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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all:

Haven't been on these forums for quite a while, mainly because I had no issues with my Escalade ESV or CTS, so I will make up for it with a rather long post.

I have followed Voltec and ELR development since seeing the original concept car at the NY Auto show. My one fear was GM would screw the pooch by pricing it at 60-65K. Instead, they just killed the dog.

Fast forward to this weekend. I see people saying they got 20+ off MSRP before Fed tax credit. I go to cars.com and see listings in the high 40s and i send off three inquiries to dealers that who have features/colors I like to ask if the price includes the tax credit. All three called me within minutes and say that the tax credit is not included. One who is halfway across the country said they might be willing to pay for shipping.

So I make an appointment to drive the car tomorrow at one of the dealers who is a reasonable drive from my home. Then I get a call from of the cross-country guy, whose car has Luxury and Adaptive cruise MSRP 79+. He says he and the GM have spoken with the President of the dealership. who says move the car. They offer it to me for 38,500 and will pay shipping. I thank him, hang up the phone thinking this must include the 7500 tax credit. I call him back immediately and he says it does not.

I have owned many cars of various makes over the years, but I have never been offered anything like a 79K car for 40K off. With the Fed credit this is effectively 31K. The car is new with no miles. I have checked the dealer and they have very good reviews.

This seems too good to be true. What am I missing?
 

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13 V Coupe Thunder Gray
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Your right it does sound too good to be true so just tell me the dealers name and I'll handle it from there.

Seriously though that sounds like the best deal I have heard yet and I think you should jump on it and if you don't want it pass it along to me because I have been looking for a deal like that with no luck yet.

SBB
.
 

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'02 ETC CE, '04 CTS-V, '04 XLR, '13 XTS Platinum
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Titus-Will in Olympia, WA. has three priced under 45k at the present time. Good luck!

CC
 

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13 V Coupe Thunder Gray
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cc:

I checked those but they include the 7500 in their price.
Ya a lot of dealers are doing that lately which I'm pretty sure is illegal to do since federal tax credits are not supposed to be included in a final advertised price since everyone's tax situation is different and someone may not actually qualify for the $7,500 credit or not all of it at least.
That's how it works in my state at least.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Surprise, surprise! Called dealer first thing this morning and told salesman I was on my way to a local dealership to drive the car and would be ready to do the deal later in the day. He's all excited. Got a call back before I got to my test drive and was informed that the president of dealership said it was a Saturday only deal. New price was now xx thousand more. Told them to enjoy their ELRs as I would not be doing the deal. I heard Bugs Bunny saying to me, "What a maroon! You didn't really think those joiks would sell you the car for that, didja?"

First impressions from a Cadillac owner who drove the Volt a few years back and had a Tesla S on preorder about a year, test drove it multiple times and finally cancelled. I see what critics say about not so much power, but I don't care...there are other cars to get tickets in. After reading all the vitriol about CUE, I liked it better than competing systems on cars I have owned from MB, BMW, Lexus, Audi and Jaguar. Exterior is slick, although i saw it at the NY car show so I didn't knock me over. Interior was sumptuous...only thing I've seen under 100K that tops it is the Jag XJ. Back seat is fine for groceries and carryon stuff. But the way the salesman kept claiming there was plenty of room, just getting in and out is difficult, was just silly. Salesman was quite knowledgeable about the car but it was pretty much party line. I learned more by reading the threads here.

My bottom line is that even in the mid/high 40s before Fed tax credit, this is one heckuva commuter car. Now I just have to find an honest dealer.
 

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2014 ELR
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I went through the same sort of BS. I ended up buying a Volt. There are still old-style scumbag dealers out there... and they just didn't want my money.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Found a dealer three hours away who has five (count 'em!) ELRs in stock. Aggressive but realistic posted internet prices and willing to deal from there. Will be driving there on Sat, weather permitting.

