Hi all...This question has probably been asked many times already, but I need to ask. Will the 2.0 turbocharged engine run on regular fuel? What are the consequences of not using premium? Thanks in advance!
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rockinstephen
Although the manual says you can use regular, it will definitely run like "chit." You'll also lose some MPGs, almost completely negating any savings from the lower cost fuel. On top of that, because of the extra knock and the engine running hotter, there will probably be more issues down the road (most likely outside the warranty period which is why Cadillac says it's OK).
The 2.0T will operate on regular fuel without blowing up BUT it was designed to run on premium grade fuel and will only operate as the designers originally intended burning premium. If you want to drive it like grandma and also take care to avoid situations of low to moderate RPM with high torque loading (stay one to two gears lower than you normally would in that situation with either the manual or driving the automatic in manual mode) then it will be fine but then you aren't getting the performance and driving experience that was intended.
I suspect that the designer engineers at GM powertrain would have preferred labeling this engine as premium fuel only rather than premium recommended but that means the EPA estimated annual cost of driving would have been higher and it would have taken away from referring to this engine as economical and powerful. With electronic engine control and knock sensors modern engines can self-protect under most conditions by pulling timing as needed and current controllers also take owner throttle input only as a suggestion while the controller determines how much engine torque to command so you aren't going to hurt the engine. But if I owned the 2.0T I would run it with regular fuel only if premium weren't available.
Even with my naturally aspirated 3.6 it will have a light "spark knock" under low RPM/higher torque conditions running 87 octane due to the way the 6L45 is commanded into higher gears at low speed for better fuel economy and I usually run 89 mid grade in mine. The LT4 in my Corvette (supercharged 6.2 V8) drinks 93 only except for the next couple of tanks this time of year will be 91 octane because that is the highest grade ethanol free I can get in this area and I want the alcohol out of the fuel system before it is stored over winter. With the extreme performance summer tires on the Corvette the LT4 won't be running with high throttle input in this last few weeks of driving because this temperature is far below the 80 degree and above where the tires begin to have normal grip. The LT4 has a factory optional 100 octane map but with that setup 93 octane is the absolute minimum it can safely run so I am staying with its original settings.
My diesel pickup just gets good quality diesel since unlike gasoline engines the desire is to have the diesel ignite forcefully rather than the slow controlled burn of a gas engine. Clatter from the fuel ignition event is good in the diesel engine but not for gas.
There is often a big difference between what the design engineers would prefer to communicate and what the company to customer interface people are willing to promote/recommend.
I suspect that the designer engineers at GM powertrain would have preferred labeling this engine as premium fuel only rather than premium recommended but that means the EPA estimated annual cost of driving would have been higher and it would have taken away from referring to this engine as economical and powerful. With electronic engine control and knock sensors modern engines can self-protect under most conditions by pulling timing as needed and current controllers also take owner throttle input only as a suggestion while the controller determines how much engine torque to command so you aren't going to hurt the engine. But if I owned the 2.0T I would run it with regular fuel only if premium weren't available.
Even with my naturally aspirated 3.6 it will have a light "spark knock" under low RPM/higher torque conditions running 87 octane due to the way the 6L45 is commanded into higher gears at low speed for better fuel economy and I usually run 89 mid grade in mine. The LT4 in my Corvette (supercharged 6.2 V8) drinks 93 only except for the next couple of tanks this time of year will be 91 octane because that is the highest grade ethanol free I can get in this area and I want the alcohol out of the fuel system before it is stored over winter. With the extreme performance summer tires on the Corvette the LT4 won't be running with high throttle input in this last few weeks of driving because this temperature is far below the 80 degree and above where the tires begin to have normal grip. The LT4 has a factory optional 100 octane map but with that setup 93 octane is the absolute minimum it can safely run so I am staying with its original settings.
