Pulley Upgrade
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What pulley upgrade? Who has one available for a STS-V?
Anyway, to answer your question...in general, pulley upgrades on a S/C car turns the S/C faster and thus builds more boost per rpm turned. Quite naturally, to get any real benefit from that action, one would have to trick/modify the boost limiter to allow the additional boost. Then, of course, as you mentioned, one should re-tune to correct the timing and mixture maps to a)get the full benefit of the modification, b)prevent detonation from the added boost.
So far, no one we know, is making one yet. I've seen one for the XLR-V, but its belt system is different from the STS-V. I'm told Wait-4-Me performance is working on one, but I do not believe it is available yet.
Anyway, to answer your question...in general, pulley upgrades on a S/C car turns the S/C faster and thus builds more boost per rpm turned. Quite naturally, to get any real benefit from that action, one would have to trick/modify the boost limiter to allow the additional boost. Then, of course, as you mentioned, one should re-tune to correct the timing and mixture maps to a)get the full benefit of the modification, b)prevent detonation from the added boost.
So far, no one we know, is making one yet. I've seen one for the XLR-V, but its belt system is different from the STS-V. I'm told Wait-4-Me performance is working on one, but I do not believe it is available yet.
Hello jwall09,
We did the testing on this a long time ago, if memory serves me correct, our pulley gained around 25rwhp and around 35 lb ft tq.
That sounds good for dyno speak, but the reality is these supercharges are way inefficient even in stock form. Once you add more boost they Heat soak very fast.
In stock form, the STS-V will run at around 140 deg F. just cruising around, and if you get on it through 3 gears it will get up to about 180-190 deg F.
If you add additional boost on a stock intercooler set up, it will go from that 140 deg F. temp to 190 deg f. in less than 2 gears.
We've gone as far as adding bigger intercoolers w/ fans, a resevoir, as well as adding Methenol. The addition of these items have allowed us to stay just below what the factory temps would be.
Tuning the car is an absolute with a pulley upgrade, the stock computer will see an overboost condition and cause a major power reduction, as well as the timing and A/F ratios need to be adjusted.
The best part about the pulley upgrade is the low end torque, the car will wake up out of the hole. It's a lot of fun
As far as longevity, the pistons are forged and the lower end is more than capable of handling the additional boost. Anythig above 600 BHP you would want to concider changing the powdered metal rods and upgrading the TQ. converter. (We've had to do this on numerous Stage 3 cars).
Hope this helps, if you have any questions feel free to call me or respond here.
We did the testing on this a long time ago, if memory serves me correct, our pulley gained around 25rwhp and around 35 lb ft tq.
That sounds good for dyno speak, but the reality is these supercharges are way inefficient even in stock form. Once you add more boost they Heat soak very fast.
In stock form, the STS-V will run at around 140 deg F. just cruising around, and if you get on it through 3 gears it will get up to about 180-190 deg F.
If you add additional boost on a stock intercooler set up, it will go from that 140 deg F. temp to 190 deg f. in less than 2 gears.
We've gone as far as adding bigger intercoolers w/ fans, a resevoir, as well as adding Methenol. The addition of these items have allowed us to stay just below what the factory temps would be.
Tuning the car is an absolute with a pulley upgrade, the stock computer will see an overboost condition and cause a major power reduction, as well as the timing and A/F ratios need to be adjusted.
The best part about the pulley upgrade is the low end torque, the car will wake up out of the hole. It's a lot of fun
As far as longevity, the pistons are forged and the lower end is more than capable of handling the additional boost. Anythig above 600 BHP you would want to concider changing the powdered metal rods and upgrading the TQ. converter. (We've had to do this on numerous Stage 3 cars).
Hope this helps, if you have any questions feel free to call me or respond here.
We've had one out for 2 years now
d3Mark-
Is there a heat exchanger/intercooler upgrade to help with the stock setup? Seems as though you could ge the same kind of performce boost by cooling down the intake charge instead of speeding up the blower. Have you seen or heard of a way to get the air intake temps below 100*?
The turbo radial cars my friends have have intake temps in the 70-80 degree range. But they have BIG underdash intercoolers. It's HUGE power for them to get them that low. But boost is on the order of 20-35psi depending on the track, and that make 1500-2200 hp. But I would think the same principle should apply.
Also, who makes converters for these cars?
Is there a heat exchanger/intercooler upgrade to help with the stock setup? Seems as though you could ge the same kind of performce boost by cooling down the intake charge instead of speeding up the blower. Have you seen or heard of a way to get the air intake temps below 100*?
