[216caddypimp]

Ok I have an 85 Fleetwood D'Elegance and in my trunk my "spare sits in the back, so I have no choice but to sit my subs (when I get them) up close to the front.


My question is....

Should I get a "sealed" box and I want some hard thumpin bass, but I want clarity as well. I was thinking about getting 2 "12's". For those with the big caddy's what would be a good set-up, in my case?

Thanks

 

[Vesicant]

Ok I have an 85 Fleetwood D'Elegance and in my trunk my "spare sits in the back, so I have no choice but to sit my subs (when I get them) up close to the front.


My question is....

Should I get a "sealed" box and I want some hard thumpin bass, but I want clarity as well. I was thinking about getting 2 "12's". For those with the big caddy's what would be a good set-up, in my case?

Thanks

There is the option of getting a ported box.. then you take it and stuff it with sound insulation (cotton like fiber stuff) and it makes it "fake" like its actually a sealed box. Excellent results, and it still vents the air pressure built-up inside.

 

[up2ng]

One word for those who need lots of bass without much space.....Solo-Baric !

Kicker Solo-Baric Speakers

 

[90devilleguy]

One word for those who need lots of bass without much space.....Solo-Baric !

Kicker Solo-Baric Speakers

my friend has two of those in a ported box and they kick some serious bass, that is why i have demed him "Loudest Buick In The Town".

 

[SoundAdvantage]

Ok I have an 85 Fleetwood D'Elegance and in my trunk my "spare sits in the back, so I have no choice but to sit my subs (when I get them) up close to the front.


My question is....

Should I get a "sealed" box and I want some hard thumpin bass, but I want clarity as well. I was thinking about getting 2 "12's". For those with the big caddy's what would be a good set-up, in my case?

Thanks

I just checked out your ride on Car Domain> Those Big Body Caddy's like you have need at least two 12" subs and a nice 1000 watt amp IF you like a descent amount of bass. I would go with a sealed box for your subs>upgrade your factory deck with a good quality one with 3 sets of RCAs and I would run 4 guage wire and high quality RCA jacks to your amps, oh yea ditch the spare and replace it with a couple cans of fix-a-flat. I would also run an Electronic 3-way Crossover with a bass remote to your amps, and look for either a 600 watt 4ch or 800 watt 4ch amp for your highs. A two fuse block and a ground block should be part of your install as well. Let me know if you have any more questions about equipment ok. Here is a good site you can use as a reference to the Electronic end of your 12 volt system.
http://www.bcae1.com

 

[216caddypimp]

I just checked out your ride on Car Domain> Those Big Body Caddy's like you have need at least two 12" subs and a nice 1000 watt amp IF you like a descent amount of bass. I would go with a sealed box for your subs>upgrade your factory deck with a good quality one with 3 sets of RCAs and I would run 4 guage wire and high quality RCA jacks to your amps, oh yea ditch the spare and replace it with a couple cans of fix-a-flat. I would also run an Electronic 3-way Crossover with a bass remote to your amps, and look for either a 600 watt 4ch or 800 watt 4ch amp for your highs. A two fuse block and a ground block should be part of your install as well. Let me know if you have any more questions about equipment ok. Here is a good site you can use as a reference to the Electronic end of your 12 volt system.
http://www.bcae1.com

What's up Big Mike, thanks alot man for your advice. I went to Best Buy just to see what kinds of equipment I would need and like you the sales guy said I would need at least 12" subs (I saw some Fosgates) I think the the Fosgate box it came in was sealed or maybe it was ported, I saw so many I can't remember. I saw a I saw a good $200-$250 dollar radio with 3 sets of RCA's which he, like you recommended. He said I would probably blow the front and rear speakers, so I saw a nice a pair of rear speakers running about $100.00 and a nice pair of front speakers running about $90.00 I think they were Kenwoods. He said that I should get a seperate amp for the speakers, saw a nice Kenwood one, then they had a wiring kit for about $140.00. I'm not to sure about getting rid of the spare, because I've noticed that my tire would become heavily shredded and a spare came in handy (especially when my car blew a tire on the freeway 8 am during 9/11 and by the time I had it fixed and drove back to my house the freeway was congested as folks drove quickly to their homes and I doubt they would stop to help a Black guy on the free-way ).

