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This is why I not only bought an 09 V but also an 09 Viper--my firm belief that this is the end of the golden age. I travel to Europe often and my friends there all say "don't let it happen to you" (as they live in cramped housing and stay on waiting lists for med care) .

But, the truth is if Barry and his minnions have their way our grandkids will all be living in German style apartments their entire lives and be taking trains or buses everywhere, or if they are one of the lucky ones, they will have a smart car.

You think I am over-reacting? Did you ever think GM would be owned by the Govt and unions even though the govt said it would not happen? This is all well orchestrated.
 

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Cadillac Technician
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Don't fret, he'll tell you soon what you can have instead.

Be careful what you wish for, I can't tell you how many times I said that before election day.
The bed is made people. Get comfy.
 

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2015 BMUU 335i MSport, 2006 STS-V--2005 CTS-V ( traded in)
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Best line from the article.

"More information will surface, so it is too soon to accurately predict what GM and Chrysler may look like when they emerge from the Obama team's restructuring program."


Neither the current or previous administration put GM and Chrysler in the situations they are in today. They did it to themselves. But like most humans people like to point the finger and blame someone else for their own declining situation.
 

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Best line from the article.

"More information will surface, so it is too soon to accurately predict what GM and Chrysler may look like when they emerge from the Obama team's restructuring program."


Neither the current or previous administration put GM and Chrysler in the situations they are in today. They did it to themselves. But like most humans people like to point the finger and blame someone else for their own declining situation.
:shhh: N0-Bama!
 

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2012 CTS-V
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239 Posts
I'm sorry but I don't think an auto journalist for AOL sets policy or makes auto manufacturing decisions.

We'll see what really happens.
 

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451 Posts
We all have speculated this but this is the first I have actually read it in an article:
Ugh. The article author is making some assumptions about GM's directions that just aren't true. He's using Pontiac's death as the canary for the Corvette's death (as well as other performance vehicles). He says that Pontiac was:
a concept that seemed to define performance all by itself some decades ago. Now that brand is gone.
The brand isn't gone because of its performance vehicles (which, in and of itself, as a very laughable statement). It's gone because the vehicles it had in its portfolio weren't selling! GM's restructuring document that was released to the Treasury Dept back in February (you all read it, right?) clearly stated that Pontiac's days were numbered, so they could focus on their "core" brands (ie, the brands that actually SELL CARS).

Pontiac's death had nothing to do with the Obama restructuring committee. Pontiac's death had everything to do with GM deciding it had too many brands and too many name plates, and it wisely decided to shed some of them. A move long, LONG overdue.

Don't worry about performance cars. Team Corvette and the rest of the HiPo guys at GM are still working, and still causing trouble. Bet on that.

jas
 

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2013 6MT V wagon, OBM, 2009 silver V sedan (traded)
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I'm an Obama supporter and disagree that he would get rid of the 'vette or V. He's a car guy, owned a pretty nice 300C as I recall prior to being goaded into buying a hybrid by the rabid treehuggers. All politicians on both sides of the aisle are that way, they bend to the wind, don't trust any of them.

This article is based on assumptions that aren't true about GM anyway, you can't believe everything you read. Pontiac's death has long been rumored for the reasons noted in jvp's post above, and the only role Obama's administration had in it was that it was accelerated.

I, for one, won't particularly miss Pontiac other than that the G8 (the GXP version I also considered purchasing this year) is gone and likely won't be placed in Chevy or elsewhere.

I agree with CIWS....

I do NOT think performance cars are going away, but I DO think they will be harder to justify production for given the new CAFE rules, and will become prohibitively expensive, rare, or maybe both in the not-so-distant future. This is why I bought my V now--I wanted to experience this kind of car before hybrids or hydrogen become the norm.
 

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2006 Cadillac CTS-V Light Platinum
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Don't worry about performance cars. Team Corvette and the rest of the HiPo guys at GM are still working, and still causing trouble. Bet on that.
In general I agree with you, but Caddy's V team was disbanded a few months ago. Now, granted, the V hasn't been Caddy's bread and butter, and they're main line of products are good enough to keep selling at their current rate without the V group, but it doesn't bode well for performance related vehicles in general.

I should also note that word around the forums was that the V team wasn't fired as much as disbanded back throughout Caddy/GM. So they appear to have retained the talent. But again, you can't hide the fact that - as of now - there's nothing new-V coming any time soon.

That's probably a better canary than Pontiac.
 

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I should also note that word around the forums was that the V team wasn't fired as much as disbanded back throughout Caddy/GM. So they appear to have retained the talent. But again, you can't hide the fact that - as of now - there's nothing new-V coming any time soon.

That's probably a better canary than Pontiac.
Nah. What GM doesn't have any longer is a centralized group of high performance troublemakers. HPVO was it for a while. Prior to that, there was another group run by Jon Moss and I can't, for the life of me, remember what it was called.

