One piece driveshaft
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You must be awfully bored to be so into writing nothing everytime! It seems 1/2 the people believe it will be a difference and 1/2 think it is worthless! So, I want to know if I should do it given the fact that I need to send my shaft to the place for this to happen. I believe it has to make more HP to the wheels but what will be the negatives! So, the more feedback, the better and this is getting done for all us V owners as these guys say they would sell it for around $700, not the $1200 that someone stated! SO JON, DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER RIDICULOUS POSTS TO SEND?
04 CTS-V, 05 STS, 07 SRX- All sold :(
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26,570 Posts
After riding around with a Z06 clutch/flywheel combo for a while now, I'm pretty convinced that the parade clunk is in the stock flywheel. It's almost completely gone after the flywheel swap, and what little there is left is no worse than other manual transmission cars I've owned.
What feedback are you looking for? No one here has ever even seen a V with a one-peice drive shaft. If you're looking for specific info, well, you're talking to a driveshaft shop. That should be enough.
If you want to try and help people out, then just get it and then tell us about it. It might be the greatest thing on earth, but nobody knows that yet.
Writing nothing? Like I said, all the info that was available can be found in the other link. I don't beleive it was so ridiculous, to post a link containing the same post made by the same person a few weeks earlier. Its ridiculous to ask a question that will only be answered by opinion.
Just 'man up' and get the damn thing. $700 is alot, but hey it's cheaper than other mods people do for less power. If it doesn't work out then it's easy to change. Unless they are just modding yours. Which I don't think is a good idea, but if they have the tools for balancing and testing driveshafts, then what the heck. I've spent thousands of dollars on exhausts for my camaro, only to decide that I still didn't like it. It's just one of those things.
Here's a thought. If your buddy did it to his GTO, and liked the results. Then go to a GTO board and search for feedback there. Thats what I do when the answer aren't here.
Jon
I guess you just can't understand that there are negatives to doing this! I AM GETTING IT DONE FOR FREE AND AM STILL UP IN THE AIR! NEW DRIVESHAFT! Much bigger, aluminum, bolt right in! My concerns are: The rear gets beat to death, meaning the cv joints I think, so they will have to be changed shortly after. Will they get the clearance right the first time? Probably not! My car will be tied up for a week at least, and I am pretty new to this BORING town of Ocala so, I DON'T KNOW ANYONE TO USE THEIR LIFT! I am not laying down on my back in my garage to remove this thing with ramps! You want more? I have heard that the tunnel, in our cars, is not like the GTO! It is a more difficult to apply a one piece driveshaft in our cars and make it work. I learned this in this new thread...JON!
OK, I am calmer now! Let me give you one more fact! Before my friend did it in his GTO, the same guy, told him that if he did not think it was a huge improvement, then return it and I'll give you all your money back! So, I think I know or truely believe that it is a great mod for $700 but there are the other factors I mentioned earlier in this post! Maybe, just maybe Jon, you can understand all the questions and the need for as much feedback as possible!K! bye!
I might reiterate, this sounds like a lot of work for a negligable gain.
I'd almost be surprised if a dyno could even detect the difference.
My opinion would be that your friend in the GTO "feels the difference" to justify what he "feels in his wallet".
A lot of heavy duty applications that I have worked on have 2 piece shafts.
From an engineering standpoint, I am not sure what the benefits or drawbacks might be.
It seems to me that this forum would dry up if people weren't allowed to talk about things that have been brought up before.
I know I see the same topic pop up sometimes in 3 places at once.
I'd almost be surprised if a dyno could even detect the difference.
My opinion would be that your friend in the GTO "feels the difference" to justify what he "feels in his wallet".
A lot of heavy duty applications that I have worked on have 2 piece shafts.
From an engineering standpoint, I am not sure what the benefits or drawbacks might be.
It seems to me that this forum would dry up if people weren't allowed to talk about things that have been brought up before.
I know I see the same topic pop up sometimes in 3 places at once.
04 CTS-V, 05 STS, 07 SRX- All sold :(
Joined
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26,570 Posts
That's every internet forum.
