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Discussion Starter #1
I know there have been various discussions regarding the pricing gap between the ATS and CTS and how GM over priced the CTS and therefore priced some of us (me included) out of the CTS market. Anyway just came across an article which said that GM kind of admitted its pricing error by changing the pricing structure of its 2015 CTS by not only lowering the price, but including the panoramic sunroof and navigation on the luxury trim at no addition cost.

When are they going to figure out that buyers these days are more savy-especially with regard to price and value-and that one thing that will turn them off faster than anything is that if they think they are being taken advantage of.
 

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Cadillac's problem is that they made the ATS the entry level sedan when the CTS was that before. Therefore it was a perception problem when the CTS (which should have been STS or a different name) was priced higher.
 

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When are they going to figure it out? It's been decades, and they haven't yet. So there's no reason to think they are suddenly going to have an epiphany--unless being in NYC is somehow helpful to the process.
 

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tex2670 said:
When are they going to figure it out? It's been decades, and they haven't yet. So there's no reason to think they are suddenly going to have an epiphany--unless being in NYC is somehow helpful to the process.
They have much to fix but the new naming system will help. In addition they got the most important part figured out; making a desirable high quality car that best much of the competition. Now, the new advertising campaign that tells the story and will be in business.

I've been car shopping last month and looked at BMW and Audi and they're A3, A4. BMW 3-4 5 are priced confusing just like Cadillac pricing. Meaning you can take a BMW 3 and outfitted with options and the price jumps to that of a a BMW 5. Ditto Audi. So when you think about the ATS versus CTS Cadillac has done exactly what the major luxury car makers have been doing . The German brands have been successful with this model and I don't see anyone ever complaining . The reason is people want those German brands and that's where the new Cadillac advertising needs to come into place. create an image of high luxury , desirability , and that's exactly what the new CEO has been talking about. It's already mid February it's time to start seeing some action !
 

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So us saying they need to provide a better car for less money is something they never thought of? I think the current ATS and CTS are the best cars they have ever produced so they have at least figured some things out.
 

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They have much to fix but the new naming system will help. In addition they got the most important part figured out; making a desirable high quality car that best much of the competition. Now, the new advertising campaign that tells the story and will be in business.

I've been car shopping last month and looked at BMW and Audi and they're A3, A4. BMW 3-4 5 are priced confusing just like Cadillac pricing. Meaning you can take a BMW 3 and outfitted with options and the price jumps to that of a a BMW 5. Ditto Audi. So when you think about the ATS versus CTS Cadillac has done exactly what the major luxury car makers have been doing . The German brands have been successful with this model and I don't see anyone ever complaining . The reason is people want those German brands and that's where the new Cadillac advertising needs to come into place. create an image of high luxury , desirability , and that's exactly what the new CEO has been talking about. It's already mid February it's time to start seeing some action !
I don't think the pricing is "confusing"; you can very easily load up the options list. German brands are successful with this model because they have a long history of being top quality and desirable brands. Should I have to pay extra on a BMW for a back up camera, proximity key and HID headlights when Sentras and Corlloas come with this--I would say "no", but BMW gets away with it because they know they can because of their reputation. Caddy's brand image was tarnished in the 80s and 90s. Now they are producing quality products again, but they jump to the German pricing model, which I find to be a mistake. I've said for while that I thought Caddy should give you more for the same $$ as the Germans to entice more German make shoppers; and once word gets out, they can let the prices creep up into German equivalent range. Maybe my idea doesn't work, but I know that Caddy's current strategy has not worked either.

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So us saying they need to provide a better car for less money is something they never thought of? I think the current ATS and CTS are the best cars they have ever produced so they have at least figured some things out.
I'm sure they thought of it, and then dismissed it. But given the state their sales are in, they may just need to revisit all the ideas they rejected previously. I don't see how renaming the entire lineup suddenly makes them a more desirable choice.
 

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At this point, Cadillac doesn't offer anything less than the Germans offer other than maybe better dealership experiences (in some cases), brand image, and racing heritage.

I'd love to see a new LMP...one that perhaps is competitive this time around?
 