They have one with the Kona leather option. It looks nice in pictures but I haven't seen it in person. Any owners here have an opinion on Kona with black accents? Noticeably better quality leather? I think I read that Kona gives full leather, not just seating surfaces, and some extra adjustments on seats. I probably wouldn't pay 2K+ for it at retail but I suspect only a fraction of that will make it to the bottom line a today's deals.

TIA
 

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ELR
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I have the Kona package and I must say I really love it. You are right the seats are more adjustable, they smell great and are very soft. The best part is the color though. It looks amazing in person and it is probably the most frequent compliment I get when people look inside. They always say I love that color leather. Is it worth $2450 for some it might be. Funny thing, when I was buying I looked at the Escalade and to get the Kona leather on the Escalade it is less expensive and I bet it needs a lot more leather.
 

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Found a dealer three hours away who has five (count 'em!) ELRs in stock. Aggressive but realistic posted internet prices and willing to deal from there. Will be driving there on Sat, weather permitting.
My $0.02...

Don't go to the dealer! Once he knows you have driven 3 hours to get there they will be much less aggressive in discounting. Do all the negotiating via email this week and tell them you will come to pick it up once you've agreed to a price. By negotiating via email the dealer has to assume you are doing the same thing with other dealers all equally or more desperate to sell this car. Also don't get on the phone with them. They basically try to recreate the unpleasant in-store process over the phone ("let me check with my manager, blah, blah, blah"). Negotiating over anything is primarily about obtaining and keeping the leverage in the discussion. Right now you have all the leverage as they are desperate to sell this car. By going to the dealer you are giving up some of your leverage and will therefore not get the best deal possible.

Anyway, good luck and let us know how it goes.
 

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2017 XT5 Premium Luxury - Dark Adriatic Blue/Cirrus (past - '11 SRX, '14 ELR)
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I concur.... Once they have you in the door, you're done. I'm usually set even before that, so I HAVE to stay away to get a halfway decent deal!
One thing I also worry about is if I have a trade, which I usually do. If I drive 90 miles for a deal, I'm pretty damn sure they're going to try and make it up on trade.
Its not news to anyone here, but I always tell people, "Never forget, the dealership is in business to make money".... And they know a whole lot more ways to do it than we do... I remember negotiating one my wifes car a week after my ELR. Not to mention how crappy it was sitting at a little table at the VW dealer, vs a nice office with fresh coffee at the Cadillac dealer, if that kid begged me ONE MORE TIME to reconsider on 'paint protection' I was gonna strangle him! I've never seen it before, but in my opinion, he had no problem losing the sale by pushing the dealer add-ons too much.... And that was BEFORE we got to finance!
 

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I bought mine in September for $24K below invoice. I started asking $25K below invoice. I went online and found all the ELR's in 100 miles and could tell the date of manufacture from the VIN and therefore had a pretty good guess as to how long they had been sitting on various lots and specifically targeted the oldest. I went in to each dealer (5 of them) with my deal and told them what I wanted. If they didn't play I left. Ultimately one played. Something must have happened recently because 3 of the dealers that didn't want to play with me have all called back in the last month and a half or so willing to get closer to my original ask.
BTW: I am very happy with this car choice so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the advice. I've had over 20 cars and have experienced just about all the tricks of the trade. The thing is, I like to drive and have no problem driving three hours to see the Kona leather in person. When dealers play games, it is priceless to see the reactions when I say "This isn't gong to happen" stand up and walk out. I'll simply head out to a good local restaurant knowing that they will still have 5 ELRs on their lot and I still have the $$$ in my bank. Every once in a while, I come upon an honest dealer and we sit down and work out a deal that is fair to both parties. Every car I've bought or leased is at or close to the best deal available.
 

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I almost bought a car from Oklahoma that was black with kona, they had the best deal on the car, but were far less on my trade in than the local dealer I bought from.
 