I personally like an old subject being resurrected with a new thread occasionally. It gets all of the ideas on the first couple pages (instead of being mixed in with a bunch of chaff), as well as giving members who weren't around for the first thread a chance to pitch in their two cents.
I personally like an old subject being resurrected with a new thread occasionally. It gets all of the ideas on the first couple pages (instead of being mixed in with a bunch of chaff), as well as giving members who weren't around for the first thread a chance to pitch in their two cents.
I had already described the negatives, that I know of, in an earlier post and that is the only thing holding me up from doing it!
With that said...you are a Cad Technician? Isn't it quite obvious that a one piece shaft will put more power to the ground and get rid of that slight hesitation that all two piece shafts have? I can also see that you read one part of a post and use that statement without reading the rest with your 'feels it in his wallet' RIDICULOUS statement! HE COULD HAVE RETURNED IT FOR A FULL REFUND! The vette doctors dynoed the car and have dynoed 6 other GTO's with much less gains and similar mods and their tune! You must also take us for idiots or a younger version of guys who have not had fast cars before, so you think we can't feel a difference? Between us, we have had 15-20 sport cars, fast cars, whatever and have worked on almost every one and street raced every one of them! So, please...SAVE IT FOR THE NEXT THREAD! There's internet racers and then there are INTERNET DRIVERS, I am sure you fit the latter! Have a great day...Willard!
P.S. I guess to get answers or opinions you must deal with some flack and it is understandable! I thank you all for your input and even these replies make me learn something! I'll keep you all posted on the driveshaft thing!
I see that I need to take a moment to reply to clear up a few misunderstandings.
Yes I am a Cadillac Technician, some say I am pretty good but I try not to blow my own horn. That being said, bear in mind my training is to maintain GM cars and light trucks to factory specifications. I work in a dealership, not a speed shop where people modify factory systems for whatever reason. I never professed to know everything about this topic, nor any other in recent memory. I offer information that I know to help people, I sometimes speculate a little bit based on what I have seen and what my training and experience have taught me. Sometimes I make mistakes, sometimes I don't.
Regardless of how "rediculous" my statements are I really don't think it justifies, what I consider, the personal attack you launched on me in your last post. Perhaps my statement wasn't well thought out, but I don't recall saying anything about you, your friends, your car, your friends car that would indicate I thought anyone was an "idiot" or has never owned or worked on a performance vehicle.
I have yet to see you post anything difinitive to indicate that he actually gained rear wheel torque or horsepower by changing to a single piece shaft, maybe you did and I missed it. I don't doubt that it makes the car drive differently but to really understand the validity of his statements I'd like to see a before and after dyno test that shows a change to a single piece shaft made such a world of difference. I can't say much about a GTO because I have never been within 50 feet of one, but I am quite intimate with the workings of the CTS-V as many members of this board can attest to. I have worked on many of their vehicles with a seemingly high degree of satisfaction.
As you know a driveshaft is a metal tube with joints on each end (and sometimes in the middle) to transfer power from the transmissionto the differential. I can see where elminiating the center joint and carrier support might reduce frictional losses by a small amount but, having lived in the "show-me" state for 13 years I would just like to have someone explain to me why this would make such a "big" difference. I am completely open to an intelligent discussion on the topic, but I will be the first to profess that my expertise is more oriented to electrical and drivability issues than basic mechanical things.
To sum it up, my skills are honed to find out what is wrong with something and fix it, not speculate as to what changes might affect more rear wheel horsepower.
If you still REALLY believe that I was trying to insult you, your friend, or anyone on this forum, then I offer my apologies, it wasn't intended. Years of doing this sort of thing on the web has made me realize that it is very easy to read intent into printed words that just isn't there. It's happened to me before too.
I hope this clears up any misunderstandings about my intent or what I have said in this, or any other topic.
If anyone else has a problem with me or my statments please feel free to contact me privately so we can address those issues like men. I know how to use the "edit" button on my previous posts and don't have an issue doing it to clear up any such problems.