The subwoofer looks like this one (I don't know what 4 Ohms or 8 Ohms is or what is the difference between the two) http://http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1069302879271&skuId=6252459&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03081

But again thanks for your advice I will be printng this page and taking it with me before I decide what to purchase. Also thanks for the link to the site.

 

[davesdeville]

The subwoofer looks like this one (I don't know what 4 Ohms or 8 Ohms is or what is the difference between the two) http://http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1069302879271&skuId=6252459&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03081

Ohms are very important, fyi. An ohm is a measurement of resistance, so an 8 ohm sub is twice as hard for an amp to push power through compared with a 4 ohm, so an amp can only push half as much power through an 8 ohm as compared with a 4 ohm. So the lower the ohm rating, the easier an amp can push power through it, but amps get hotter as they push more power and this is why you don't see many amps that are stable at 1 ohm or lower.

Another point is that if you hook 2 4 ohm subs in serial (in a series), they will have an 8 ohm load. If you hook 2 4 ohm subs in paralell, they will have a 2 ohm load. This is useful if you have a mono amp that's stable to 2 ohms, and 2 4 ohm subs (which is a very common setup, in fact I have this setup) or something similar.

 

[D148L0]

an amp can only push half as much power through an 8 ohm as compared with a 4 ohm.

I agree with you, your post mentiones the correct basics. However, the quoted statement is not accurate. It is not necessarily half as much power when you go from 4 to 8, as is not necessarily twice as much if you go from 4 to 2.

 

[SoundAdvantage]

sealed is nice, its less hit or miss than ported, but ported boxes have lower bass extension. that 3db that you can gain is a big deal. it can mean a lot when you are looking to hit say a 35hz tone. the sealed box is real easy to make, takes up less space but for overall listening quality the ported is the way to go. you gotta know what you are doing a whole lot more with the ported setup. i personally like both sealed and ported. ive built hundreds of boxes both ways. some drivers require a ported box because of the xmax and air that they push from the back of the cone. in most cases if you are inexpierienced you should just go with sealed. usually .75- 1.25 cu. ft. is sufficient for a 10" or 12." anymore questions feel free to ask. peace

Thanx for your input, and the rest of you guy's too I am getting ready to do a New Install in my Caddy. I have the old system out and my trunk is once again Empty. This thread and everyones input has gave me a great idea. I can fit Four 12s in my trunk>no problem, but then i have a decent amount of wasted space from where the magnets of my 6x9s stop the forward sealed box. So i thought i would build a Ported box for a single 12" sub and Port it directly in through the rear seats arm rest. That single 12 will have it's own amp that would run most of the time. Then the two Sealed enclosures that hold the four 12s would have 2 amps going to them on switches, with the dvc subs wired at 2 ohms. This way i would have the best of both worlds and be able to eliminate massive amounts of continuous "Current Draw" on my Alt. I will have to take my 4 ga. wire out and run new 0 ga. wire to a digital 4 fuse Block to run the 4 amps which include the amp for my highs. I will be working with one big Square port for the single 12" sub. P E A C E

 

[SoundAdvantage]

Sealed. No question about it. Nowadays you can buy a single sub (and the amp to match it) that handles more power and more efficiently than 4 subs just a few years ago. You can have both SPL and the SQ you can only get from a sealed enclosure.

Bandpass are great enclosures as well. Sure, they can make a lousy sub sound "ok", but they can also make a good sub sound superb. Only thing, the enclosure has to be perfectly built. By the way, some of the finest subs in the car audio industry are specifically designed for bandpass enclosures...

Ported... sure, if you prefer loudness over quality.

Hmmm Im Not sure i agree with you on a Bandpass can make a good sub sound "superb" I haven't heard ANY that impressed me including MTXs Almighty 9500 series sub in their ported enclosure for $700.00

 

[Mystical_Ice]

Sealed.
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Ok I have an 85 Fleetwood D'Elegance and in my trunk my "spare sits in the back, so I have no choice but to sit my subs (when I get them) up close to the front.


My question is....

Should I get a "sealed" box and I want some hard thumpin bass, but I want clarity as well. I was thinking about getting 2 "12's". For those with the big caddy's what would be a good set-up, in my case?

Thanks

Yeah, the first car i started working on the system on was my 1980 fleetwood. however, learn from my experience and errors :

1) Don't buy subwoofers at best buy. Not only do they only stock a few names, but the prices are too high. to buy your equipment, either do it online, or go to your local family-owned car audio store. stay away from the big names (Best Buy, Circuit City, Car Toys, Tweeter, etc.)

