Your P0008 experience (i.e. comes and goes every now and then) does seem a bit unique. Maybe the chain is right on the edge of the allowed deviation? Or could be a sticky tensioner? Does the problem tend to happen at startup/idling, or underway, or completely random? Can you better describe what the 'engine sounds louder' means ex: clattering sound from front of engine chaincase? Not to overstate the obvious, but first thing is confirm your oil level. How many miles on the vehicle? If it is the timing chain and you're less than 120K it's presumably covered by the special 10 year/120K warranty. Personally I wouldn't drive it as there's the potential to total the engine if the timing slips too much.
P0008 comes on and off
P0008 keeps coming on and off. It seems like once a week I hear the engine sound louder and light appears. About a day later the light goes away on its own.
What does his mean? If my timing chained stretched wouldn't it stay on and I would have bad performance all the time?
Thanks in advanced
What does his mean? If my timing chained stretched wouldn't it stay on and I would have bad performance all the time?
Thanks in advanced
1 - 20 of 51 Posts
It is completely random, but tends to happen when it is colder outside I have noticed. The engine just is louder when I hit the gas (like working harder). And I say to myself this will bring on the engine light, and then the next time I start it this is what happens. But then everything drives completely normal almost like a brand new car afterwards and a day or two later the light goes away. I did have the purge valve code come up once as well, so not sure if it is related to that but that purge valve code has stayed off for good.Your P0008 experience (i.e. comes and goes every now and then) does seem a bit unique. Maybe the chain is right on the edge of the allowed deviation? Or could be a sticky tensioner? Does the problem tend to happen at startup/idling, or underway, or completely random? Can you better describe what the 'engine sounds louder' means ex: clattering sound from front of engine chaincase? Not to overstate the obvious, but first thing is confirm your oil level. How many miles on the vehicle? If it is the timing chain and you're less than 120K it's presumably covered by the special 10 year/120K warranty. Personally I wouldn't drive it as there's the potential to total the engine if the timing slips too much.
I change my oil every 5K fully synthetic (usually use mobil 1, but my last one had to use castrol). I am due for an oil change soon, but I keep driving because I feel 0 performance issues, the car drives really well except for those odd random times which happens once every week or two. I have 125,000KMS on it, but not covered under warranty because it is a re-build.
I just feel like if my timing chain has stretched, I would see the performance issues every day and light would stay on.
futbolfever,
You need to go directly to your Cadillac dealer and see if your car is covered under the timing chain recall! Do a Google Custom Search using the search box in the upper right corner of this page using "P0008 engine code". This is a serious fault and hopefully you have under 120,000 miles on your car, so it will be covered by the recall.
Good Luck, Marv
edit - Sorry, that I missed it was a rebuilt/salvage vehicle! So yes, no warranty.
You need to go directly to your Cadillac dealer and see if your car is covered under the timing chain recall! Do a Google Custom Search using the search box in the upper right corner of this page using "P0008 engine code". This is a serious fault and hopefully you have under 120,000 miles on your car, so it will be covered by the recall.
Good Luck, Marv
edit - Sorry, that I missed it was a rebuilt/salvage vehicle! So yes, no warranty.
Not to belabor the point, but just to confirm that you've actually checked the oil level? Sounds like you're on top of it changing oil every 5K, but these engines may consume oil. You said it's 'due soon', after 5K you could be ex:a quart low which GM would say is 'normal'. Oil lubrication and solid pressure is critical for the VVT.I change my oil every 5K fully synthetic (usually use mobil 1, but my last one had to use castrol). I am due for an oil change soon, but I keep driving because I feel 0 performance issues, the car drives really well except for those odd random times which happens once every week or two.