My diesel pickup just gets good quality diesel since unlike gasoline engines the desire is to have the diesel ignite forcefully rather than the slow controlled burn of a gas engine. Clatter from the fuel ignition event is good in the diesel engine but not for gas.
There is often a big difference between what the design engineers would prefer to communicate and what the company to customer interface people are willing to promote/recommend.
If you knew up front the 2.0L turbo requires premium, don't think you can cheapen out and use regular.
My 3.6 CTS says regular is okay, but I could get better performance if I tried premium. I use regular. But the 2.0L says use premium only. I would Use only regular in an emergency.
If you are driving a Cadillac be prepared to pay what you need to for gas and maintenance. Likewise with MB, BMW or Porsche.
My 3.6 CTS says regular is okay, but I could get better performance if I tried premium. I use regular. But the 2.0L says use premium only. I would Use only regular in an emergency.
If you are driving a Cadillac be prepared to pay what you need to for gas and maintenance. Likewise with MB, BMW or Porsche.
The engine management systems monitor load and spark knock (knock sensor(s)) and alter ignition timing to compensate for fuel octane.
As posted, if you drive the car like Granny and don't need the potential performance, run a Top Tier regular. If you occasionally want yeeeehhaaaaa!!!!! run a Top Tier premium. Messing with intake boost and low octane = bad noises.
https://www.google.com/search?q=top...S730US730&oq=top+tier&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.7769j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8+
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...5.1754.2j13.15.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.15.1752...0i131k1j0i67k1.0.KiVQ8U-mV4o
As posted, if you drive the car like Granny and don't need the potential performance, run a Top Tier regular. If you occasionally want yeeeehhaaaaa!!!!! run a Top Tier premium. Messing with intake boost and low octane = bad noises.
https://www.google.com/search?q=top...S730US730&oq=top+tier&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.7769j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8+
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...5.1754.2j13.15.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.15.1752...0i131k1j0i67k1.0.KiVQ8U-mV4o
from the 2017 Manual: Copied and pasted -
Fuel (LTG 2.0L L4 Turbo
Engine)
Premium Recommended Fuel
Use premium 93 octane unleaded
gasoline in your vehicle. Unleaded
gasoline with an octane rating as low
as 87 may be used, but it will reduce
performance and fuel economy. See
Fuel (LGX 3.6L V6 Engines)
Regular Fuel
Use only unleaded gasoline rated
87 octane or higher in your vehicle.
Do not use gasoline with an octane
rating lower as it may result in vehicle
damage and lower fuel economy
Seems pretty clear they really want you to use premium in the 2.0t. Pez.
EDIT - Our 2.0 gets pretty good gas mileage, helping to off-set some of the price of the premium.
Fuel (LTG 2.0L L4 Turbo
Engine)
Premium Recommended Fuel
Use premium 93 octane unleaded
gasoline in your vehicle. Unleaded
gasoline with an octane rating as low
as 87 may be used, but it will reduce
performance and fuel economy. See
Fuel (LGX 3.6L V6 Engines)
Regular Fuel
Use only unleaded gasoline rated
87 octane or higher in your vehicle.
Do not use gasoline with an octane
rating lower as it may result in vehicle
damage and lower fuel economy
Seems pretty clear they really want you to use premium in the 2.0t. Pez.
EDIT - Our 2.0 gets pretty good gas mileage, helping to off-set some of the price of the premium.
Stephen, the 2.0T is currently one of GM's primary offerings and is used across a wide range of platforms. There were some minor teething pains in the earliest application but I think those have been solved.
As Pez notes the fuel economy helps offset the additional cost of premium. And I am not convinced that it is worth going with "Top Tier" gasoline suppliers because the high level of added cleaning agents which are primarily intended to clean the intake valves do nothing for direct injected engines since the intake valves are never exposed to fuel. Regular grade from a "Top Tier" licensed fuel station often costs nearly as much as regular grade from other stations and the additional detergent additive (along with paying the membership fee) is what differentiates Top Tier from other fuel suppliers. ALL gasoline sold in the U.S. has additives to clean the fuel system and the gasoline all travels through the same pipelines and distribution center regardless of its final pedigree.