Otherwise, if it's okay with everyone, I'll continue to do what every member of this forum does.... express my opinion and make an occaisional mistake or two.
No hard feelings.
(BTW, you forgot to say something about my mom) :histeric:
Yes I am a Cadillac Technician, some say I am pretty good but I try not to blow my own horn. That being said, bear in mind my training is to maintain GM cars and light trucks to factory specifications. I work in a dealership, not a speed shop where people modify factory systems for whatever reason. I never professed to know everything about this topic, nor any other in recent memory. I offer information that I know to help people, I sometimes speculate a little bit based on what I have seen and what my training and experience have taught me. Sometimes I make mistakes, sometimes I don't.
Regardless of how "rediculous" my statements are I really don't think it justifies, what I consider, the personal attack you launched on me in your last post. Perhaps my statement wasn't well thought out, but I don't recall saying anything about you, your friends, your car, your friends car that would indicate I thought anyone was an "idiot" or has never owned or worked on a performance vehicle.
I have yet to see you post anything difinitive to indicate that he actually gained rear wheel torque or horsepower by changing to a single piece shaft, maybe you did and I missed it. I don't doubt that it makes the car drive differently but to really understand the validity of his statements I'd like to see a before and after dyno test that shows a change to a single piece shaft made such a world of difference. I can't say much about a GTO because I have never been within 50 feet of one, but I am quite intimate with the workings of the CTS-V as many members of this board can attest to. I have worked on many of their vehicles with a seemingly high degree of satisfaction.
As you know a driveshaft is a metal tube with joints on each end (and sometimes in the middle) to transfer power from the transmissionto the differential. I can see where elminiating the center joint and carrier support might reduce frictional losses by a small amount but, having lived in the "show-me" state for 13 years I would just like to have someone explain to me why this would make such a "big" difference. I am completely open to an intelligent discussion on the topic, but I will be the first to profess that my expertise is more oriented to electrical and drivability issues than basic mechanical things.
To sum it up, my skills are honed to find out what is wrong with something and fix it, not speculate as to what changes might affect more rear wheel horsepower.
If you still REALLY believe that I was trying to insult you, your friend, or anyone on this forum, then I offer my apologies, it wasn't intended. Years of doing this sort of thing on the web has made me realize that it is very easy to read intent into printed words that just isn't there. It's happened to me before too.
I hope this clears up any misunderstandings about my intent or what I have said in this, or any other topic.
If anyone else has a problem with me or my statments please feel free to contact me privately so we can address those issues like men. I know how to use the "edit" button on my previous posts and don't have an issue doing it to clear up any such problems.
Otherwise, if it's okay with everyone, I'll continue to do what every member of this forum does.... express my opinion and make an occaisional mistake or two.
No hard feelings.
(BTW, you forgot to say something about my mom) :histeric:
I think one thing is true of any car company- they are in business to make a profit. If for some reason an item is not necessary for the car to function they would not put it on if it costs more money IE the two piece drive shaft is probably more expensive than a one piece. Perhaps though, a one piece by virtue of the increased length would be more expensive than a two peice due to better materials/precision balance requirements. Unless we could talk to the engineer that worked on this part of the drive train every thing is just a guess. It would rock if some of these engineers would post here, they could clear up a lot of issues (yeh, we did this this way because of this). A switch to a one piece drive shaft could be the greatest thing or a complete waste. When someone does it and tells us about it then we will know. That is the greatest thing about these forums, every one can learn from a few people who have taken the, if you will, first step!
G
Guest
·Shit I'll Do it to my car if I keep it. Give me who it is and I'll call and get er done.
Why not a one-piece shaft? Some things to ponder:
1. Tunnel/component clearance - As mentioned previously, there's only so much room to work with on the V.
2. A long one-piece shaft will be more susceptible to whip, vibrations and shear.
3. Crash energy management - Telescoping multi-piece shafts absorb energy from backward engine movements in a frontal crash or forward engine movement in a rear crash.
4. I'm sure there's other stuff; I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn express last night.
With a one piece shaft, it would be prudent to add an adequate driveshaft hoop for safety. A broken one-piece shaft can be deadly whipping around under (through!) the car.