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I don't think the pricing is "confusing"; you can very easily load up the options list. German brands are successful with this model because they have a long history of being top quality and desirable brands. Should I have to pay extra on a BMW for a back up camera, proximity key and HID headlights when Sentras and Corlloas come with this--I would say "no", but BMW gets away with it because they know they can because of their reputation. Caddy's brand image was tarnished in the 80s and 90s. Now they are producing quality products again, but they jump to the German pricing model, which I find to be a mistake. I've said for while that I thought Caddy should give you more for the same $$ as the Germans to entice more German make shoppers; and once word gets out, they can let the prices creep up into German equivalent range. Maybe my idea doesn't work, but I know that Caddy's current strategy has not worked either.

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I'm sure they thought of it, and then dismissed it. But given the state their sales are in, they may just need to revisit all the ideas they rejected previously. I don't see how renaming the entire lineup suddenly makes them a more desirable choice.
the new names have nothing to do with making them more desirable....and everything to do with making the lineup iPhone easy to understand and thus remove a mental roadblock...there are people unwilling to study the alphabet soup of a brand in order to understand what they are looking at....the current naming is a failure......nobody knows what an STS was, what an ELR is and worst of all nobody knows what an ATS is and ATS is supposed to be the bread and butter car....all too often at gas stations and restaurant parking lots i fall into this conversation....person-"Beautiful car what is it?"..me-"an ATS"....person-"whats that?" or person-"is that the new CTS?"..me-"No it's the ATS"..person-"Never heard of it"....FAIL, FAIL, FAIL .....DTS, STS, XLR, CTS, BLS, XTS, ELR, ATS....all FAIL because it takes work people are unwilling to expend to figure it out

most of us already know that 2 is better than 1 and 3 is better than 2......so at a glance a prospective buyer will have an understanding that a CT6 is somehow better than a CT4 even if they do not know why yet

bottom line Cadillac has been doing the 3 letter thing for over a decade and people still don't know what it all means, but 3 series, 5 series, 7 series people get, they also get A3, A4, A5, A6, A8.....similiarly in 10 years time CT6, CT8 will be better understood than what Caddy is doing today.
 

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I agree totally. Truthfully I havent met 1 person that knew what my car was. People say they had a loaner like mine. I said an ATS? They say a CTS. It's pretty sad that people do not know what an ATS is. People that love cars know what it is. And those people have some type of drivers car them selves. Theses guys know what it is and want to race me. Revving and staring at me. I give them what they want because they really want my car. Well drop that thing your driving and get one. Don't test me because you are hating on my car.
the new names have nothing to do with making them more desirable....and everything to do with making the lineup iPhone easy to understand and thus remove a mental roadblock...there are people unwilling to study the alphabet soup of a brand in order to understand what they are looking at....the current naming is a failure......nobody knows what an STS was, what an ELR is and worst of all nobody knows what an ATS is and ATS is supposed to be the bread and butter car....all too often at gas stations and restaurant parking lots i fall into this conversation....person-"Beautiful car what is it?"..me-"an ATS"....person-"whats that?" or person-"is that the new CTS?"..me-"No it's the ATS"..person-"Never heard of it"....FAIL, FAIL, FAIL .....DTS, STS, XLR, CTS, BLS, XTS, ELR, ATS....all FAIL because it takes work people are unwilling to expend to figure it out

most of us already know that 2 is better than 1 and 3 is better than 2......so at a glance a prospective buyer will have an understanding that a CT6 is somehow better than a CT4 even if they do not know why yet

bottom line Cadillac has been doing the 3 letter thing for over a decade and people still don't know what it all means, but 3 series, 5 series, 7 series people get, they also get A3, A4, A5, A6, A8.....similiarly in 10 years time CT6, CT8 will be better understood than what Caddy is doing today.
 

