Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
'73 Sedan DeVille
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey all,

I'm looking to convert the A/C to R134a on my '73 Sedan DeVille. The mechanic I take it to (great local independent shop, I trust them to do any work I don't know how to do myself) said there's an issue with the R134a molecules being smaller & leaking through the old R12 hose material (I've also found old posts to that effect). He also said he's not sure the POA + expansion valve system will work with R134a; it's the POA issue he's stuck on. So we're both doing research on this...

My questions are, does anybody out there know of any A/C hose kits that'll work for these Caddys? Also, is R134a a no-no with a POA? If it is, is there a way to convert the A/C system to use an accumulator, instead of the setup it's got now?

I'm truly sorry if I missed this stuff in the forum search, but I did search the forums (and google) & couldn't find the info I needed...

Thanks in advance everyone!
 

·
Registered
1989 Brougham d'Elegance, 1985 Fleetwood Brougham *Coupe*
Joined
·
4,256 Posts
R-134a molecules are smaller so you do need run new hoses. 134a also runs at higher pressures, so you need to replace the seals on the compressor and upgrade the condenser (to dissipate the extra heat). The POA also needs to be upgraded for use with 134a. The POA functions as both an expansion valve and a receiver-drier, so you can replace it with an expansion valve and a receiver-drier (two different parts), or you can get a POA, which is already calibrated for 134a, from classicautoair.com.

R-134a is not going to be able to cool your car properly. A better option would be Freeze 12, which is an alternative to R-12 and is completly compatible with R-12 and R-12 components. You need to be certified in A/C to purchase it, but if your mechanic can purchase refrigerant, then it may be a cheaper solution to doing a full conversion.
 

·
Registered
'73 Sedan DeVille
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thank you very much for the info. My mechanic said he could get ahold of "real Freon" if I just wanted a recharge, but he didn't say if it was actual R12 or Freeze 12. I know it was expensive; he said a recharge with that stuff would be about the same as the parts & labor on a R134a conversion. Re: R134a not being able to cool the car, is that due to the higher pressure (& therefore higher heat)? Is there anything that can be done, or will the 134 never be as cold as 12? I always thought that big A6 compressor would be able to handle a conversion. Anyway, thanks again for your time, I really appreciate the data.
 

·
Registered
77 CDV, 06 DTS III, 69 FWB
Joined
·
10,022 Posts
R134a doesn't have the same cooling capacity as R12. No matter what you do, an R134a system will never cool your car as well as R12. Keep in mind also that R134a is going away in the near future.
 

·
Registered
1989 Brougham d'Elegance, 1985 Fleetwood Brougham *Coupe*
Joined
·
4,256 Posts
The "real freon" he was referring to is probably R-12. It really expensive and hard to find because it's use was banned in 1994. Ask him about Freeze 12. It is less than half the cost of R-12 and works exactly the same way, without having expensive system upgrades.

Here is a link to an online store for Freeze 12.
 

·
Registered
02 Escalade | 02 Corvette "Goldilocks" | 03 Blazer 4x4 | 92 Caprice Wagon LS1/T56
Joined
·
19,692 Posts
Why is R134a going away? Not to hijack, but I'm intrigued.
 

·
Registered
1989 Brougham d'Elegance, 1985 Fleetwood Brougham *Coupe*
Joined
·
4,256 Posts
The California Air Resources Board (the same good people that killed the Automobile) have found R-134a to be harmful to the environment. The EPA agrees.

It's going away for the exact same reason R-12 was banned. 14 years from now, the new freon will go away, and 28 years from now, they'll declare water hazardous.
 

·
Registered
Past: 95 Fleetwood, 91 Brougham. Now: 92 Lexus SC300
Joined
·
5,418 Posts
they do say birth is the leading cause of death.
EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!:histeric::histeric::histeric:

I'd make sure your existing system doesn't have any leaks and try some of that "freeze 12" stuff.

I swore I saw some "freeze 12" last time I was at my local advance auto parts, but I couldn't find the stuff on their website.

Did a google search, apparently you can buy "freeze 12" on amazon.com I swear they have 1000x more junk than your local wal-mart at better prices anyways.

http://www.amazon.com/Freeze-12-Refrigerant-Quick-Charge-Replacement/dp/B002GQ0QQO
 

·
Registered
1979 Sedan deVille d'Elegance
Joined
·
4,153 Posts
Stupidly I converted my former 1976 Fleetwood Brougham to 134A several years ago, it could not cool the car at all. I converted back to R12, learned my lesson, won't use anything but R12 - which is still available in abundance and not that overly expensive, whole adventure cost me plenty. Convert to 134 in an old Cadillac if you want to be displeased. :)
 

·
Registered
Cadillac
Joined
·
54 Posts
I put R134 in my '76 Fleetwood 18 months ago only other change was the oil so far have had no problems it cools sufficiently well but not as well as R12. Air conditioningologist reckons you don't need to chanhe other parts especially if you use the compressor often enough to keep everything lubricated.
 

·
Registered
'73 Sedan DeVille
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for all the info everyone. I followed the links, did some more research of my own, and that combined with your replies has made me change my mind about converting. Just seems like way more trouble than it's worth. I'm gonna talk to my mechanic about using "Freeze 12".

Thanks again!
 

·
Registered
94 Fleetwood Brougham
Joined
·
7,534 Posts
The irony is those air horns everyone uses at sporting events and the cans of spray air to clean your computer are nothing more than R134a... Look closely at the cans sometime.... Identical chemicals inside. But that stuff is "ok".... but yet if you vent "freon", it is illegal. But you can spray those cans all you want.....

Yes, you can put R134a in the 73, but it will be a continual leak. Even replacing hoses likely will still be leak prone, so just stock up on R134a and call it done. You'll save more in the long run.

The other ironic thing, is my 80 Turbo T/A has a moderate charge (how much no way to know) of R12 in it that Pontiac put in at the factory. Still in there. Left untouched still.... R12 didn't leak anything like R134a. So now this new stuff, my guess is to replace the R134a because Dupont's patents probably ran out so they needed something fresh to milk the world for....


The California Air Resources Board (the same good people that killed the Automobile) have found R-134a to be harmful to the environment. The EPA agrees.

It's going away for the exact same reason R-12 was banned. 14 years from now, the new freon will go away, and 28 years from now, they'll declare water hazardous.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top