. If it is old and tired, that one race can do it in.

I have my money on the 307 :thumbsup: My wagon surprises me off the line.... NOT! But it does have 55 more ft/lbs of torque than the 4100, so that should do it.
 

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77 CDV, 06 DTS III, 69 FWB
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Jonas,

For the first 100 yards or so, Rick's greater torque will simply kill your poor 4100. After that, it depends on you two and how you each drive. Converting to a straight pipe exhaust will lessen back pressure and kick up your HP a couple points, but nothing outrageous. So, as long as you're going more than a couple hundred yards, either one of you could win. Race safe, please.

Craig
 

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'92 Brougham d'Elegance 305; '98 Seville STS
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490 Posts
Don't swap paint!
 

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1992 Town Car Cartier & 2014 Accord LX MTX
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This is gonna be some serious ****ing race action!

It's the 19 second club... haha! Like Destroyer said, no cop is gonna give out a ticket to either of you because your cars at WOT are like any modern car at 1/2 throttle.

But if his 307 is anything like that '90 D'Elegance I drove a while back (carb was in bad need of tune...sticky choke) an HT4100 in good tune would beat it. Between that '90 D'Elegance (131k miles) and an '84 Sedan deVille I drove (115k miles) the HT4100 was quicker with better throttle responce.
 

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1979 Coupe Deville, 1995 FWB & 6 Other Non-Cadillacs.
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Hope you don't hear any 4100 main bearing noises! I have, and they aren't nice. There is a GM reman 4100 in my mother's 84 FWB, and it went in at 55 000 miles...:tisk:
I agree. You should avoid racing the 4100 from a standstill. These old Caddies need to be pampered to survive. My 78 is completely rebuilt (every nut and bolt literally) and I would never even think of drag racing it. I drive it real f*#king fast( Post 100 at times), but I get there gradually.
 

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Sheesh, this is really getting turned into a big thing isn't it?

Heh...

transmission... my tranny was rebuilt about 4 or 5 years ago... she shifts hard and firm... its nice... I need to fix the speedo though as the torque converter never locks up (speed sensor on instrument cluster never gets signal)

New carb as of a few years ago

I have a kinda loud exhaust leak... cat needs to be replaced.

check engine light is on, as it has been since new.

My Brougham weighs 3900lbs or so, it said on the NYS title before I got the Georgia title... my '79 was 4,212 lbs and the Brougham is actually a good bit less weight. It does have a big old class 3? tow hitch on it.... help even out the weight balance issues, heh.

Anyway, I defintily want to race from a stop, as well as a roll.

I gotta do a tune up on the 307, she runs alright, but I know she needs a tune up.
 

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I agree. You should avoid racing the 4100 from a standstill. These old Caddies need to be pampered to survive. My 78 is completely rebuilt (every nut and bolt literally) and I would never even think of drag racing it. I drive it real f*#king fast( Post 100 at times), but I get there gradually.
I took my '79 to the drag strip... had around 88k miles at the time, mostly all stock... she ran a 17.5 @85mph
 

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1996 DeVille, 1985 Brougham SAGE GREEN!
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Discussion Starter #14
Jonas,

For the first 100 yards or so, Rick's greater torque will simply kill your poor 4100. After that, it depends on you two and how you each drive. Converting to a straight pipe exhaust will lessen back pressure and kick up your HP a couple points, but nothing outrageous. So, as long as you're going more than a couple hundred yards, either one of you could win. Race safe, please.

Craig
Thank you for being semi-serious about this. I know racing an HT4100 is laughable. Do you know if it will mess with the censors or computer at all?

And to those showing concern about my poor motor, i appreciate it, but i doubt im going to blow it. I am rough with my car at times. I often get on it HARD,not to the point of "abuse", but i dont treat it like an HT4100 should be treated. It has NEVER given me any problems at all,never hinted at overheating,never had any weird noises, has just purred like a kitten for the last 30k miles ive driven it. Oil changed every 3k-4k. One or two drag races isnt going to blow it up. Or maybe it will,just an excuse to get a second car and park the Brougham so i can start to restore it.


In all seriousness though, please refer to the first post in the thread and reply with any helpful info. Thanks again guys.
 

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01 STS, 92 Roadmaster, 01 SLS-sold, 88 Brougham-crushed
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My 307 is the 180 hp HO version. I know mine would do it......
Hey Dope, wanna drive down here and drag race me before I get rid of the car? :stirpot:

180 hp 88 brougham vs. 180 hp 89 brougham.

My autumn maple firemist paint will make mine faster though because it is faded and some of it has come off. You still have all that heavy a$$ paint on there. :thumbsup:
 

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If the 307 would beat the HT4100 off the line... I honestly don't think the HT4100 has enough HP in the mid-upper rev band to then start pulling on the 307.

If anything, I thought the HT4100 may have the jump due to gearing... but I guess the decent low RPM torque of the Olds engine may get it off the line pretty well.
 
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I know racing an HT4100 is laughable.
Not at all. Racing 2 well matched slow cars is just as much fun IMO as racing in 2 fast cars. The race element is still there, the desire to achieve your goal is still there and you will still have a good adrenalin rush if its real close. When I had my '99 GMC Conversion van I raced my buddies work van (not sure what year but it had a 5.4 liter Triton motor and was a Ford). I beat him and I had fun doing it. :thumbsup:
 

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94 FWB, 93 SDV, 94 FWB (sold), 90 Brougham (sold)
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3.42 x 200 = 684.
2.56 x 255 = 652.8.

Even if the shape of the torque curves of both engines was roughly the same, the Brougham would still win. There just isn't enough from the 4100 throughout the powerband to win. And since the Fleetwood only has 5 less horses but 55 less foot pounds, we know that the 4100 hits peak torque at a higher RPM than the 307 does. The 307 has this race.

Brian
 

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I've seen the 4100 in a mid 80's Eldorado lose to a 1997 Dodge Ram 3500... Diesel. Oh yea, and the truck had a bed full of furniture at the time. I'm going to lean towards the 307 just a bit, though the 2.56 pegleg is going to make it harder to launch.
 

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You guys might wanna go find some ricers running around in their umodified automatic mid '90s Civics and have them race you too, just to add to the excitement and thrill! Detroit iron v. jap crap!
 
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