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Okay. I can't find Kevin's post about technology being a replacement for displacement... My question is - is technology really a replacement? What about displacement with technology?

Whatever technology is creating 4cyl motors that are stronger than v8 motors can easily be used on v8 motors. No?
 

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I remember him talking about that too. Its weird, I was looking for a post not too long ago about something and it simply wasnt there!!!! I had to do a search, and I found it. Another thing..... It doesnt let you search for something under 4 letters, and I was searching for a thread on WAX!! DOH
 

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Sal Collaziano said:
Okay. I can't find Kevin's post about technology being a replacement for displacement... My question is - is technology really a replacement? What about displacement with technology?

Whatever technology is creating 4cyl motors that are stronger than v8 motors can easily be used on v8 motors. No?
just take a look at some of the high-end engines at BMW and MB, they have technology and displacment and a load of power, and gobs of torque
 

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Look at the LS-1
 

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Sal Collaziano said:

Whatever technology is creating 4cyl motors that are stronger than v8 motors can easily be used on v8 motors. No?
Yeah they could but the weight would be a problem in the small cars for sure. Plus the cost factor would tend to keep them only in HIGH-END cars.
The point is that back in the "old days", there was no replacement for displacement. These days, that's simply NOT true anymore.
 

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yeah, the old guys try to hang on, forgetting that some of their "fast" cars were pullin 0-60 in the high sixes. which now is commonplace for cars that arent even performance oriented, oh yeah plus cleaner, safer,more efficient, lots more expensive :D
 

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Per Motor Trend: '70 Chevrolet Chevelle SS454 LS-6 454-ci V-8/450 hp, 0-60 6.0, 1/4 mile 13.8/97.5...maybe the king of 1970, but i owned a Buick GN for a few years and car and driver rated that at 4.9 0-60, that may have been generous, but either way it was in the 5's. So imo displacment has been replaced by technology for a LONG time.
 
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It depends on the particular car in question - NOT just the motor. Engine dynos mean squat in the real world. If all you like is "Uh drag racin....YEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAA!" then all you need to concern yourself is with the size of the engine and a decent rail set up.

Now, if you are into cars in the real world, then other factors come into play. What car is it? What will it do? I think the "Dumbmestic" only guys are funny when they drone on and on about such and such engine makes 4000hp. Yeah, put that in an EVO Lancer and run a rally race and see how far it goes.

Or, the ricer with the attitude that V-tek is new technology invented by Honduh :rolleyes: and that you need an engine with high revs to make power...but thats another issue entirely.

Mad power can be made from smaller engines these days due to better designs. Sure, some engines can make more power on the dyno...but is it USEABLE power?

"No replacement for displacement" is an empty statement with no meaning in the real world. Other factors come into play when you are building a race car. Anyway, I've said it before and I'll say it again - fast is fast no matter how you make. V8 or I4*. It doesn't matter.
_______

*1000hp 2.2liter I4 GM Ecotec engine

http://www.lingenfelter.com/

http://www.lingenfelter.com/ebay/modcar.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The 2005 Z06 will be displacement with new technology. Let's see how that Vette does... How do you think the Lancer will hold up against it?
 

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the 2005 Z06 is rumored to have 500hp, therefore im sure it would crush the EVO in all categories sans price and passenger seating. but if you did want to run a rally the EVO would be a better choice than a vette
 

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Screw the EVO, the STi is the HOT setup. And it WILL run the wheels off a new Vette in virtually ANY race, AND in ANY weather ;) The Corvette, like all other RWD performance cars will have to come to terms with their performance limits, especially when competeing with 4WD and AWD cars.
As for the statement that Dyno figures mean nothing in the "real world", I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. Dyno tuning will ABSOLUTELY improve the usability of an engine in ALL respects. They also produce "verifiable" evidence of what a particular engine is capable of. They allow far more accurate "matching" of trans and diff gearing to the engine's particular performance profile, allowing the finished vehicle to perform better in a wide variety of instances.
If you don't think dyno figures "prove" anything, or have any use in the "real" world, I would say that you need to have someone show you how to "properly" interpret the data so that you can understand it better.
 

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the question was 2005 Z06 vs. EVO, if the 2005 z06 has 500 hp as rumored, it will run circles around the EVO and the STI. if you are talking current vettes, then i would agree the sti looks to be as fast or faster to 60, probably not to 100 though. and as far as awd, im not buying. Other than WRC no major race sanctioning body uses it, because in the end it is NOT better than rwd. In the real world on snow and ice, it may be a hell of alot better. Also, rwd doesnt seem overly limiting, when you look and find out that at least the top 10, 20 or 30 fastest production cars are rear wheel drive. which do you think will be faster the SRX with awd or the SRX with rwd? Audi and Jag are being forced to build their new flagship sedans out of aluminium just to keep weight reasonable...why?...awd. why is an audi a6 slower to 60 than all other comparable german sedans?....lemme guess....Answer: its the awd
 

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Stop comparing apples to oranges. The point is pure common sense. You can give a Vette or any other RWD car 1000hp right now and it won't be "proportionately" faster due to traction limitations. How much power a car has means NOTHING if you can't get that power to the ground. This is where AWD has the advantage. If you were to take your SLS and give it another 300HP, it wouldn't be able to actually USE the power because it couldn't properly translate the power into acceleration due to lack of traction (which of course is due to many factors on a FWD).
The same goes for a RWD car, If I were to put an extra 300HP in my car, although I'd LOVE to have it, I couldn't possibly get enough tire on the car to use it.
Sure AWD componentry means extra weight, but it also allows for more power.
IMO, anyone who thinks RWD is a superior setup to AWD, has never driven high performance cars with BOTH drivetrains.
 

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Here where it all matters........the getting laid ratio

Vette favored by 3 to 1
 

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Why is the Porsche C4 slower than the C2...same horsepower right? shouldnt c4 be faster, why is the diablo SV faster than the VT?...these comparisons can go and and on, show me an apples to apples comparison where the awd is faster.
 

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i saw an eclipse do a 4 tire burnout so the same goes for awd, he couldnt get the power to the ground. moments later he also lost to my stock vette, not off the line(ill give you that) but he lost the race. if all your races are 0-30 then awd is the way to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The best numbers of the Z06 stock are 11.6 in the quarter mile. Adding another 100 or so horsepower is expected to get it around 11.2 or so.. So it's right to assume that more horsepower doesn't always get you much better numbers.

And yes, the STi is going to be all the rave this year. Still, the Z06 is designed for the race track. The STi isn't going to out power it or out handle it. For the money, it's an impressive car...

On slippery surfaces, AWD is best. And for great launches, AWD is best. All true... But when all is said and done, I still think our American cars are ahead of the game. Our two best cars - Viper and Z06 - are no less than incredible... The Viper should be coming down to around the same price as the Vette..

ANYWAY.. We all know what displacement AND technology creates. The Lingenfelter TT Vette.. Doesn't that car do 0-60 in around 2 seconds? AND it's a daily driver? I forget what the quarter mile was but it's insane...

I guess technology can replace displacement. But there's no replacement for technology WITH displacement. :D
 

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yeah but lingenfelter had to switch over to awd on the vette to get it to go that fast, the engineering cost alone must have been astronomical.....oh wait a minute.....thats right it was rwd... weird;)
 
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