I think continuing to drive it risks severe engine damage, but with that many miles and having already been 'rebuilt' (!?) perhaps 'drive it 'til it drops' makes sense depending on the overall vehicle condition, your circumstances, etc. At least worth a diagnosis as there may be some oddball (the intermittent aspect) inexpensive cause (usually P0008 means big buck$). I'm not one for quick fix additives and the like, but if expensive repair isn't justified running some ex:Rislone might be worth a try for an engine otherwise headed out to pasture.
Okay, I will check oil level when I am home tonight. As for heading to the pastures, not sure if that will happen the car still drives like its brand new -- I definitely wont be fixing the timing chain if that is the issue - not worth it for sure. I am just boggled that if the chain has stretched it should be constant with its issues, and light remain onNot to belabor the point, but just to confirm that you've actually checked the oil level? Sounds like you're on top of it changing oil every 5K, but these engines may consume oil. You said it's 'due soon', after 5K you could be ex:a quart low which GM would say is 'normal'. Oil lubrication and solid pressure is critical for the VVT.
I think continuing to drive it risks severe engine damage, but with that many miles and having already been 'rebuilt' (!?) perhaps 'drive it 'til it drops' makes sense depending on the overall vehicle condition, your circumstances, etc. At least worth a diagnosis as there may be some oddball (the intermittent aspect) inexpensive cause (usually P0008 means big buck$). I'm not one for quick fix additives and the like, but if expensive repair isn't justified running some ex:Rislone might be worth a try for an engine otherwise headed out to pasture.
Now this is a stored winter vehicle so after my next oil change if this still occurs I will give Rislone a go. I just have not seen any cases where the code comes on and off on its own. Because technically when it is not on, it the car is telling me I am good to go.
Cheers!
...the way it comes and goes on a 1-2 weekly basis seems odd to me as well. If you can find a competent & trustworthy mechanic with a scan tool it would be worth trying to diagnose just in case somehow it isn't an expensive fix. If you do find out please let the forum know.
Oil levels were good. it might be a while before I diagnose it now...the way it comes and goes on a 1-2 weekly basis seems odd to me as well. If you can find a competent & trustworthy mechanic with a scan tool it would be worth trying to diagnose just in case somehow it isn't an expensive fix. If you do find out please let the forum know.
... it will be parked for most of the summer as I will be travelling ..so when things settle sometime in the fall I will take it to a mechanic ... thing is I was going to buy new tires, which I definitely won't do if my timing chain is stretching..so I need to find out if I am facing death of the engine or not lol ..but I guess once I do figure it out will post here ...I had this with 2008 CTS rear wheel drive and it was a timing chain replaced under warranty. I now have 2009 CTS 3.6 AWD and this is happening. This is a known GM problem and I am advised the warranty was extended by GM to 10 Years and 200,000 Miles or 193,000 KMS. My car has this issue and has only 125,000 KMS. My Dealer just advised that this particular serial number is not covered by the extended warranty and I think that is absolute nonsense. Here an excerpt from the Bulletin
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM422873/CSC-10043857-8394.pdf
I have been a loyal GM Customer and Have this Cadillac with a Corvette as it's stable mate. Not sure how I am goiung to deal with GM on this , but I am one unhappy customer right now. Tomorrow the phone calls begin !!
----------
I meant 120,000 Miles or 193,000 KMS
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM422873/CSC-10043857-8394.pdf
I have been a loyal GM Customer and Have this Cadillac with a Corvette as it's stable mate. Not sure how I am goiung to deal with GM on this , but I am one unhappy customer right now. Tomorrow the phone calls begin !!