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Thanks for the advice. I've had over 20 cars and have experienced just about all the tricks of the trade. The thing is, I like to drive and have no problem driving three hours to see the Kona leather in person. When dealers play games, it is priceless to see the reactions when I say "This isn't gong to happen" stand up and walk out. I'll simply head out to a good local restaurant knowing that they will still have 5 ELRs on their lot and I still have the $$$ in my bank. Every once in a while, I come upon an honest dealer and we sit down and work out a deal that is fair to both parties. Every car I've bought or leased is at or close to the best deal available.
Fair enough... just make sure you leave them your email address and tell them to contact you when they want to get serious. I'll take odds that less than 2 weeks later they will be begging you to buy at your terms :D
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well, cars.com still shows 560 available. Given that a large part of the country has horrible weather at the moment, I can't imagine many of them going anywhere in the next week or two. In fact, it looks like snow will postpone my scheduled trip tomorrow.
 

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Well, cars.com still shows 560 available. Given that a large part of the country has horrible weather at the moment, I can't imagine many of them going anywhere in the next week or two. In fact, it looks like snow will postpone my scheduled trip tomorrow.
Looks like they're selling through at a rate of a couple hundred per month - that's relatively fast given the previous rate barely blipped 100.

I recently picked mine up (luxury + adaptive cruise) for $47.9k after GM rebates (including $2k loyalty) but BEFORE any tax credits.

The car had <20 miles on it, zero blemishes.

Like you, I've bought more than 20 cars - made plenty of mistakes too :)

There is a small handful of similarly equipped ELRs that might be a few thousand $ less than I paid; I travelled a bit and researched those cars - all that I saw were demos, had more than 200 miles on them, in one case - had bodywork done to it, another had a cracked center stack screen.

There's a bit of a floor at $50k on loaded ELRs ($48k after GM loyalty cash, $40.5k after fed; in my case, 39k after state rebate). Add or subtract $2-4k for state differences, lux, adaptive cruise.

I worked with nearly a dozen dealers to work them to the 50k price; most stop at $52-55k depending on equipment (before loyalty or tax rebates). That's still a great price on an ELR.

I can say this: the car is an absolute head-turner. It's easily the nicest interior of any car we've owned, and the list for our garage is dominated by Audi.

I'd buy the car all over again for $5k more; in CA, there's no better luxury vehicle that has an HOV sticker - including the Tesla.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
@Bavarian13

Thanks for the thorough analysis. I am a computer geek and research everything to death. I am finding pretty much the same numbers. I have a few legitimate listings sub $50K loaded but without Kona. The biggest issue I have found is the "sales price" including the Fed tax credit, which is misleading if not fraudulent. And then there are the doc fees. They are are capped at $75 in NY but no cap in surrounding states. Bozos last week wanted $700. As a previous responder posted, when I do line up a deal I will get everything in writing before heading to the dealership.

I also plan to stop at CarMax and get a 7 day quote. I have come to detest the trade-in charade at dealerships. I'll give them one shot to match CarMax or they're done.
 

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@Bavarian13

Thanks for the thorough analysis. I am a computer geek and research everything to death. I am finding pretty much the same numbers. I have a few legitimate listings sub $50K loaded but without Kona. The biggest issue I have found is the "sales price" including the Fed tax credit, which is misleading if not fraudulent. And then there are the doc fees. They are are capped at $75 in NY but no cap in surrounding states. Bozos last week wanted $700. As a previous responder posted, when I do line up a deal I will get everything in writing before heading to the dealership.

I also plan to stop at CarMax and get a 7 day quote. I have come to detest the trade-in charade at dealerships. I'll give them one shot to match CarMax or they're done.
Since dealers are dumping the ELRs, they will work even harder to salvage any profit in the deal. I'd take the trade out of the picture as it complicates the numbers even more than they already are -- and an aggressive sale can easily turn into a sour deal.

In my case, I walked out on what I thought was a crappy tradein value. Came back the next day with no trade in the deal; FNI worked Lojack, paint protection and warranty a helluva lot more than usual, all declined of course.

Is Kona a must have? If so, you can expect to add $1-2k to many of these quoted deals - I'd be very surprised if it gets discounted to ~$0 like ACC seems to be.

Good luck in the hunt.
 
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