The performance teams come and go within GM. The talent generally doesn't leave, save for the leadership (Moss isn't with GM any longer if I'm not mistaken. Neither is Heinricy). The writing was on the wall that HPVO was a goner LONG before it happened this year. And it was due to tightening CAFE standards, NOT the imminent take-over by the government. Those wheels were in motion last year. Trust me on that one.

And though some small amount of ideas may have been shared between HPVO and Team Corvette, the latter was definitely not connected to the former in any way. And they're continue to innovate and produce better Corvettes.

The face of high performance vehicles will, no doubt, change going forward. Less power and less weight, but (hopefully) the same or better performance. Don't worry. :)

jas
 

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I heard today that there is a slight chance they won't make the 2010..
 

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2009 CTS, 2009 CTS-V, 2012 CLS550
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479 Posts
Ugh. The article author is making some assumptions about GM's directions that just aren't true. He's using Pontiac's death as the canary for the Corvette's death (as well as other performance vehicles). He says that Pontiac was:


The brand isn't gone because of its performance vehicles (which, in and of itself, as a very laughable statement). It's gone because the vehicles it had in its portfolio weren't selling! GM's restructuring document that was released to the Treasury Dept back in February (you all read it, right?) clearly stated that Pontiac's days were numbered, so they could focus on their "core" brands (ie, the brands that actually SELL CARS).

Pontiac's death had nothing to do with the Obama restructuring committee. Pontiac's death had everything to do with GM deciding it had too many brands and too many name plates, and it wisely decided to shed some of them. A move long, LONG overdue.

Don't worry about performance cars. Team Corvette and the rest of the HiPo guys at GM are still working, and still causing trouble. Bet on that.

jas
By far the most accurate and intelligent statement to date. Thank you.:thumbsup:

IMO, Journalists have long lost their integrity and most often present inaccurate articles/publications which are in turn are read by individuals who then see and spread the inaccuracy as truth. Journalist are now in the business of selling not reporting news accurately and/or from an unbiased view.

GM recognized that Pontiac wasn't a profitable division.. They thought they could revive the division with the GTO. Fast car, yes. But styling was not very appealing. They tried again with the G8. Again, too little too late. While the G8 model at the SEMA show was a beast with over 500 HP, it was not a production version. And so goes the story of how the Pontiac division had failed in the syling category which contributed to their poor sales.
 

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2007 stsv. 2005 ctsv(r.i.p)
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you got to love it!! Keep the crap plastic piece of crap made american cars that dont sell and no body wants, AND GET RID OF THE ONES THAT ARE TOP PERFOMERS IN THERE CLASS AND PEOPLE LOVE TO BUY!!!!?????? whats wrong with that picture????who the hell here is going to buy one??? sorry guys german here i come!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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you got to love it!! Keep the crap plastic piece of crap made american cars that dont sell and no body wants, AND GET RID OF THE ONES THAT ARE TOP PERFOMERS IN THERE CLASS AND PEOPLE LOVE TO BUY!!!!??????
Wow. Where'd you come from? And what sales numbers are you paying attention to that says Pontiacs are "TOP PERFORMERS" and cars that "PEOPLE LOVE TO BUY?" Reality seems to indicate otherwise, unfortunately.

whats wrong with that picture????who the hell here is going to buy one???
Elaborate please? Wrong with what picture? And who's going to buy one of which, exactly?

sorry guys german here i come!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, if a German vehicle makes you happy, have at it. But keep in mind, you're only furthering our horrendous trade deficit, every single time you buy foreign. And, you're helping to destroy the last real industry this country has.

But don't let that stop ya...

jas
 

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another reason i didnt buy foreign. If shit hits the fan full blast i dont want my mercedes or bimmer to get keyed
 

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the US govt now holds major stake in the GM. GM's #1 goal right now is to avoid bankruptcty... if Uncle Sam and the hippies want more fuel efficeint/ozone friendly cars and GM wants to avoid bankruptcy... it will happen.

from the statement earlier, if hippies can have Obama in a hybrid... why wouldn't he think that is acceptable for everyone else? just my 2 cents but if you look back in the 70s and early 80s when govt came down on the auto industry from leaded to unleaded fuel and the engines in those days Vettes, Porches, and other "sports cars" produced about as much HP as my lawnmower compared to the 60s muscle cars. will those legends die...? who knows, but could they SEVERELY suffer in hp due to restrictions for a decade or so...? quite possibly.

on the other hand... things came back around and more hp started coming back with technology. if we all go electric look at the Tesla Model S... sure all the fun is gone from the motor and rumble... but it is still fairly fast for $55k lol...

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/index.php

so you guys with your 2009s might want to get that bubble enclosure for you cars and see what happens in the next 2 years lmao... ;)
 

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damn that pisses me off. I was hoping the uaw would be the majority owner in gm. Now since the gov is the majority this will give the uaw to put in extravagane benefits and all kinds of other goodies for themselves while the majority shareholder....US.....will be paying for it. Now if the uaw was the majority than they would just screw themselvers
 
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