----------
I meant 120,000 Miles or 193,000 KMS
I had this with 2008 CTS rear wheel drive and it was a timing chain replaced under warranty. I now have 2009 CTS 3.6 AWD and this is happening. This is a known GM problem and I am advised the warranty was extended by GM to 10 Years and 200,000 Miles or 193,000 KMS. My car has this issue and has only 125,000 KMS. My Dealer just advised that this particular serial number is not covered by the extended warranty and I think that is absolute nonsense. Here an excerpt from the Bulletin
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM422873/CSC-10043857-8394.pdf
I have been a loyal GM Customer and Have this Cadillac with a Corvette as it's stable mate. Not sure how I am goiung to deal with GM on this , but I am one unhappy customer right now. Tomorrow the phone calls begin !!
call dealer, maybe warranty as mine was for this a few years ago
I have a CEL illuminated and it's the dreaded P0008 code as well. It started last October - would come on occasionally. Over the winter, it was always on. Now, at least 2 or 3 times a week, it will go off for a day or two and I cannot connect its comings and goings to temperature or driving conditions. The oil level is perfect - I change the oil myself - every 5,000-8,000 kms using Mobil 1 and an AC-Delco filter. After 178,000 kms, it does not burn oil whatsoever. Recently, I did notice (when I swapped in new plugs) that I have a leak in the right side valve cover gasket - based on the volume of oil I found on the plugs, this leak seems to be recent and minor. I will be taking it to the dealer in the next week or so - just to confirm that it is not eligible for a recall (it's a 2010).
Dealers seem to have a poor memory when it comes to warranty work. The most accurate information on warranty coverage comes from directly calling GM customer service yourself. Good Luck!
my.cadillac.com - register your VIN and it will tell you what warranties apply.
Works in the US. Doesn't accept addresses outside of the States. There is a Canadian version and it confirms that there is no special coverage for my '10 CTS - much as I thought.my.cadillac.com - register your VIN and it will tell you what warranties apply.
I still think it's weird that the CEL goes off at all. If the sensors are reading the conditions for a timing chain issue, I wonder why the light isn't constantly on. It's not the oil - like others here, I check the oil frequently and change it myself using Mobil 1 and OEM filters. I feel no performance issues and hear nothing unusual coming from under the hood. Constantly use top tier gas. etc etc. I will go to a garage and have it checked out.
I wanted to chime in on this because I had symptoms that were really similar to this and replacing the **CAM position sensors** solved this problem for me!!
My symptoms were as follows on a 2010 CTS w/ 110k miles:
* intermittent P0008 code + CEL
* lack of power (sometimes CEL would come on during the start/stop cycle following the lack of power but mostly they coincided with each other)
* lack of power was about 15-20% and I believe hit the fuel economy about as much
* the exhaust note was different. I think it might have been a bit louder for the following reason: when the P0008/CEL was triggered the ECU was clearly operating the engine differently. It was almost like it was running without any CAM advance or something and the reason I say that is because the power was good at very low RPMs and bad at mid-range RPMs. But I think it was louder because the engine's operating condition was just different, and that the exhaust wasn't tuned for that... purely speculation.
* seemed like transmission wouldn't downshift, but rather was expecting more power.
* i think this happened more when it was hot out (not cold as the OP mentioned), but I think it was more random than anything
* changing oil had absolutely not affect on the symptoms
So yeah, I had a rough time believing that my timing chain was stretched because, yeah like everyone is saying, if a chain or chains were stretched out, it would be a pretty solid CEL and not intermittent. It was also hard to swallow because I religiously change oil @ 25%-33% of the Oil life indication and ALWAYS used oil claiming GM4718M. Plus I baby this car. And this is not a recall situation.
Sensors were $12 from Rock Auto x 2 for Bank 1, passenger side... real easy to get to... this is a no brainer to try before doing the timing chain. I bet the same could happen on Bank 2 (P0009 ??)
Also as a side note since I'm rambling about this, I have the Service Manual and there isn't a single diagnostic procedure in that manual that results in replacing the CAM sensors... pretty surprising!
