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01 DTS,02 Deville,94 Concours,50 Sedan,03 S55,03 Excursion
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Discussion Starter #1
Gentleman, my humble apologies for the delay in getting my vehicles tested and on the dyno. In the world of making electricity spare time is not an option. On to other things of interest. The swap has been an incredible learning curve for me and my brother in the world of Northstar's. We have even played with our 94 Concours first gen which is the real shock of the group.
First we just did the conversion of the Z-PCM into the DTS, just to see if it would be compatible. With some minor changes and sensors. We ran the Deville pretty hard. Stock we did a run of 15.079 @ 86 mph. OK next once the Z-PCM was installed did three more runs with a dismal best of 15.166 @ 88 mph.
Now the the weird stuff. Rhemus exhaust, magna flow high flow converter, Stock air box removed, "Our own cold air induction system using the same mass air flow sensor, just much closer to the butterfly and throttlebody. The car kicks off a 14.791 @ 91 mph. Heated up the tires 3 gallons of gas, aluminum stocks in the back ET streets on the front no traction control engaged. 14.706 @ 93 mph. Granted this is the first part of the experiment mind you. It gets much better.
Wester of Canada sends us our $600 dollar custom PCM for the DTS. After replacing a radiator with a blown bucket. Slid a optional two core in its place for a one time price of $500, (yeah right). Put it back on the track for test and tune a week later.
Now considering I am a rather large man @ 6'4" 370 lbs. I would figure my brother who is much lighter 6'5" 230lbs. have a crack at it. Manual shifting he did a three run rip with a best time of 14.269 @ 97mph. The fellas at westers after calling them said with manual shifting is the way to go with this car. We will be posting the runs on you tube within the next 48 hours. We will also show the exhaust work, our constructed cold air induction kit, lowering kit on our DTS for this web site.
They also did wonders on my 94 Concours it will run a 15 flat and kill my stock 02 Deville head to head with Corsa exhaust and highflow cat.
There is still more work to be done but this is a positve outlook with minimal collateral damage. A little more careful work, I should be ready solid for a 94-96 IMP SS, and Crown Vic (P71) , or Merc M!

Mackpappy
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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Now we're getting somewhere. When you asked Wester's to do the 01 DTS PCM, did you specify any of your desires - timing, air/fuel, raise shift rpm, speed limiter removal ...... or did you let them make their own decisions regarding the "best tune" ?
 

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01 DTS,02 Deville,94 Concours,50 Sedan,03 S55,03 Excursion
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105 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
The only requests that I made for the vehicle was to have the speed limiter removed, and full use of overdrive on top end. Their "tech support" basically asked me the gauntlet of questions of what was going to be the car's purpose. Since I explained to them weekend warrior status, the air fuel ratio would a have mild change. Given instructions to change the thermostat to a 180 degree versus a 192/195 set up. The tranny would see a jump in shifts @ 6500 rpm. These guys gave me a ton of offline information about these platforms and motors, that I will share in the days to come once I start unloading pics and videos. One thing is for sure. He said these motors do there damage in the 3500-5500 range. He actually called it the Northstar's sweet spot another tech chuckled and called it the 4 cam blast. Off the line this platform was not designed for grandpa kill you at the light. But it was grandpa on the family / business trip, on the interstate letting you know move aside "sonny" big daddy coming through. Mid range and top end is where these motors excel. Removal of the air box was a big help, even though it takes about five seconds for the idle adjustment and throttlebody to become friends. But NO check engine / service engine soon crap. I cut a larger hole over the fender with a screen to get more air in the compartment. To my brother's amusement the car has a hoover vacuum cleaner sound at idle. But under hard pedal, it is a angry, twisted, sounding, small block. The question I had for them was what were the possibilities? They were guessing, with a throttlebody change, and with some exhaust manifold / header work. 13.75 - 14.00 range on street tires. Anymore than that then its cam work and head work. Until I hit the lottery, I will stay with bolt on theories and applications. I will give you guys more info as I go along. Constellation Energy has me busy. But I will have a three car comparison to shed some light on many questions. The mutant 01 DTS, my 02 Deville which will have just intake / exhaust work. Then my 94 Concours which is fresh and tight with 70,000k that Wester's had fun working the OBD1 challenge. Please respond with any other suggestions / theories, and comments that could help my " Baltimore bucket " as a sleeper. Shade tree mechanics unite!!! Sub you are still not off the hook for that down home cooking and beer my friend!

