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not anymore 2007 Lexus ES350
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Discussion Starter #1
ok so mom took the caddy out today
fine ok so she drove she brought back with no gas i went to gas station on way there ran out of gas AAA brought me 3 gallons wouldnt star
had it towed back to house
took engien cover off checked fuel rail just hair air no fuel

any ideas whats up

thanks
 

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not anymore 2007 Lexus ES350
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Discussion Starter #3
not really sure the wind is so loud i primed it about 15 or 20 times and still didnt get it going or anyting
might have mom sit in the car and prim it but what should i do opent he trunk and listen for it ?
 

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03 STS
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trunk or lay next to car and stick head under pass seat area. you think it ran out of fuel. you add fuel and now it won't start. i am heading out in 1/2 hour. will see how loud my pump whines.
 

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not anymore 2007 Lexus ES350
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Discussion Starter #5
going to have to wait tilli can get someone to prime the ignition so i lay in trunk and see if i hear it
i had the seat out in the back to check the fuel pump and fuse and it sounded like i could hear it clicking but between the noise of the clicking from the fuse box i couldn't hear the pump and then between the chimes that the car makes when you turn the key and all
the warning chimes i could t really tell either
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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If the fuel tank was run dry the chances of the fuel pump itself being burned up are pretty good, BUT if a fuse check shows no blown fuses, then it would appear the pump is OK. 3 gallons of gas in an empty 18.5 gallon tank is not much. You may need to dump in 3 or 5 more. You don't have to lie in the trunk to hear a fuel pump prime the system - open the gas cap, listen at the open pipe, and have someone turn the key ON. The pump should run for 2 - 3 seconds.

If the pump does not run at key ON and does not run during cranking (key START) then the pump itself is suspect.

Not sure if running out of gas, trying to start, towing, and more trying to start would set some sort of TheftLock operation.
 

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1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
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Yeah, I saw the post last night and first thing passing trough my mind was fuel pump.
You should not run th car with low fuel level, that is the recipe to burn your electric fuel pump. The gas acts as a coolant for the pump. I never let it go bellow 1/2 but you should fill up when you go below 1/3 or so.
 

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not anymore 2007 Lexus ES350
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Discussion Starter #8
since the level sensor was always bad since i have owned it
i always go by the fuel used digi read out i always fill it up never half way or 5 gallon fills i always fill the tank up then never let that read out get bellow 15 gallons at the most
i know when i parked the nite before it had been reading 15 my plan was to take it in the AM and fill it up
but it was last car in the drive the night before so mom used it to go to temple then run some erands
when she got back it was reading 17.2 used
so i went to go right ot the gas station and 2 streets up when the thing was reading 17.4 used it just supertered and shut off
have added 5 gallons since then but how ever
but then after all the times of starting how mouch could i have used between now and then just trying to start
so i have a 2.5 gallon can
guess ill go fill it up one more time and see if that works
also the volts on my batter read very low it got ot point where it was bellow 9 and every was off so then pulled the van out hooked it up to the batter and it whent up to reding 13.2 highest i got it to read was 13.5 is that enought for it to jump if there is a issue maybe just not enought power but i don't think thats the issue
also could it be because im trying to jump it from the terminals under the hood and not going directly to the back seat battery ?
 

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1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
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Here is the fuel pump control circuit diagram.



The diagram is from a Eldorado but just replace the "underhood fuse block" with "rear fuse block" and is your STS.
If that ain't it then you are in business for a new fuel pimp (AcDelco).
The not so bad news in this situation is your car has a fuel pump access panel located in the trunk (behind the rear seat to the right side) visible once you remove the trunk liner. Is a 45 minutes job tops, some may say you need a special fuel pump removal tool but I can tell you that you don't need it as long as you have a huge flat head screwdriver.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
ok cool thanks
im going to have to wait Mom to get up so i can ask her to turn the key and prime it so i can listen to hear the pump see if it is running or not
im a slow fat ass so not going to be able to run from turn key to gas cap filler and listen before it probbably stops lol

what about the battery voltage is 13.5 enough for the car to start ? thats the highest iv been able to get it after trying to jump it off the van
van always try to pull out one of the other cars but if dad found out hes probably kill me then say well thats why i pay for aaa priemer service for you lol

im going to get another 2.5 gallons and hope that also helps it
and since its a bit warmer today maybe that might help also
will post an update when i finish with this and see where i am

so if i where to venture into trying to change the fuel pump on my own
i just pull away the carpeting on the inside of the trunk on the driver side then i find a acess door to the pump and all i need is a large flat head screw driver and probably a few bandades and emergency stand by lol
 