You can add a bit of Techron to the fuel system periodically to help keep the injectors clean.
As Pez notes the fuel economy helps offset the additional cost of premium. And I am not convinced that it is worth going with "Top Tier" gasoline suppliers because the high level of added cleaning agents which are primarily intended to clean the intake valves do nothing for direct injected engines since the intake valves are never exposed to fuel. Regular grade from a "Top Tier" licensed fuel station often costs nearly as much as regular grade from other stations and the additional detergent additive (along with paying the membership fee) is what differentiates Top Tier from other fuel suppliers. ALL gasoline sold in the U.S. has additives to clean the fuel system and the gasoline all travels through the same pipelines and distribution center regardless of its final pedigree.
You can add a bit of Techron to the fuel system periodically to help keep the injectors clean.
The 2.0T engine will run perfectly fine on 87 octane fuel, hundreds of these cars are used in rental fleets and will live their entire life on 87 octane fuel. The engine will likely deliver less power under many conditions as the knock sensors will cause the ECU to reduce turbo boost due to the lower octane fuel. For many drivers they will never notice a difference. If you drive spirited than you will likely notice more high RPM power and more torque from the proper fuel.
Even the 3.6TT in the ATS-V runs fine on 87 octane. This was shown here in Florida when after Hurricane Irma many stations only had one type of fuel and after waiting 40 minutes in line to find out they only had 87 octane, you fill up, trust me. The local ATS-V and CTS-V community spoke up online and we found that for stock cars, no one had any issues.
Even the 3.6TT in the ATS-V runs fine on 87 octane. This was shown here in Florida when after Hurricane Irma many stations only had one type of fuel and after waiting 40 minutes in line to find out they only had 87 octane, you fill up, trust me. The local ATS-V and CTS-V community spoke up online and we found that for stock cars, no one had any issues.
Recently drove down to SC from NJ where I use only Costco 93 octane [87-93 only 2 choices 4% add discount with their card typically 45 cent+/- diff in 2 grades] off I95 most stations offer 89 octane as first choice above regular this is about 20 cents +/- more then big jump to higher grades, I doubt that 89 octane is considered premium grade by GM. just saying!
Where the heck is premium only 20 cents more per gallon than regular?!? Geez in my area it’s currently a dollar more PER GALLON. Crazy! Maybe you were stating mid grade is a 20 cent jump over regular, however in my area even that isn’t even close to reality. Currently at the closest Shell station to my house, even mid grade is 55 cents more than regular.
For once in my life I finally have a vehicle that uses regular grade fuel and that makes me happy. However,
I will say when it’s all said and done if you do the math on a vehicle that gets respectable fuel economy like the ATS, over the course of a year the difference is something like the equivalent of going out to a nice restaurant a few times. In other words, if that difference is stressing you out then a car like a 2013+ Cadillac probably isn’t the one for you.
For once in my life I finally have a vehicle that uses regular grade fuel and that makes me happy. However,
I will say when it’s all said and done if you do the math on a vehicle that gets respectable fuel economy like the ATS, over the course of a year the difference is something like the equivalent of going out to a nice restaurant a few times. In other words, if that difference is stressing you out then a car like a 2013+ Cadillac probably isn’t the one for you.
GM generally considers 91 octane and up to be premium. Running 87 with any spirited driving should pretty quickly kick you from "knock retard" (where the timing is retarded slightly to control knock) to the low octane map; 89 puts you in an area where it will likely stay with the high octane map with moderately spirited driving but 91 or 93 is preferred. Just because the engine is capable of protecting itself through a combination of dual octane maps and adjustable timing retard around those defined maps doesn't mean it is desirable to have the engine trying to protect itself; realize knock retard and change to the low octane map occurs AFTER multiple knock events have occurred with sustained knock forcing the change to a low octane map. In order for the engine controller to know when better fuel has been added it is frequently trying to advance timing to normal to check for knock and when it finds knock still present it will stay with the reduced timing settings so with low octane fuel coupled with anything but sedate driving you are subjecting the piston face, connecting rods, and the associated rod and main bearings to the negatives of an exploding rather than smoothly burning fuel/air charge.