Mackpappy
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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Your experience with the DTS airbox and my extensive work on my STS airbox are mirrors - intake whine at idle and "gawdamighty" at WOT - but I stuck with a WIX panel filter.

I did a LOT of fooling around with a JET MAF (a mechanically modified DELPHI OEM unit) and decided it was a waste of time and money. Decrease in midrange performance, slight loss of gas mileage, and codes a-poppin'.

Here's the comparison.............If you look real hard you can see the 3 heated resistors in each unit as well as the black IAT thermistor at the edge of the bore. That's not a screen on the stock unit - it's a 1/4" deep honeycomb flow straightener, just like a wind tunnel. Click to enlarge.
 

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White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
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So Wester's is the only one who has cracked the Northstar PCM? Sounds like you're happy with the outcome. $600 was the cost if I understood correctly?
 

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01 DTS,02 Deville,94 Concours,50 Sedan,03 S55,03 Excursion
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Discussion Starter #6
It was slighty less than that my friends $499 but by the time insurance and shipping you know the drill. Ranger that is the only one I found (Wester's) that was reliable and stood behind their flashing process. Everybody else was hocus pocus, and witchdoctor like to me. Sub I am impressed with the MAF from jet. I was going to go your route but reading up on the capabilities of the stock delphi, GM says it can handle plenty of air through it. Well the motor/PCM shows marginal progress you can get a slight increase in power out of it. I might go as far as the after market header, but no more. The upgraded cam idea is too radical for me. Motor is too sound and strong to open up, and you can only put so much power to the ground in a FWD platform. I actually like the use of overdrive @ WOT. Catches plenty of highlines off guard, S classes, and 7 series. In all fairness my oil consumption has dropped considerably in the last few months. I just get the check oil message at under the 5% left on the oil change which is my guess between 4500-5000 miles. When I first bought the car 2 quarts per 1500 miles. This stretching the rings out has done wonders for her. All I use is 10w30 Mobil 1 conventional (5000 miles). And a drop up M/M oil in the tank for fuel pump lubrication ,and upper cylinder / valve maintenance. ( I know fellas you guys call it snake oil ), but I grew up with the stuff, and never has gave me an issue in the gas tank. So Sub, Blue crab or blackend tuna my friend? Ranger where are you from?

Mack
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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Ranger eats walleye and pike and some fine steak. You and I are on for fried crab cakes, fish & chips, red necks, white socks, and Blue Ribbon beer. We can do it in elegant restaurant style or on a picnic table at the Crab Deck on Kent Narrows.

We all have a gallon of MMO on the shelf..............

BTW, I still have the JET MAF - if you want to fool with it, you're welcome to experiment............
 

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Super Moderator
White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
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86,626 Posts
Northern Ill. About 40-50 miles NW of Chicago. If I was closer I'd join you guys.

P.S. Ranger eats anything that does not eat him first. I could do a number on fried crab cakes.
 

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01 DTS,02 Deville,94 Concours,50 Sedan,03 S55,03 Excursion
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105 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Sub what do you want for that MAF sensor. I will purchase that for my 02 Deville. (Daily driver). And better yet do you have a grill ? Would you object in me travelling your way with the beast, and treating you to some home cooking and beer tasting? I am a "big home grown brotha" but I am from the "Shenandoah Valley / Blue Ridge Mountains" Virgina. I am close as it comes to redneck just my tan is deep fried. We can send Ranger the recipe to Beer batter catfish, vinegar soaked collard greens. What you think?