Shaft length, diameter, material, type/design of joints on either end, etc. of a one-piece shaft are critical. Get any of the design elements wrong through shadetree engineering and the downside may not be pretty. Sure it can be overbuilt but that's just bad engineering when it doesn't need to be.
If you want to know the details on the how's and why's, order this --> Universal Joint and Driveshaft Design Manual
Spending money on a driveshaft would be low on my list unless it were a serious weak link in the driveline compared to the torque capacity of the other components. There is always one part of a driveline that is the weakest link. Would one rather replace an expensive component such as a transmission or a relatively more cost effective propshaft?
Our GM friends do visit. Show these sometimes "strangers" on the forums a little respect and we may get more inside information. The wolf pack is strong here when wound up on the "truth" as they see it.
If one is looking for more power, do the things that get more fuel and air into the engine such as heads, camshafts, superchargers, turbos, etc.
And in closing, the things engineers wrestle with everyday - There is no free lunch, everything has trade-offs. It's the rule of the universe as we know it.
1. Tunnel/component clearance - As mentioned previously, there's only so much room to work with on the V.
2. A long one-piece shaft will be more susceptible to whip, vibrations and shear.
3. Crash energy management - Telescoping multi-piece shafts absorb energy from backward engine movements in a frontal crash or forward engine movement in a rear crash.
4. I'm sure there's other stuff; I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn express last night.
With a one piece shaft, it would be prudent to add an adequate driveshaft hoop for safety. A broken one-piece shaft can be deadly whipping around under (through!) the car.
Shaft length, diameter, material, type/design of joints on either end, etc. of a one-piece shaft are critical. Get any of the design elements wrong through shadetree engineering and the downside may not be pretty. Sure it can be overbuilt but that's just bad engineering when it doesn't need to be.
If you want to know the details on the how's and why's, order this --> Universal Joint and Driveshaft Design Manual
Spending money on a driveshaft would be low on my list unless it were a serious weak link in the driveline compared to the torque capacity of the other components. There is always one part of a driveline that is the weakest link. Would one rather replace an expensive component such as a transmission or a relatively more cost effective propshaft?
Our GM friends do visit. Show these sometimes "strangers" on the forums a little respect and we may get more inside information. The wolf pack is strong here when wound up on the "truth" as they see it.
If one is looking for more power, do the things that get more fuel and air into the engine such as heads, camshafts, superchargers, turbos, etc.
And in closing, the things engineers wrestle with everyday - There is no free lunch, everything has trade-offs. It's the rule of the universe as we know it.
EWILL3RD: Nothing bad intended and I aplogize for flying off the handle a bit! Opinions are what this forum is for and sometimes words written can be taken wrong which has happened from time to time. It is not like actually chatting for most of us. I had a bad day yesterday and probably was an 'idiot'! Sorry for the confusion and Rick prolly just talked me out of even trying the shaft but I'll ponder over it the next couple days! Thanks for your input EWILL and it is always welcome!
P.S. Great last sentence!
04 CTS-V, 05 STS, 07 SRX- All sold :(
Joined
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26,570 Posts
I'd say that the negatives far outweigh any potential gains. The only real gain I can even imagine from swapping to a solid driveshaft would be reducing torque reversal in the driveline (eliminating clunk), which could only be considered a "cosmetic" mod since you aren't getting more power to the ground. Your friend's power most likely came from the tuning they did at the 'Vette shop.
My $.02 ? Look elsewhere for power improvements. If you want less clunk, get a Z06 flywheel.
My $.02 ? Look elsewhere for power improvements. If you want less clunk, get a Z06 flywheel.
:Offtopic: Threadjack warning!
OK Rick, no questions about the mysterious CAI, but maybe you want to tell us about the new intake manifold
oke:I sure as hell noticed yours. I think you should post more. Any random gibberish works for me.
That goes for rp64ctsv and his avatar as well. Good Morning Sunshine! Or, in this case, Moonshine. I like, I like.
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