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the new names have nothing to do with making them more desirable....and everything to do with making the lineup iPhone easy to understand and thus remove a mental roadblock...there are people unwilling to study the alphabet soup of a brand in order to understand what they are looking at....the current naming is a failure......nobody knows what an STS was, what an ELR is and worst of all nobody knows what an ATS is and ATS is supposed to be the bread and butter car....all too often at gas stations and restaurant parking lots i fall into this conversation....person-"Beautiful car what is it?"..me-"an ATS"....person-"whats that?" or person-"is that the new CTS?"..me-"No it's the ATS"..person-"Never heard of it"....FAIL, FAIL, FAIL .....DTS, STS, XLR, CTS, BLS, XTS, ELR, ATS....all FAIL because it takes work people are unwilling to expend to figure it out

most of us already know that 2 is better than 1 and 3 is better than 2......so at a glance a prospective buyer will have an understanding that a CT6 is somehow better than a CT4 even if they do not know why yet

bottom line Cadillac has been doing the 3 letter thing for over a decade and people still don't know what it all means, but 3 series, 5 series, 7 series people get, they also get A3, A4, A5, A6, A8.....similiarly in 10 years time CT6, CT8 will be better understood than what Caddy is doing today.
I agree totally. Truthfully I havent met 1 person that knew what my car was. People say they had a loaner like mine. I said an ATS? They say a CTS. It's pretty sad that people do not know what an ATS is. People that love cars know what it is. And those people have some type of drivers car them selves. Theses guys know what it is and want to race me. Revving and staring at me. I give them what they want because they really want my car. Well drop that thing your driving and get one. Don't test me because you are hating on my car.
Ok--people can do simple math and know that 6 is greater than 4, and probably more expensive. But how does that make them "know" what the car is? People knew CTS because it's been around for over a decade, and the ATS only for 3 model years. How does changing the names make people suddenly recognize the "CT6" as a quality car to cross shop? Won't they still say "You mean CTS?" People don't know ATS because most people don't read car magazines, and don't take Cadillac as a serious competitor to German sedans--whether they want a performance oriented vehicle, or just a "nice" luxurious car to show off to their friends and neighbors.

I hope the name change works for Caddy, because they are putting out good products, but I'm skeptical. Infiniti just did this, and other than the Q50, I have no idea what each model's new name translates to. When Audi switched to the A__ format, they only had 3 models.
 

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Let me be more clear. I really don't think at all changing the name of the ats or cts is going to make people know what they are. In my case after 3 years people still don't know what an ats is and I don't get that. I can almost bet there are people with a caddy that don't know what an ats is. Matter of fact my aunt and uncle have a sts and at a get together they thought is was a cts. I don't know I guess some people pay attention and others don't care about cars. Cars are freedom might as well get the best you can.
Ok--people can do simple math and know that 6 is greater than 4, and probably more expensive. But how does that make them "know" what the car is? People knew CTS because it's been around for over a decade, and the ATS only for 3 model years. How does changing the names make people suddenly recognize the "CT6" as a quality car to cross shop? Won't they still say "You mean CTS?" People don't know ATS because most people don't read car magazines, and don't take Cadillac as a serious competitor to German sedans--whether they want a performance oriented vehicle, or just a "nice" luxurious car to show off to their friends and neighbors.

I hope the name change works for Caddy, because they are putting out good products, but I'm skeptical. Infiniti just did this, and other than the Q50, I have no idea what each model's new name translates to. When Audi switched to the A__ format, they only had 3 models.
 

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Ok--people can do simple math and know that 6 is greater than 4, and probably more expensive. But how does that make them "know" what the car is? People knew CTS because it's been around for over a decade, and the ATS only for 3 model years. How does changing the names make people suddenly recognize the "CT6" as a quality car to cross shop? Won't they still say "You mean CTS?" People don't know ATS because most people don't read car magazines, and don't take Cadillac as a serious competitor to German sedans--whether they want a performance oriented vehicle, or just a "nice" luxurious car to show off to their friends and neighbors.

I hope the name change works for Caddy, because they are putting out good products, but I'm skeptical. Infiniti just did this, and other than the Q50, I have no idea what each model's new name translates to. When Audi switched to the A__ format, they only had 3 models.
renaming won't tell anyone anything....it will get rid of a senseless mess of alphabet soup and bring a simple structure to naming that will correlate to a hierarchy of cars...that's it....less time explaining the cars names more time explaining the cars, and more likely the explanation will stick with a name

is the name the end of the world? ...nope

is this a very minor thing?...yep.....but if Caddy keeps tackling little things, pretty soon they will have accomplished a lot.
 