My symptoms were as follows on a 2010 CTS w/ 110k miles:
* intermittent P0008 code + CEL
* lack of power (sometimes CEL would come on during the start/stop cycle following the lack of power but mostly they coincided with each other)
* lack of power was about 15-20% and I believe hit the fuel economy about as much
* the exhaust note was different. I think it might have been a bit louder for the following reason: when the P0008/CEL was triggered the ECU was clearly operating the engine differently. It was almost like it was running without any CAM advance or something and the reason I say that is because the power was good at very low RPMs and bad at mid-range RPMs. But I think it was louder because the engine's operating condition was just different, and that the exhaust wasn't tuned for that... purely speculation.
* seemed like transmission wouldn't downshift, but rather was expecting more power.
* i think this happened more when it was hot out (not cold as the OP mentioned), but I think it was more random than anything
* changing oil had absolutely not affect on the symptoms
So yeah, I had a rough time believing that my timing chain was stretched because, yeah like everyone is saying, if a chain or chains were stretched out, it would be a pretty solid CEL and not intermittent. It was also hard to swallow because I religiously change oil @ 25%-33% of the Oil life indication and ALWAYS used oil claiming GM4718M. Plus I baby this car. And this is not a recall situation.
Sensors were $12 from Rock Auto x 2 for Bank 1, passenger side... real easy to get to... this is a no brainer to try before doing the timing chain. I bet the same could happen on Bank 2 (P0009 ??)
Also as a side note since I'm rambling about this, I have the Service Manual and there isn't a single diagnostic procedure in that manual that results in replacing the CAM sensors... pretty surprising!
I bit the bullet and got the new chains swapped in - no CEL light and the performance improvement is significant. Glad I did it.
I was going to suggest it could possibly be a problem with the sensors resulting in an intermittent code. The exhaust note variation is a result of camshaft positioning. If you stand behind the car immediately after startup and listen, you'll note that it is considerably louder for a short while and then suddenly starts to quiet down as if a volume control is being turned down. That's the effect the camshafts have as they return to the parked position while warm up rpm is still in effect.
I made an interesting discovery yesterday while tearing down an LY7 that I bought to put on a stand and tinker with. The oil pump and oil pan mount directly to the block without gasket, or o-ring, in what is a long oil pickup circuit since the oil pan serves as part of the plumbing and the pump mounts on the front of the block. The later 3.6L the LGX has the oil pump in the traditional location beneath the engine submerged inside the oil pan. That's thought provoking considering that arrangement greatly reduces the risk of oil starvation from leaks in the pickup passage, as well as low oil levels.
The feature list for the LGX also states that the fuel injector angle has been changed to reduce oil dilution. Again, thought provoking.
I made an interesting discovery yesterday while tearing down an LY7 that I bought to put on a stand and tinker with. The oil pump and oil pan mount directly to the block without gasket, or o-ring, in what is a long oil pickup circuit since the oil pan serves as part of the plumbing and the pump mounts on the front of the block. The later 3.6L the LGX has the oil pump in the traditional location beneath the engine submerged inside the oil pan. That's thought provoking considering that arrangement greatly reduces the risk of oil starvation from leaks in the pickup passage, as well as low oil levels.
The feature list for the LGX also states that the fuel injector angle has been changed to reduce oil dilution. Again, thought provoking.
Very interesting, for sure. Any pics of the LY7 oil pump set-up?
Really? No oil pan gasket?
Really? No oil pan gasket?
I was mistaken about the pan, it does have a flat o-ring gasket I didn't notice it. It is also soft and flexible despite being a 2004. The oil pump however has no such gasket. The pump looks as if they intended to cut an o-ring groove but stopped at the halfway point depth wise. If that surface isn't perfect problems will result. Some of the Mercedes AMG motors have an O-ring in the oil pickup system that hardens with age and fails leading to loss of sufficient oil pressure and engine failure, an autocrosser performed a youtube tear down of his AMG engine which failed during a race and that was the cause. He also followed up that video stating that the used replacement had a similar problem before it was installed. There is no gasket between the pan to block mount surface.Very interesting, for sure. Any pics of the LY7 oil pump set-up?
Really? No oil pan gasket?
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