The turbo radial cars my friends have have intake temps in the 70-80 degree range. But they have BIG underdash intercoolers. It's HUGE power for them to get them that low. But boost is on the order of 20-35psi depending on the track, and that make 1500-2200 hp. But I would think the same principle should apply.
Also, who makes converters for these cars?
Just like the 03/04 Cobra's the supercharger itself is the culprite for the high temps. It uses the Laminova core design and thats one of the main areas where it lacks. We offer a bigger heat exchanger w/ fans that helps keep the temps down and a fluid reservoir that helps prolong the amount of time it takes to get to the higher temps by adding more fluid to the system. Those 2 things help greatly, but you get to the point of where the intercooler cores can't keep up with dispelling the heat from the air passing though them. We've added Methanol on top of this to help keep the air temps down.
The systems on those 1500hp cars are VERY large on not very practical for an average street car. Those cars also have Fluid reservoirs that you can add ice to, and I half thought of making one for these cars, but not enough cadillac guys drag these cars.
The converters are custom built through us, the lowest stall is still 300-400 higher than stock. I wouldn't recc. going higher than that for a street car. They have billet housings and are tough as nails.
The systems on those 1500hp cars are VERY large on not very practical for an average street car. Those cars also have Fluid reservoirs that you can add ice to, and I half thought of making one for these cars, but not enough cadillac guys drag these cars.
The converters are custom built through us, the lowest stall is still 300-400 higher than stock. I wouldn't recc. going higher than that for a street car. They have billet housings and are tough as nails.
Yeah you're right about the ice thing, they'll go through roughly 50-70lbs of ice a night at the races. But we're not talking about near the power or the heat generated.
I haven't looked closely at all, is the fluid for the intercooler independent of the engine cooling system? If it isn't is there a practical way of doing so? On the methanol front.. is like the "ice man" stuff the cobra guy run? Like a boost sensative valve the will introduce the (I assume) 50/50 mix into the intake track? Or is there a pump involved?
Seems like there could be a way to attack the heat problem in a practical manner, with little impact on daily driving, but have more than modest gains when you want to put the hammer down.
Intercooler thought... Is there a way to set up something similar to the vortech aftercooler thing that was out years ago?
Is there a place/site I can go to see how the supercharger is set up on these motors? Like an exploded view, with parts labled?
Is there a place/site I can go to see how the supercharger is set up on these motors? Like an exploded view, with parts labled?
The heat exchanger IS seperate from the engine cooling system.
The methanol system is similar to the ice man stuff. It uses a pump to inject 50/50 meth into the intake tract when it reaches a certain rpm(it can be set anywhere you want it to with different jet sizes).
The system we developed is for that intended purpose, it does bring down the intercooler temps a fair amount on a stock un boosted vehicle.
The Vortech aftercooler(if it's the same one im thinking of) was designed for a centrifical style blower that has an actual air pipe between the charger and the intake manifold. The STS-V has no intake tract between the charger and the intake manifold as it's all one unit.
I'll see if I can come up with an exploded view, but it would have to be monday as I have a car to finish right now.
I got to thinking after I posted about the set up and you're right in your assumption. I was thinking about that after cooler. This is an issue more along the lines of the 03-04 cobra thing.
SO.. What are the basic components here? Super charger, intercooler core, external heat exchanger, cooling lines, coolant/fluid pump, and the lines?
The problem- Heat. So who makes more efficient intercooler cores and heat exchangers? Anyone? Is it the same style blower as the cobras use? Might be a place to look?
Is there a better liquid that can be used to draw the heat out? Could something like water wetter be added?
You mentioned fans and stuff. where are they on the car? Are there stock ones?
Thanks for the look up on the view!:thumbsup:
The supercharger is the same as the cobra except its flipped upside down. The Cobra uses a replaceable stack plate inter-cooler core, the STS-V uses Laminova cores... there are no upgrades to these that I can see due to their design. As far as fluid, I dont think much more can be done other than adding water wetter, we use purple ice... The factory heat exchanger set up is in front on the A/C condenser, the stock set up does not have fans on it, it utilizes the draw through from the standard cooling fans or moving air while driving. We use a large cooling fan(dual mini's on the XLR-V) to push a large amount of air through the upgraded heat exchanger.
Here are some images of the supercharger taken apart and of our upgraded heat exchanger w/ fan as well as our fluid reservoir
Now keep in mind, the fluid reservoir doesn't cool the fluid, it just adds more fluid to the system to prolong heat soak, it takes the fluid MUCH longer to get hot. So once the fluid get to its normal operating temp of 120-140 it will stay there...allowing you to say make 2-3 back to back runs at the track, multiple passes on the dyno, or for the road course guys a few more consistent lap times.
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