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I agree with the new naming convention, it means something and has some logic behind it that the average buyer can understand. Buyer, "Ok I looked at the CT3 and it is too small, I understand the CT6 is bigger and more expensive", pretty easy to understand. Currently ATS, CTS, ELR, XLR, etc. to most it looks like the names were picked at random.

Wife cares almost nothing about cars, I owned an Audi A3, she had a friend who got an A4, even she new it was a bigger, more expensive car.

I also don't think this is there biggest problem but one pretty easy to fix and will pay off long term as long as they stick to it.
 

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I think there are a lot of folks that would look at the Mercedes C-Class and think, that is "just a C class". This is the perception instead of seeing the C class as the smaller nimble car, an ATS, A3, or 3-series competitor. I would bet most folks, Benz owner or not, find the C-Class to be for someone who could only afford the cheapest Benz. The general public does not understand individual car models, but rather just brand recognition.

Cadillac can name the cars anything, but they have to turn out quality products that receive favorable reviews against their competition, consistently. I'm sure they can, and then other folks will recognize the car models. Sales haven't exactly put enough ATS's on the road to make it easy to identify yet.
 

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Wife cares almost nothing about cars, I owned an Audi A3, she had a friend who got an A4, even she new it was a bigger, more expensive car.
Some wives would not be satisfied with an A8.
 

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I agree with the new naming convention, it means something and has some logic behind it that the average buyer can understand. Buyer, "Ok I looked at the CT3 and it is too small, I understand the CT6 is bigger and more expensive", pretty easy to understand. Currently ATS, CTS, ELR, XLR, etc. to most it looks like the names were picked at random.

Wife cares almost nothing about cars, I owned an Audi A3, she had a friend who got an A4, even she new it was a bigger, more expensive car.

I also don't think this is there biggest problem but one pretty easy to fix and will pay off long term as long as they stick to it.
I don't know..."A" comes in the alphabet before "C" which comes before "X". ATS, CTS, XTS. I'm not sure why that's so confusing, other than Caddy only left "Y" and "Z" to slot in a true flagship vehicle above the XTS. I would be surprised if the ELR goes into the straight "CT__" naming; wouldn't Caddy want to make it more clear it's an electric hybrid? XLR is dead anyway.

Lexus has had ES, IS, GS and LS for years, and they seem to be doing fine. Why? Because they have a reputation for making great cars. If someone *wants* a Cadillac (or any other brand), it's really no effort in this day and age to figure out in 5 minutes if they have a model in line with your needs, regardless of what it's named. Buyers want BMWs, Audis and Lexus'. Not enough buyers, at this point, want a Cadillac, regardless of what it is named (other than Escalade...).

Caddy is the only GM brand that had a sales decline, year over year, in 2014, and the Escalade is the only Caddy vehicle that had sales increases. No other GM brand uses alpha numeric naming, and they all had sales increases and no one appears to be "confused" when buying a Buick. So, I just don't get it.
 

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I don't know..."A" comes in the alphabet before "C" which comes before "X". ATS, CTS, XTS. I'm not sure why that's so confusing
Maybe Cadillac is targeting people who can count to 6 but don't know the alphabet?
 

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I don't know..."A" comes in the alphabet before "C" which comes before "X". ATS, CTS, XTS. I'm not sure why that's so confusing, other than Caddy only left "Y" and "Z" to slot in a true flagship vehicle above the XTS.
It was just mostly a coincidence that the ATS, CTS, and XTS are sorted alphabetically, in the same order that if you wanted to sort them based on their size! Once there was a Cadillac named Catera. CTS originally stood for Catera Touring Sedan, (pretty much similiar to DTS, which stands for Deville Touring Sedan, and STS stands for Seville Touring Sedan). When designers and engineers were preparing the very first car that today we know as XTS, they didn't know what it will be named. But they knew that it will follow the same naming style, XTS, where X is a placeholder for the actual letter. Bob Lutz walked in an saw the XTS, and he thought "X" is the letter X, and he said, huh, XTS sounds very good, I like it! Let's call this car XTS.

And let's dont forget STS and DTS! D comes before S, but DTS was larger than the STS.
 
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