A proper gasoline combustion event is when the flame front advances smoothly across the fuel/air charge from the ignition point at the plug tip. Excessive combustion chamber pressure for the octane level will result in rapid combustion events including self-ignition from hot spots in the combustion chamber. Note that oil residue in the air charge will effectively reduce the octane rating of fuel making knock even more likely under high combustion pressure.
I wouldn't hesitate to use 87 in a 2.0T if higher grade isn't available but I would also drive it accordingly and that means avoiding rapid acceleration or any situation where high torque is demanded, shift so that the engine stays higher than usual in its RPM range while accelerating. Direct injection allows a smooth burn with higher than historic combustion chamber pressure but GM is taking full advantage of that already with a high compression ratio combined with forced induction.
A proper gasoline combustion event is when the flame front advances smoothly across the fuel/air charge from the ignition point at the plug tip. Excessive combustion chamber pressure for the octane level will result in rapid combustion events including self-ignition from hot spots in the combustion chamber. Note that oil residue in the air charge will effectively reduce the octane rating of fuel making knock even more likely under high combustion pressure.
I wouldn't hesitate to use 87 in a 2.0T if higher grade isn't available but I would also drive it accordingly and that means avoiding rapid acceleration or any situation where high torque is demanded, shift so that the engine stays higher than usual in its RPM range while accelerating. Direct injection allows a smooth burn with higher than historic combustion chamber pressure but GM is taking full advantage of that already with a high compression ratio combined with forced induction.
The prices downstate are better than the Chicagoland area but the spread is still about 20 cents per gallon between grades. Chicago is a special EPA area requiring a distinct blend package for fuels and because of this the surrounding area also has somewhat higher prices since we often get the same special blends. But at least there are some ethanol free gas options downstate which are difficult to find in Chicago since ethanol is typically part of the oxygenate package for EPA special emissions regions/areas.
My lowly 2.5 runs on the tears of BMW owners. I collect them in volume at the cashier's office outside the service department at Irvine BMW
I believe they do still recommend that rsingl however it was not recommended to me any time over my 15 years with new BMW's.
My new 3 series $45K (all under 40k miles) developed a broken sub-frame that presented in a pronounced bang every time I accelerated, loss of power to the instrument panel, engine dying at idle, failed window motors and many other trim and electrical gremlins.
My new 6 series $107K (all under 38k miles) many iDrive infotainment reprograms, engine dying at idle (told it was normal), coolant leak, failed catalytic converter, myriad electrical and trim issues and the final straw: out of BB warranty with 37k miles I notice transmission fluid on my garage floor. I take it in and hear the PLASTIC access pan at the bottom of the transmission has cracked, a widely known failure point and design flaw. Repair cost $1,475. Denied my request for goodwill repair or discount.
In the forums and chatting with other owners in the service lounge (over latte's and scones) the horror stories were endless. The issues we hear here don't even come close..
My new 3 series $45K (all under 40k miles) developed a broken sub-frame that presented in a pronounced bang every time I accelerated, loss of power to the instrument panel, engine dying at idle, failed window motors and many other trim and electrical gremlins.
My new 6 series $107K (all under 38k miles) many iDrive infotainment reprograms, engine dying at idle (told it was normal), coolant leak, failed catalytic converter, myriad electrical and trim issues and the final straw: out of BB warranty with 37k miles I notice transmission fluid on my garage floor. I take it in and hear the PLASTIC access pan at the bottom of the transmission has cracked, a widely known failure point and design flaw. Repair cost $1,475. Denied my request for goodwill repair or discount.
