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Discussion Starter #1
the other day, my wife drove the car 80 miles, then went to a few different places all with no troubles, stopped at her moms had a sandwich went to leave and nothing,..... the car has all power everywhere but will not spin and engage the starter, so the next morning i drove 80 mi. and did everything i could think of from checking all fuses and switching all the starter relays and yes there are "many" of them even in back floor under edge of back seat, so i tapped on the starter with a hammer, no luck. i crossed the solenoid with the key on and BAM, it fired up, she drove it home with me following no problems got home, put it in the garage shut it off and nothing again all power works but will not spin/engage the starter. so i crossed it again and it fires right up. shut it off but i noticed on the way home that she had the fog/driving lights on, she never uses them but i do. so when i shut it off the lights stayed on and would not go off even when i turned on the high beams so i had to unhook the battery and the next day "today" i have been checking it out and have had no luck even had to unplug the fog lights and as of now nothing good has happened but tomorrow im going to put in a push button for the starter, just to get by but i want this fixed right, any ideals, :bonkers::bonkers:????????2003 cts 3.2 i did a major repair last year bought it not running timing belt was broken so i had to pull the heads replace all the intake valves and put it back together and have been driving it for one year now been to daytona beach from home here in ky smooth sailing both ways, could one of the cadi mechanics please point me in the right direction, im not an idiot but i am stumped here,.......
 

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By any chance was the fuse box moved? Either to replace a headlight in the passenger side (ill-advised) or by working on the engine last year?

One of the reasons why I tell people to remove the bumper cover to replace the headlight bumps, are because of problems like this. Removing the fuse box can cause a gremlin to appear months down the road.

If the box was moved, just check the bolts that hold it down. Make sure that they are tight and what not. But this is just a guess of what other people have experienced. I personally have not moved my box, so I don't know exactly what happened with others.

KOT
 

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Discussion Starter #3
didnt move it but unhooked wire harness going to it,.... but its been a whole year,? any way, i have searched the web over and over about this and not finding anything much, could the starter solenoid be the issue,? but, that wouldnt explain the fog lights,?????, losing my mind here,... lol

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also have had the mirrors moving around a few times "before" this happened,
 

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I have heard of rare cases that the ecu would have problems where it wouldn't energize the stater relay. But as for the fog lights, not sure.

As for the moving mirror. Well which one? Many of us, especially the ones who have the memory seat function. Has a problem with the drivers mirror. I have the problem with it too. But the best way that I've dealt with it, is to disable the Remote memory function. So the mirrors or seat won't move when I press the unlock on the remote.

The mirrors were not moving on their own though. Only the drivers out of proper position with the remote.

KOT
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yep when you push the remote for driver 1 or 2 they go to the wrong place sometimes,... The fog lights have me stumped for sure but, i can install a starter button to get around that issue but i really want to fix it right, its suck a nice car, ;p

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Oops, "such"
 

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Discussion Starter #6
update,..... as of now i have started it by crossing out the solenoid, pulling the starter relay and crossing it there and it starts fine a clear indication the starter is good, i have put the big cca battery from my truck in it and i know its not the battery, so i have the dash and steering collum torn apart and pulled the key switch out and tried to start it that way, no help, so im ordering the $22 ignition switch from autozone since im there anyway, ;) when i get this fixed i will post pics and the answer to this crazy problem for all to see,.....
 

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So now see if you get power to that relay that you have removed. If you don't, then trace the wires back to the ECM. If they are good to there, then replace the ECM. Or reset the plug to the ECM, maybe a simple reset of the plugs will help.

Just so you know, the ECM for the 3.2 is mounted on top of the engine. So with all that heat, it wouldn't surprise me that things it messy.

KOT
 

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Discussion Starter #8
is the ecu on top of passenger side valve cover with 2 large plugs,? i just had unplugged the one closest to the plenum to remove the bracket bolts in the side of plentum. i did a cleaning of the pcv system replaced everything drove it for one day and the next day my wife drove 80 miles then went a few places up there and it wouldnt start at the end of the day when she was fixing to come 80 miles back home,??? i will removing and repluging that plug in the morning to "check" to see that it is ok,.... hummmmm
 

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That sounds like the ECM. Above the engine and passenger side.

Yeah check that cable. While you're in there, spray it with electronic cleaner. Especially since you've had it apart.

KOT
 

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Discussion Starter #10
what about the neutral safety switch,...? it tells the computer to allow the starter to start the car,??? so im going to go now and see if im getting the power to the yellow wire coming out of the ignition switch when i turn the key, because power is on to the switch so ti should be hot coming out when turning the key to start position even if the computer tells it not to start, cause it should go threw the computer after leaving the switch.... right? ill let ya know in a lil while
 

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Discussion Starter #11
ok, i went and put enough back together so i could test the ignition switch, then i tested to make sure both rad/white wires had power with key on, then i unhooked the harness to the ignition switch found my yellow wire going out from switch to "starter" but it goes to ecm first, then with my test light i turned the key to the "start position, over and over like i was trying to start it and every time the yellow wire lit the test light just like it should have so,..... the switch is good, the only thing else i can find is the saefty neutral switch sends a signal to the ecm to tell it its ok to start the engine, so the safety neutral switch is not sending the signal so its bad,.... new one will be here in the morning but for now i have ALOT of dash to put back together before my wife see's it and has a stroke,..... lol :2thumbs::2thumbs::2thumbs:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
ok, im a dumb a$$,..... can any one tell me the location of the neutral safety switch on a 2003 cts,??? its not on the transmissions left (drivers) side its not on the right(passenger) side only one wiring going to trans i can find and thats not for the safety switch,........
 