2a) Our cadillacs trunks are sealed like tanks. between the trunk and the cab is about an inch of insulation, steel, and then the back seat, etc. if you just put subs in the trunk, you're hardly going to hear (or feel) anything in the cab, just vibrations from the quarter panels and the lid of the trunk and the license plate rattling.

2b) Consider dynamatting the shit out of your trunk. particularly the lid, and the sides... those are what suffer the most.

3) Don't worry about blowing your speakers just running them off the head unit. i did that on my 1980 for close to two years without incident. then i started driving it daily more often, and i got sick of the sound, so i replaced the stock paper-cone speakers with aftermarket. even if for a while you just run your speakers (aftermarket) off the headunit, you'll still notice a drastic change in sound, they get louder and MUCH clearer. adding an amp at a later stage will help even more, depending on which speakers you get.

You're going to have a hard time getting quality bass in the cab without some work... what i considered doing (i might still do it in the future) is put two 8" subs in the back deck (where the 6x9s are at the moment), that way you can still have your spare, etc. thing is, while you'll have amazing clarity, you're not going to be able to hit loud and deep like you want too. right now i have two 15s in the trunk, in seperate boxes, because i wanted to keep my spare. (i'm selling the 15s if you're interested. i'm going for clarity now, and while my 15s are pretty good compared to other 15s as far as clarity goes, it's still too much distorted bass for me, and i'm not going to build a better box. i want to start over)

The spare really screws things up, because it's in the worst possible place. And removing it gives you more room, but where the spare sits, the trunk "slopes" up, so you'd have to custom design the box, not just sit a square one.

what everyone has told you is right. don't get a 10" sub and put it in the trunk, you'll hear absolutely nothing. 12"+ (i recommend 15s) would be perfect. you may want to consider cutting a hole behind your back seat too. one of my friends has an 1987 fleetwood, and he has two 12s in the trunk (Pioneer). they hit hard, but one day he cut out about two square feet of metal from behind the back seat (a hole that leads right into the trunk) and the subs hit HAARRRDDDD! so depending on your setup, you may want to consider doing that. no one would know from the outside, unless if you put the back armrest down, then you'll just see a gaping hole

 

[D148L0]

don't get a 10" sub and put it in the trunk, you'll hear absolutely nothing. 12"+ (i recommend 15s) would be perfect.

Subwoofer size by itself does not make any difference in the amount of sound you can hear.
Explain me how a difference in diameter can make a difference in dB.
And don't say is a matter of personal taste. This is physics and audio basics.

 

[davesdeville]

I agree with you, your post mentiones the correct basics. However, the quoted statement is not accurate. It is not necessarily half as much power when you go from 4 to 8, as is not necessarily twice as much if you go from 4 to 2.

Generally it is. If an amp's rated at 400w at 4ohm, it will run 800w at 2ohm. The exceptions to this generalization are when an amp would overheat or maybe distort if it were pushing 800w at 2ohm, so the manufacturer keeps the power lower.

Subwoofer size by itself does not make any difference in the amount of sound you can hear.
Explain me how a difference in diameter can make a difference in dB.
And don't say is a matter of personal taste. This is physics and audio basics.

You're right, but keep in mind that majority of the time 15s are rated to handle more power than 10s.

 

[D148L0]

Generally it is. If an amp's rated at 400w at 4ohm, it will run 800w at 2ohm. The exceptions to this generalization are when an amp would overheat or maybe distort if it were pushing 800w at 2ohm, so the manufacturer keeps the power lower.

Exactly. Generally it is. Just to add another exception, regulation of the power supply also will modify the "doubling" rule.

You're right, but keep in mind that majority of the time 15s are rated to handle more power than 10s.

I agree. I was just waiting for Mystical's reply before making myself clear. There is a couple of common misconceptions I would like to talk about. I hope you can cooperate in the discussion.

 

[Mystical_Ice]

There is a couple of common misconceptions

are*

Subwoofer size by itself does not make any difference in the amount of sound you can hear.
Explain me how a difference in diameter can make a difference in dB.
And don't say is a matter of personal taste. This is physics and audio basics.

well obviously there's exceptions. if he wants to go ahead and a 10" W7, or other high-end: high-power-handling sub(s) in, then yeah *shrugs* but for the most part, for the cars we have, and for the majority of subs out there, i'd recommend something 12" or higher.