Mack
 

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01 DTS,02 Deville,94 Concours,50 Sedan,03 S55,03 Excursion
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105 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I appreciate you guys influence, knowledge, GM facts, and guidance on this journey. This website is worth its weight in synthetic oil, (gold too)!
 

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White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
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I don't know about the collard greens, but the cat fish sounds good.
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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He ain't had catfish 'till he's had Karen's beer battered pan fried catfish. My tartar sauce. Little malt vinegar. How 'bout fresh kale (our garden) and a li'l vinegar. Webers and giant fry pans I got...........lawsy, now I'm hungry.

Me, I'm Scotch/Irish - my folks are from Buckeystown and Frederick out through Cumberland to Morgantown, WV, then west and south to Fairfield, KY - no tan of any sort - :highfive: - it takes boat time and Hawaiian Tropic......:sneaky:

You're welcome to mess with the MAF, see if it does anything for you, and then go to www.rockauto.com, pick up a DELPHI unit and modify it yourself. I could not, in good conscience, sell one of these things for anything close to what the commercial modifiers want for it.
 

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01 DTS,02 Deville,94 Concours,50 Sedan,03 S55,03 Excursion
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Discussion Starter #13
You give a time table so I can take some vacation and a trip. It will good to head out in that direction. Good country the Eastern Shore is. I need to get a piece of some of that Karen's catfish Lawdy, lawdy!!!

Mack
 

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105 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I was looking around gents, and Sub do they make a upgraded throttlebody for more airflow? I have heard a few mumbles through the forum but nothing solid. Then again I don't see much more air coming through than the stock set up.

Mack
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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The present TB flows more air than a 279 c.i. engine can handle at redline. There was some discussion of aftermarket bored throttlebodies in Northstar Performance a couple of years back, but nothing came of it. If you found one, your PCM would have to go back to Wester's for the change in air/fuel ratios. There's an aftermarket Northstar builder, www.chrfab.com, that builds engines for Fiero kit cars and sand rails, BUT those engines bear NO resemblance to a transverse FWD powertrain. Exhaust work is pretty much a dead end, too: there is no room for headers and that damn front crossunder pipe is the one big problem. Look at www.corsaperformance.com - if they still make a cat-back for your 01 DTS, that's a proven positive power enhancement from 3,500 rpm up. Easy install, look at www.autopartswarehouse.com

This picture is almost an exact copy of the system for your car - just the bumper view is different.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I figured as much, because of that tight fit and angle of degree of bend of the crossover pipe, there is no hope there. Also you said the same thing, as the tech did for Wester's. That throttlebody is more than adequate for the air thats coming through the intake. Once again there is no shame in a low 14 second luxo-cruiser. Top end is even better. I have only hit her WOT once to see the overdrive engage. At 135 she went to fourth like nobody's business. Didn't need to see anything else. The song it sang Sub on the upper band climb 3500 plus was majestic. She had room to roll too. I have noticed since the change. I have better response from 2/3 throttle from the light than to the floor and hold on. I take that to be the air / fuel ratio change. Idle has a 50 rpm drop, and gas mileage has taken a hit. Before 17 / 25 now 15 / 22 but that was to be expected. Nothing horrible.

Mack
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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Yep - lots of owners forget that, although the 4T80E is a 4-speed automatic with torque converter lockup (for "5th" gear), third gear is the 1.00:1 direct drive gear and 4th is the 0.68:1 overdrive; there is no tailshaft/case with an OD gear.

I would like to see a real OD for my Seville, especially for the Florida/Maine runs, but where would you put it ??? That would drop the 75 mph rpm from about 2500 back to 2,000. My F-150 4.6 4X4 has a real OD and, at 75, it's turning about 1,900.
 

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'02 Bronze Mist DTS (SOLD)'00 Black DTS w/ NV & Nav
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wow........ I'm amazed, I thought my tuning days were done. Now I see this, oh boy!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Its great when things work but, but its a pain in the a$$ when she doesn't come together as planned.

Mack
 
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