In the forums and chatting with other owners in the service lounge (over latte's and scones)
the horror stories were endless. The issues we hear here don't even come close..
Sorry your BMWs haven't treated you better. They do make some beautiful machines.
I came very close to signing the papers for a gorgeous 335i in 2008 but I didn't like the evasive answers about whether they would be installing the additional oil cooler that BMW introduced to cure overheating issues. The original production 335i had too much engine in too little space and it would overheat easily in even mildly spirited driving; when I looked into it the first "solution" was a reflash to change the calibration of the oil temperature gauge and the point it went into limp mode allowing it to get even hotter before the warning was issued. Later a secondary oil cooler was fitted in the front wheel compartment. There was also a serious problem with the high pressure fuel pump failing (later resulting in a full recall) so I got nervous and bought a CTS instead.
The CTS was actually a better choice because the larger rear seat was better for my daughter who was still in a car seat at that time. But the turbo 6 engine and DCT of the 335i was a blast when I was test driving it.
I came very close to signing the papers for a gorgeous 335i in 2008 but I didn't like the evasive answers about whether they would be installing the additional oil cooler that BMW introduced to cure overheating issues. The original production 335i had too much engine in too little space and it would overheat easily in even mildly spirited driving; when I looked into it the first "solution" was a reflash to change the calibration of the oil temperature gauge and the point it went into limp mode allowing it to get even hotter before the warning was issued. Later a secondary oil cooler was fitted in the front wheel compartment. There was also a serious problem with the high pressure fuel pump failing (later resulting in a full recall) so I got nervous and bought a CTS instead.
The CTS was actually a better choice because the larger rear seat was better for my daughter who was still in a car seat at that time. But the turbo 6 engine and DCT of the 335i was a blast when I was test driving it.
Yes I remember both those issues with the 335i, widely known issues.
Growing up my parents drove high end Mercedes and their friends had Porsches, Audi's and Jag's. Always in for repairs always had problems.
The myth of vaunted German engineering is just that. I was willing to put up with issues when BMW's were truly the ultimate daily driver but they've lost most of the exceptional performance and driving dynamics that put them on the map. They sell on brand status and past reputation these days.
Growing up my parents drove high end Mercedes and their friends had Porsches, Audi's and Jag's. Always in for repairs always had problems.
The myth of vaunted German engineering is just that. I was willing to put up with issues when BMW's were truly the ultimate daily driver but they've lost most of the exceptional performance and driving dynamics that put them on the map. They sell on brand status and past reputation these days.
Because of my "ole school" way of thinking, I only run 93 octane Mobil in my 3.6 .. I'm figuring any motor that has a 11.5-1 compression ratio needs premium gas..
Before I bought the ATS, I owned a Grand Prix GTP with a supercharged 3.8 V6.. Guess what kind of gas I only used in it...
I don't believe in skipping on octane.. Cause remember this.. When your high tech motor turns it's timing back to save it's self.. It's doing so "AFTER" it's heard detonation.. Detonation is the absolute worst thing for inflicting punishment on a motor.. The absolute worst.. Even more so than way over revving ..
In my turbocharged and intercooled race car.. I only run 120 octane Renegade Race gas AND water/methanol injection.. Could I run less octane ?? I'll never know ..
Before I bought the ATS, I owned a Grand Prix GTP with a supercharged 3.8 V6.. Guess what kind of gas I only used in it...
I don't believe in skipping on octane.. Cause remember this.. When your high tech motor turns it's timing back to save it's self.. It's doing so "AFTER" it's heard detonation.. Detonation is the absolute worst thing for inflicting punishment on a motor.. The absolute worst.. Even more so than way over revving ..
In my turbocharged and intercooled race car.. I only run 120 octane Renegade Race gas AND water/methanol injection.. Could I run less octane ?? I'll never know
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I have had a salesman tell me he uses regular in his 2.0 ATS. Doesn't care because he doesn't drive fast and it's a lease.