 

[D148L0]

well obviously there's exceptions. if he wants to go ahead and a 10" W7, or other high-end: high-power-handling sub(s) in, then yeah *shrugs* but for the most part, for the cars we have, and for the majority of subs out there, i'd recommend something 12" or higher.

There is no need to go high-end. There are plenty of high power handling 10s for every budget. As a matter of fact, the maker of the subs in your pictures offers an 8" that handles as much power as a 12" from the same brand, and it is not one their expensive models.


Now, some basics:

First common misconception: bigger means louder.

How loud a woofer is depends on the power it handles, and how effective it is to use that power (efficiency). NOT on it's size. Bigger woofers were made to satisfy the need of properly reproduce lower frecuencies, which require more power to be produced.

If we follow the old bigger = more power handling concept, at a given power a 10" is more likely to sound louder than a 15".
In other words, a 100W amplifier will make a 120W 10" sound louder than a 160W 15".
In the other hand, let's say you have a 10" and a 15" that have the same power handling and efficiency. At a given power, they will be equally loud.
The frecuency range at which they are loud is what changes depending on their size.

With the power handling of today's subwoofers, more than ever the correct approach to recommend one is to know the kind of music they are intended for.

 

[Mystical_Ice]

There is no need to go high-end. There are plenty of high power handling 10s for every budget. As a matter of fact, the maker of the subs in your pictures offers an 8" that handles as much power as a 12" from the same brand, and it is not one their expensive models.

ahh but you assumed that when i said "high-end" i meant "high-priced", but you'll notice after "high-end" i put a colon, and specified: high-power-handling. i never implied that only high priced subwoofers are high power handling.

also, i'm not sure what you mean when you say the maker of my subs offers an 8" that handles as much power as a 12" from the same brand. i assume you're talking RMS...(and i'm pretty sure you are, because later in your above post you mentioned a "160W" and "120W" sub, which is their RMS wattage) in which case there's no 8" and 12" sub of the same brand in their lineup that shares the same rated RMS wattage.

 

[D148L0]

ahh but you assumed that when i said "high-end" i meant "high-priced", but you'll notice after "high-end" i put a colon, and specified: high-power-handling. i never implied that only high priced subwoofers are high power handling.

also, i'm not sure what you mean when you say the maker of my subs offers an 8" that handles as much power as a 12" from the same brand. i assume you're talking RMS...(and i'm pretty sure you are, because later in your above post you mentioned a "160W" and "120W" sub, which is their RMS wattage) in which case there's no 8" and 12" sub of the same brand in their lineup that shares the same rated RMS wattage.

I agree with the high end stuff. Just added that there are cheap high power subs.
The 120 and 160W were fictional values.

You are right, the specific wattage is 125W RMS for the 8W3 V2 and 150W RMS for the 15W0. I was using the power chart as reference to point the similarity, but I should have added the specific values.

What about efficiency as topic for the other thread?
Later.

 

[Mystical_Ice]

yeah, but that's also not quite a "beginner" topic... that should be covered a little later in the "FAQ" i think.

the specific wattage is 125W RMS for the 8W3 V2 and 150W RMS for the 15W0

yeah but those are completely different models of subs (even though they're made by the same manufacturer: JL Audio)... you can't really compare them
Practically every subwoofer model (from all manufacturers) the bigger the cone size (i.e. 8, 10, 12, 15, 18, 24, etc.) the more power handling... simply because more power's needed to move the sub. like cars: a smaller car doesn't require a very big engine to move it, while a big car needs a bigger engine.

for once we seem to agree on something

 

[D148L0]

Of course you can compare them. Both share the same principles and purposes.
The intention of posting about the two of them is to reiterate about the importance of choosing a sub based on the kind of music you hear the most, power handling should be secondary to that.

the bigger the cone size (i.e. 8, 10, 12, 15, 18, 24, etc.) the more power handling... simply because more power's needed to move the sub. like cars: a smaller car doesn't require a very big engine to move it, while a big car needs a bigger engine.

I agree in the fact that usually the bigger = more power handling. However, it is not because of size itself, it is because of the frecuencies they are intended for.
Now that is a great topic for the basics thread.