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1997 Seville STS, 2000 Seville STS
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Hatch is on the passenger side floor of the trunk up in the front corner of the trunk near the seatback. You will need a 1/4" or 5/16" (or whatever the metric equivalent is 6mm or 8 mm I think) hex head nut driver or socket to get the cover off. Also a Brass drift pin and hammer (no sparks) to drive the locking ring off the top of the fuel pump assembly retainer, then the pump will just pull straight out.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
mom in car priming key on then 5 seconds turns off count sback to 5 turns on counts 5 turns off did this about 10 times each time i heard the sound from the filler neck with gas cap off
so this means pump and fues is good right ?

stil now start batter voltage under 12
then hook up van brings jumper cables to my car
brings coltave up to 13.1 instantly
waits 10 minues comes back out im at 13.5 tries to start no start
 

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Discussion Starter #14
ok so pulled one car out the garage to try and jump it again give it one more try also put another 2 and half gallons of fuel in
hooked the jumper cables up to the battery directly under the back seat was getting 13.8 volts still cranking but would not turn over so no start
listened for fuel pump again couldn't really tell if it was running or not

pulled codes to see if anything had come up only code i saw that was current was this one
P0340 - Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor

is it possible that is a problem ?
or would that cause other symptoms

also i cleared that coes tried to start a few more times let it sit for a why ll went back out tried to start again no dice still no start up
but that code the p0340 is now gone i cleared it and has not come back


also something i just thought of
it was a bad snow storm when it sputtered and shut down weather i ran out of gas or maybe it was something else all together but
no matter what couldn't get it started again
cop used his car and push bar to move me off the main street
something i remember ones in one of my past cars had this shut off switch where if the car was in a bad accident or if it flipped the fuel pump would shut off when that switch would pop out from the hit or flip but one time someone tapped my rear jut lightly and that switch popped and shut the fuel line off

is there anything like this on the Seville
possible maybe something like that happen from the cop pushing me perhaps
was just thinking that might be the case

if anything id rather it be a fuel pump that is bad cause i knew i was going to plan on spending the money for the level sensor so at least now ill just get a fuel pump labor will be the same cause unless it gets warmer here im not going to do that myself to cold right now
 

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1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
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CKP can and may cause eventually if bad enough the no start thing.
Unfortunately you already know you have no gas. Since you can't tell the pump is running probably is NOT running. In a quite garage you should be able to hear it even from inside the car if you know what to listen for.
So use my diagram and rule out the relay and the fuse. Test the voltage to the fuel pump connector. But since you remove the panel is pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to miss if the pump is running or not.
I hate to say but you may have two issues, the fuel pump may be the most immediate to address.
Again test the electrics, all you see in the schematic is what is on the car no hidden switches and such.
Don't trust the schematics, just apply 12 V directly to A1(87) relay socket (once you remove the relay) or go straight to the pump connector.
If no run then pump is gone.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
ok thanks going to have to wait to check this out until i get all the snow shoved in the drive way and taken care of so i can push the car into the garage
right now 4 inches of snow on top of frozen ice from last nite car was towed back to the house they pushed it up against the side of the house enough room to open doors and get in and out but i couldn't even stick a 4x4 between the snow bank from where the plow usually shoves the snow to where the bumper is lol
so going ot have to try and get it in the garage or at least push out somehow
timing sucks
 

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Oh you're from Ohio, you guys get even more snow than us in Toronto. Now it snows but so far no accumulation, is just white "dust".
 

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Discussion Starter #18
you lucky Man yeah its bad hear
im even thinking if the snow has not melted by monday i might just take it to the shop and have them check it i know they gave me a price of 341 to change the Fuel Level Sensor like a month ago when i asked that was them gettign the part directly from the dealer and that would have been like 170 i think so the rest was labor
im guessing that the labor will probably be exactly the same if not maybe 10 minutes more in book time to replace the entire fuel pump
and im planning on getting the pump from Rock Auto that is the original one we had in our Seville at least the part numbers match private label but close out for 87 plus shipping
even if its not the problem just to have one on the shelf for that price in case something does go wrong
cant beat it
 

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1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
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It is actually more difficult (time consuming) to change just the sending unit than the whole pump assembly because you need to spend some 10 minutes to separate the old fuel sender unit from the fuel pump and swap it with the new one.
Anything more than $100 labor to replace the fuel pump in your car is a rip off.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
this is the Mechanic who rebuilt the engine in December
he charges 75 an hour and goes by books hours
not shop hours but he goes by the Mitchelles book hours

anyone know what the book time on the fuel pump for the seville is ?


sometimes i use this and the labor rates are usually pretty accurate for my area
http://repairpal.com/estimator


I should also mention he won't charge to double check my diagnostic if i say i think its the fuel pump from what i have checked out he will double check that to make sure thats really the issue before digging in and changing it to find out that its something els
how ever if he finds that is is something els he will charge for the time he had to diagnose it

but i don't mind that hes a fair mechanic and around Cleveland 75 dollars an hour is low for a professional insured shop
and his work is more than worth it

and the major thing is i trust him
and its hard to find a mechanic you can really trust
 
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