I was at a closed Cadillac dealer on Sunday walking around. A guy was there washing a couple sold cars. He then took them for a drive.
I asked him if he drove them to get all water out of crevices. He said no, he went to fill them up with gas. I asked what kind.
He said regular. They were 2.0 CTS + 2.0 CT6.
I use premium because I like the best performance and I don't drive a lot of miles, so extra cost isn't a lot.
I was at a closed Cadillac dealer on Sunday walking around. A guy was there washing a couple sold cars. He then took them for a drive.
I asked him if he drove them to get all water out of crevices. He said no, he went to fill them up with gas. I asked what kind.
He said regular. They were 2.0 CTS + 2.0 CT6.
I use premium because I like the best performance and I don't drive a lot of miles, so extra cost isn't a lot.
Everyone really needs to stop with the hand wringing and the nose in the air attitudes. Premium sport sedan? Ha. It's a rental spec car with a 4 cylinder that you can currently pick up as a 5 model year old used car under $15k. 98% of owners could put 87 in and NEVER notice a difference. NEVER ever. All octane does is prevent detonation. A well maintained car shouldn't be detonating to begin with. I'm totally comfortable using 87 once the mercury dips below 50. I know that my car will never see an IAT north of 60 degrees for the next 5 months. There is 0% chance of a detonation event. At WOT, I don't notice much of a power decrease if any. If I can find an open dragstrip, I'll run the car, and I'll bet it's within a tenth of a second of my best ET!
I would recommend anyone that lives in a warmer climate to stick to 93, as detonation happens at higher temps, and needs to be mitigated by any means possible.
I would recommend anyone that lives in a warmer climate to stick to 93, as detonation happens at higher temps, and needs to be mitigated by any means possible.
The only one here being emotional and wringing their hands is you.
Cadillac is a premium car brand. The ATS is a sports sedan aimed at the BMW 3 series. The owner's manual says to use premium gas. If premium gasoline ruins your budget, buy a non-premium car that doesn't recommend premium gas - even regular gas might go up some day, so buy something alot cheaper. These things are very straightforward. Pez.
Cadillac is a premium car brand. The ATS is a sports sedan aimed at the BMW 3 series. The owner's manual says to use premium gas. If premium gasoline ruins your budget, buy a non-premium car that doesn't recommend premium gas - even regular gas might go up some day, so buy something alot cheaper. These things are very straightforward. Pez.
C'mon CTommy! Yes you can get a used ATS for 15K, but you can also get a used BMW 740iL for 18k (That's a $100K vehicle originally.) Depreciation doesn't change mechanical design intent. yes you can run 87 all day every day. you can also use non-synthetic oil, never change your diff oil, never change your air filter, oil filter, or rotate tires and it'll run just fine for much of its life. But if you want all 295ft-lbs all the time with no chance of engine damaging detonation in all conditions, you need higher octane.
I posted a story on HPTuners forum a few months ago about how i was on a fun afternoon spirited drive in the countryside and had to fill up with a brand i normally dont run. i immediately felt down on power so i plugged in my scanner and sure enough showed lots of knock. My car is far from stock, so not a baseline comparison, but i was so shocked at the difference, i went and bought one of those ethanol testers and tested 4 different gas stations to confirm my suspicions. The 93 fuel i bought was indeed much lower in octane than advertised.
I posted a story on HPTuners forum a few months ago about how i was on a fun afternoon spirited drive in the countryside and had to fill up with a brand i normally dont run. i immediately felt down on power so i plugged in my scanner and sure enough showed lots of knock. My car is far from stock, so not a baseline comparison, but i was so shocked at the difference, i went and bought one of those ethanol testers and tested 4 different gas stations to confirm my suspicions. The 93 fuel i bought was indeed much lower in octane than advertised.
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