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Discussion Starter #13
well the saga continues,...... changed the neutral safety switch (inside the transmission pan) still no help but,.... now the check engine light stays on even with the key out of the ignition, ????? but on the bright side the fog lamps are working correctly again,.. so does this tranny have a low oil shut down on it? i havent filled it with new fluid yet just tried to bump the starter to check it after putting it all back together,.....
 

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All signs are pointing to the ECM at this point.

Did you reset the plug that you removed the other week?

KOT
 

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Discussion Starter #15
yes i did, i removed it inspected to make sure the pins were all ok and nothing, BUT, now the engine light is staying on even after clearing codes and removing key from ignition,??????? it ran the battery down over night from being on, filled the tranny with fluid charging battery and going to hook up push button for starter in a lil while, i cleared the codes with my code reader, then with the cars code reader and still the engine light stays on just like the fog lights did, ??? i bought 5 gals of gas and i have a match, and i will use it !!!!!!!!! lol
 

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Discussion Starter #16
ok, i need to know some teck stuff, the starter relay in the fuse box under the hood, ok, one is hot all the time key is on, one goes to starter solenoid, what are the other two and what position are they in,??? hot is looking from front of car it is the back left and starter is front right so, what is front left and back right? i need to know where these "ground" (i guess) signals come from,
 

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Discussion Starter #18
OK, THE SAGA CONTINUES,..... but, my car kept blowing the fuse marked htrvlv/clutch, a 10 amp fuse so i noticed that a wiring harness on the drivers side of the engine was pulled tight around the engine lift bracket,??? so i moved it from around it flexed and wiggled the harness around for a bit and NOW i put in a new fuse and it didnt blow, it started right up,????? but it is still running the battery down over night, its ok all day starts every time but i unhooked the ground from the battery and clipped my test light to the battery cable and put the probe end into the ground post on battery and it lit up like a christmas tree, so there is a hot back feed some where, i'll let ya know when i find it
 

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Discussion Starter #19
***update*** still having troubles but, i installed a power shut off (like on a race car) on the ground cable, now it starts just fine, go anywhere i want no problems but, if i hook a test light to the ground cable while unhooked from battery then touch the light to the ground post on battery the light lights up from ground to ground, yes somewhere there is a short thats back feeding but i cant find it? But as long as i turn off power switch at night it will start every morning, havent had to use the push button to start it not even once. Works with key as it should. Just need to find where that short is. I did "wiggle" the harness on the driver side of engine just before it started to start with key, because the harness was behind the engine lift hook and it looked "tight" so i moved it to outside of hook and it started, yes i have looked in that harness for my short with no luck so far,....... Grrrrr, i really like this car but im getting kind of tired of messing with it. My wife has drove it the 80 mile oneway trip to her mothers 15-20 times with no troubles like i said works as it should but i keep the push button hooked up just in case but only use key to start now, so,.... Any of you guru's have a suggestion for me,???? I want to fix this since so many are having the same problem so we will have a bonafide fix that has worked at least once, to share with others, as of yet no parts have been replaced but added the starter push button that i only used a few times before moving the wiring harness on driver side of engine from behind front lift hook well, thats all i have for now but, i will not quit till i figure this out so send suggestions and i'll update as i find things out
 

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Re: ran great, turned it off, will not start **UPDATE** I FOUND WHY IT WOULDNT START

OK, ITS BEEN A WHILE BUT I HAVEN'T GIVEN UP AND I FINALLY FOUND THE REASON IT WOULDN'T START, THE RELAY FOR THE A/C CLUTCH WAS STUCK. IT WAS CAUSING A MAJOR DRAIN OF POWER FROM THE ORIGINAL POWER SUPPLY THAT'S WHY A STARTER BUTTON WILL WORK FOR A FEW MONTHS THEN QUIT WORKING, I SPENT ABOUT $400.00 AT "ACME AUTO ELECTRIC IN LOUISVILLE, KY." :worship::worship::worship: THEY FOUND IT AND REPLACED THAT RELAY AND PUT IN A NEW BATTERY (HAD A BAD CELL) AND ITS BEEN A MONTH NOW AND SHE DON'T RUN LIKE CRAP ANYMORE STARTS EVERY TIME NO MORE TROUBLES WITH ANYTHING THAT WAS GOING ON BEFORE. I TOLD YOU ONE WAY OR ANOTHER I WOULD GET THIS AND REPORT BACK SO WE ALL CAN TRY AND FIX THIS, A DAM $11.00 RELAY GAVE ME 100,000 MORE GRAY HAIRS BUT ITS NOW OVER. SO GO FORTH AND REPLACE YOURS AND END THE MADNESS :cool2::cool2::cool2::xsmile::farting:
 
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